jfisher Wrote:a state school, like Texas might graduate 10,000+ students in one year, that's about 1/3 of our toatal living alumni. The smaller private schools just have to do a better job of marketing!!

You are a little light on the estimate. According to tu, as published at <a href='http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/stuprofile/studentbody.html' target='_blank'>http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/s...tudentbody.html</a> , tu has nearly 40,000 undergrads and over 11,000. Presuming that about 25% of the undergrads and 33 % of the graduate students will be given degrees in any given year, ut hands out about 13,600 pieces of paper each year.

By comparison, Rice (at <a href='http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~instresr/ricefacts/students.html)' target='_blank'>http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~instresr/ricefact.../students.html)</a> lists 2,822 undergrads and 1,948 graduate students, which given the smae analysis leads to about 1,350 sheepskins per year (or about a tenth of what tu has). Fortunately, Rice's attendance is nowhere near being only one tenth of tu's!

RiceDoc Wrote:Fortunately, Rice's attendance is nowhere near being only one tenth of tu's!

attendance at last Rice home game Game: ~8.1K
attendance at last UT home game: ~82k

i guess it depends on what 'nowhere near' means...

Birmingham may have a city population of about 240,000 ...however, our metro area as a whole is about 1.1 million. I realize that doesnt make our attendance look any better, but a fourth of this state's population is in the Birmingham area... many of those living here drive to Auburn and Tuscaloosa every Saturday.

OwlJacket Wrote:

RiceDoc Wrote:Fortunately, Rice's attendance is nowhere near being only one tenth of tu's!

attendance at last Rice home game Game: ~8.1K
attendance at last UT home game: ~82k

i guess it depends on what 'nowhere near' means...

I don't believe that 8.1k number is anywhere close to being accurate. Multiply by 2 and you would be in the ball park. Multiplying by pi would be overdoing it.

Even if your numbers were correct, they just go to show that statistics can be manipulated to show just about anything. I'd suggest that average attendances would be a far more appropriate comparison.

Just remember, in any discussion like this, there are lies, dang lies, and statistics!

RiceDoc Wrote:Even if your numbers were correct, they just go to show that statistics can be manipulated to show just about anything. I'd suggest that average attendances would be a far more appropriate comparison.

Just remember, in any discussion like this, there are lies, dang lies, and statistics!

That was my point :)

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I understand the infatuation with comparing attendance figures as a percentage of metropolitan area. I guess for some reason, 20% of everyone in the city will go to see the football game no matter what, which isn't the case.

Take the case of USM and Marshall. Let's make a list of things to do in middle-of-nowhere Mississippi or West Virginia on a Saturday night:

(1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

You can take this for what it is worth, but I've always had a lot of respect for what you've had to say here, but this was pathetic. You have lost a large measure of that respect with this attempt at humor.

Haven't been over here in a while, and thought I'd read up on some of our current/soon to depart conference mates. And right out of the shoot I come upon this thread. WOW.

I'm surprised at how sensitive the USM fans are about this whole market population/attendance thing. When another smaller market school was being considered for CUSA, Southern Miss fans were among the most vocal that they didn't bring a market or fan support. Now, for the very reason many Eagle fans didn't them, they are tauting as a strength of Southern Miss.

Don't misunderstand me, I used to be a huge supporter of Southern Miss, as I believe they, like Louisiana Tech, has literally the whole house of cards stacked against them, yet they fight on...believing that if given a chance, they can and will, succeed. Southern has benefitted greatly by its association with bigger market schools for a number of years, and their program definitely "holds its own". I still respect that view of USM, but during the expansion talk, many of their fans were not only opposed to Tech, but mean-spirited in some of their remarks about a school that in many ways, looks an awful lot like their own. I never really understood that, to be honest.

Okay, enough of the hurt feelings talk.

Interesting facts supporting Southern Miss' argument about themselves...
Yes, as a percent of population, USM is among the top in the league...existing OR future. And we'd be right there with you:

Ruston, LA population: 22,000
2004 average Tech attendance (in Ruston): ~21,500

I think the key to this discussion is the POTENTIAL attendance. And honestly, USM, like Tech, is more limited than the big metro schools. There IS a ceiling of potential....schools like USM or Tech will probably NEVER draw more than 40,000 to a game unless they get into a Bc$ conference and can use that huge increase in REVENUE to build a statewide following similar to their in-state competition.

And once again, this proves in my mind how similar Tech and USM really are...and how sad it was that the ONE school who could have and should have been a staunch ally of Tech's entry...was vehemently opposed to it, based in part, (ironically) to fan base/support.

chuckk3 Wrote:Haven't been over here in a while, and thought I'd read up on some of our current/soon to depart conference mates.  And right out of the shoot I come upon this thread.  WOW.

I'm surprised at how sensitive the USM fans are about this whole market population/attendance thing.  When another smaller market school was being considered for CUSA, Southern Miss fans were among the most vocal that they didn't bring a market or fan support.  Now, for the very reason many Eagle fans didn't them, they are tauting as a strength of Southern Miss. 

Don't misunderstand me, I used to be a huge supporter of Southern Miss, as I believe they, like Louisiana Tech, has literally the whole house of cards stacked against them, yet they fight on...believing that if given a chance, they can and will, succeed.  Southern has benefitted greatly by its association with bigger market schools for a number of years, and their program definitely "holds its own".  I still respect that view of USM, but during the expansion talk, many of their fans were not only opposed to Tech, but mean-spirited in some of their remarks about a school that in many ways, looks an awful lot like their own.  I never really understood that, to be honest.

Okay, enough of the hurt feelings talk.  

Interesting facts supporting Southern Miss' argument about themselves...
Yes, as a percent of population, USM is among the top in the league...existing OR future.  And we'd be right there with you:

Ruston, LA population:  22,000
2004 average Tech attendance (in Ruston):  ~21,500

I think the key to this discussion is the POTENTIAL attendance.  And honestly, USM, like Tech, is more limited than the big metro schools.  There IS a ceiling of potential....schools like USM or Tech will probably NEVER draw more than 40,000 to a game unless they get into a Bc$ conference and can use that huge increase in REVENUE to build a statewide following similar to their in-state competition.

And once again, this proves in my mind how similar Tech and USM really are...and how sad it was that the ONE school who could have and should have been a staunch ally of Tech's entry...was vehemently opposed to it, based in part, (ironically) to fan base/support.

No one here criticized USM's market. They criticized the fact Southern Miss only drew 28K for its home opener against Houston. ECU is also in a small market but has drawn praise for averaging 33K despite having such a bad team the last 2 years. Oh, and you failed to point out two differences between Tech and USM. USM does not have to apologize for its athletic facilities and also if Southern Miss had Fresno State visiting them they would have drawn better than the 18K Louisiana Tech got.

ccs178 Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I understand the infatuation with comparing attendance figures as a percentage of metropolitan area. I guess for some reason, 20% of everyone in the city will go to see the football game no matter what, which isn't the case.

Take the case of USM and Marshall. Let's make a list of things to do in middle-of-nowhere Mississippi or West Virginia on a Saturday night:

(1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

You can take this for what it is worth, but I've always had a lot of respect for what you've had to say here, but this was pathetic. You have lost a large measure of that respect with this attempt at humor.

Are those jiggling boobs in your avatar? Just checkin'

BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:

ccs178 Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I understand the infatuation with comparing attendance figures as a percentage of metropolitan area. I guess for some reason, 20% of everyone in the city will go to see the football game no matter what, which isn't the case.

Take the case of USM and Marshall. Let's make a list of things to do in middle-of-nowhere Mississippi or West Virginia on a Saturday night:

(1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

You can take this for what it is worth, but I've always had a lot of respect for what you've had to say here, but this was pathetic. You have lost a large measure of that respect with this attempt at humor.

Are those jiggling boobs in your avatar? Just checkin'

Why do you ask? Have you never seen any before?

Quote:e get 33K against Memphs, one of our biggest "rivalries", and that's with Memphis only bringing about 1,000 people.

This is only kinda true...normally we will bring 1,500 people to Southern...last year...after we beat Ole Miss we had 2,000 easy...and we would bring more...but we can't get any more tickets outta ya'll...trust me we travel VERY well...just ask any Ole Miss, Arky State, or UAB fan.

Go Tigers!!!
Drew

No, I find it quite ironic that you're complaining about a tasteless joke and you have boobs in your avatar. It's an interesting distinction regarding what you find disrespectful. I tend to enjoy tasteless humor so I'm not offended by either case. Apparently you find it OK to demean an entire gender but draw the line at inbred Mississippi jokes

BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:No, I find it quite ironic that you're complaining about a tasteless joke and you have boobs in your avatar. It's an interesting distinction regarding what you find disrespectful. I tend to enjoy tasteless humor so I'm not offended by either case. Apparently you find it OK to demean an entire gender but draw the line at inbred Mississippi jokes

:rolleyes:

A very lame attempt at trying to put it back on me. There's more to it than what was posted, but I don't have to justify anything to you. Shoo fly.

ccs178 Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I (1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

You can take this for what it is worth, but I've always had a lot of respect for what you've had to say here, but this was pathetic. You have lost a large measure of that respect with this attempt at humor.

I'm sorry you were unable to make it to the game.

I guess I'm supposed to apologize for my offensive humor. Screw that; it's not my fault you're hypersensitive, and evidently other people were amused.

Of course, if it ticks you off that much, I suppose you could just delete my post when it's your day to have the moderators' community set of 'rent-a-testicles'...

chuckk3 Wrote:Haven't been over here in a while, and thought I'd read up on some of our current/soon to depart conference mates. And right out of the shoot I come upon this thread. WOW.

I'm surprised at how sensitive the USM fans are about this whole market population/attendance thing. When another smaller market school was being considered for CUSA, Southern Miss fans were among the most vocal that they didn't bring a market or fan support. Now, for the very reason many Eagle fans didn't them, they are tauting as a strength of Southern Miss.

Don't misunderstand me, I used to be a huge supporter of Southern Miss, as I believe they, like Louisiana Tech, has literally the whole house of cards stacked against them, yet they fight on...believing that if given a chance, they can and will, succeed. Southern has benefitted greatly by its association with bigger market schools for a number of years, and their program definitely "holds its own". I still respect that view of USM, but during the expansion talk, many of their fans were not only opposed to Tech, but mean-spirited in some of their remarks about a school that in many ways, looks an awful lot like their own. I never really understood that, to be honest.

Okay, enough of the hurt feelings talk.

Interesting facts supporting Southern Miss' argument about themselves...
Yes, as a percent of population, USM is among the top in the league...existing OR future. And we'd be right there with you:

Ruston, LA population: 22,000
2004 average Tech attendance (in Ruston): ~21,500

I think the key to this discussion is the POTENTIAL attendance. And honestly, USM, like Tech, is more limited than the big metro schools. There IS a ceiling of potential....schools like USM or Tech will probably NEVER draw more than 40,000 to a game unless they get into a Bc$ conference and can use that huge increase in REVENUE to build a statewide following similar to their in-state competition.

And once again, this proves in my mind how similar Tech and USM really are...and how sad it was that the ONE school who could have and should have been a staunch ally of Tech's entry...was vehemently opposed to it, based in part, (ironically) to fan base/support.

You state you havent been over here for awhile so lets remind you again, regardless of what you say, there is absolutely NO similarities between the USM and La Tech athletic programs. USM raises near $3,000,000 annually through its Eagle Club, La Tech is around $300,000 from its Champs Club. USM fans have PAID for their new athletic field house of some $10,000,000, a new $100,000 artificial turf just installed, a $1,000,000 jumbotron within past 5yr, a $500,000 satellite uplink van, $1,000,000 field house at the baseball stadium, a new $500,000 ladies softball field, a $1,000, 000 track and field arena, among others. La Tech, in same time frame, has built a $2,000,000 field house on which THEY STILL OWE $500,000. USM has more than 23,000 season ticket holders in football and La Tech, although they never announce theirs, is rumored to have issued about 4,000, half of which were free (buy one-get one free). USM (as confirmed even while watching them on TV at home, is averaging over 28,000 whereas La Tech is under 15,000 (regardless of what they say-they have been on TV a couple of times too and pictures dont lie). If you want to compare yoursef to other programs look 30mi to your East (ULM) and l50mi to SW (ULL)-there you can find similarities (each of La Tech, ULM, ULL stay afloat ONLY because of state support which is about $2.5 million each).

OwlJacket Wrote:

ccs178 Wrote:

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I (1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

You can take this for what it is worth, but I've always had a lot of respect for what you've had to say here, but this was pathetic. You have lost a large measure of that respect with this attempt at humor.

I'm sorry you were unable to make it to the game.

I guess I'm supposed to apologize for my offensive humor. Screw that; it's not my fault you're hypersensitive, and evidently other people were amused.

Of course, if it ticks you off that much, I suppose you could just delete my post when it's your day to have the moderators' community set of 'rent-a-testicles'...

I didn't go to the game. My cross-country USM football trip was for the California and Tulane games.

I'm Hyper-sensative? Someone mentions Rice's attendance figures and you make jokes about people in WV and MS sleeping with their sisters. Oh yeah, nice even retort there.

I never asked for an apology. Unfortunately, now I can't expect to believe that what you have to say to be any better than Nugget's Ghost or 3rdWardEagle.

It wasn't a lack of testicles that kept me from deleting your post. It was reported to the mods and that alone gave me the right to delete it. I left it there so everybody could see your lack of taste and originality. It is a prime example of not being able to debate effectively or constructively.

OwlJacket Wrote:I'm not sure I understand the infatuation with comparing attendance figures as a percentage of metropolitan area. I guess for some reason, 20% of everyone in the city will go to see the football game no matter what, which isn't the case.

Take the case of USM and Marshall. Let's make a list of things to do in middle-of-nowhere Mississippi or West Virginia on a Saturday night:

(1) Go to the local University football game
(2) Your sister

Makes you wonder where those other 25K people were.

This now give me the "RIGHT and free reign" to "BASH" RICE any way I want.

Watch out.................

OWLJACKET your a tasteless SOB FUKER

ccs178 Wrote:I'm Hyper-sensative? Someone mentions Rice's attendance figures and you make jokes about people in WV and MS sleeping with their sisters. Oh yeah, nice even retort there

The debate was never about Rice's crappy attendance figures. It was someone stating how wonderful USM and Marshall are because they have small metropolitan areas yet still can draw people to the game.

Whereas I do not honestly believe that people from Mississippi and WV routinely practice incest , even if they do, it's really none of my business (though the comment can also be taken to read that they weren't all having sex with their own sisters, just the reader's sister, a single individual getting alot of action). There is certainly an element of truth to the 'being the only game in town' argument. Again, it's not the only factor; that why these arguments based on a single-factor are pointless.

Quote: It wasn't a lack of testicles that kept me from deleting your post. It was reported to the mods and that alone gave me the right to delete it. I left it there so everybody could see your lack of taste and originality. It is a prime example of not being able to debate effectively or constructively.

As a mod, you're allowed to delete, move, edit whatever you deem to be inappropriate - my post above certainly met that criteria, with or without outrage from other board members. I was actually kinda curious what it would take to get something moved or deleted, since lately there has been a considerable amount of inflammatory tripe that moderators don't move, and even contribute to - the attack wasn't on you since of course individual problems with moderators are supposed to be resolved through private channels. I was venting at the collective graduates of the Shane school of board management.

As for effective and constructive debate; this implies a level of intellectual competence of those actually involved in the debate. There is a sizable number of vocal posters on this board who obviously lack the mental capacity for intelligent discourse, thus I choose not to waste my time with it anymore.

I dont care what you believe your Attend figures are less than stellar and the product you put on the field is usually too.

Attend Rank: 92
Attend Avg: 17,401
Attend High: 28726 (Rice-Houston)
Attend Low: 8,109

Why 2 teams in Houston can't draw more then 28K is beyond me. This should have been atleast 38-40 if not more.

Get it together or Drop football or go I-AA. No one here wants to see a C-USA team draw 5000 fans sorry.

And again for your tasteless humor, you get no more respect from me or support. Screw you and the Owl you flew in on. I have 2 sisters and yes Im orig from WV and I wouldn't touch them for the World.


Owl'Fn'Jacket

HerdZoned Wrote:I dont care what you believe your Attend figures are less than stellar and the product you put on the field is usually too.

Attend Rank: 92
Attend Avg: 17,401
Attend High: 28726 (Rice-Houston)
Attend Low: 8,109

Why 2 teams in Houston can't draw more then 28K is beyond me. This should have been atleast 38-40 if not more.

Get it together or Drop football or go I-AA. No one here wants to see a C-USA team draw 5000 fans sorry.

And again for your tasteless humor, you get no more respect from me or support. Screw you and the Owl you flew in on. I have 2 sisters and yes Im orig from WV and I wouldn't touch them for the World.


Owl'Fn'Jacket

Well, at least they are competitive. The bad thing would be if they struggled on the field and at the gate.