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Wes Miller - UNCG
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PGJMU2 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
(03-16-2018 06:23 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:03 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  yes, the guard we had at JMU who everyone thought sucked, (except me) until he transfered to UNC and played significant minutes in their championship year.

UNCG - head coach

2018 - 25-10,(15-3) No. 1 seed, win soco, NCAA - takes Gonzaga to the wire
2017 - 25-10 (14-4)No. 1 seed, lost in champ of Soco, NIT 1st round loss
2016 - 15-19 (10-8)CBI, 8 seed, soco 1st round loss
2015 11-22, (6-12) 8 seed, soco 2nd round loss
2014 14-18, (7-9)play in game,soco 1st round loss
2013 9-22, (6-12) 6th
2012 11-11 (10-5) 1st - interim coach

First 5 years
- it took Wes Miller 5 years to get to the 1 seed and the NIT
- 4 losing seasons before the breakthrough in 2016-17
- didnt get out of second round of soco for 5 years

last 2 years
- 25-10 both years
- 1 seed both years
- NCAA and NIT

probably a hot coaching name and will probably be moving on from UNCG if not this year, very soon.

Can we really judge Lou on his record his first two years?

if lou were to go, 9-22, 14-18, 11-22, & 15-19 - how many on here would be calling for him to be fired? If LR goes 11-22 next year, DM2, Hart & team will be calling for LR's dismissal. How many would be calling for patience? How about very few.

How did that patience you called for for Dillard work out?

Dean Keener lost his first four seasons too. Did we cut him lose too early?

For the record I liked Wes too and wished he had stayed, but the reason he transferred is because he was upset Dillard was returning.

You liked Dillard, and you liked Wes, but Wes thought Dillard should have been released earlier - as did I.

I'd argue the patience we had with Dillard is what killed interest & momentum in JMU men's basketball.


In Sherm's first 3 years, he went:

1998 11-16 - tied 5th
1999 16-11 - tied 4th
2000 20-9 - tied 1st

He was getting looks at other jobs and we extended him. He was hit with a rash of injuries and we slipped.

2001 12-17
2002 14-15
2003 13-17
2002 7-21

Beginning of his tenure was better than you guys want to give him credit. That early success, being an alum, the extension and the influence of DM2's buddy kept Sherm a year or two too long.

No one was arguing keener should have been kept.

Good coaches are hard to find. I would rather keep a coach a year too long then to let a good coach go a year too early.

After 4 seasons the browns / now ravens fired who may be the best coach ever, Belichick. There are hundreds of examples of where patience pays off, Coach K being the best example.

Many thought Mickey Mathews should have been fired. We won the NC the next year.
03-18-2018 12:37 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
Leelou is the best example of why good businessmen should not be making coaching decisions for ADs. He threatened to pull his support if Dillard was fired. At the time, he was one of the few large donors JMU had so they listened. The Leelou Alumni Center was built while Sherm was coach.

The rumor for years from Dukeman is Leelou will stroke a large check if Bourne is let go yet Bourne won a major AD award last year and has been nominated for another one this year.

I appreciate Mr. Leelou’s generosity to his university but I can’t say I support his desire for change if it is true and he sure was wrong about Sherm too.
03-19-2018 08:35 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
(03-18-2018 12:37 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 06:23 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:03 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  yes, the guard we had at JMU who everyone thought sucked, (except me) until he transfered to UNC and played significant minutes in their championship year.

UNCG - head coach

2018 - 25-10,(15-3) No. 1 seed, win soco, NCAA - takes Gonzaga to the wire
2017 - 25-10 (14-4)No. 1 seed, lost in champ of Soco, NIT 1st round loss
2016 - 15-19 (10-8)CBI, 8 seed, soco 1st round loss
2015 11-22, (6-12) 8 seed, soco 2nd round loss
2014 14-18, (7-9)play in game,soco 1st round loss
2013 9-22, (6-12) 6th
2012 11-11 (10-5) 1st - interim coach

First 5 years
- it took Wes Miller 5 years to get to the 1 seed and the NIT
- 4 losing seasons before the breakthrough in 2016-17
- didnt get out of second round of soco for 5 years

last 2 years
- 25-10 both years
- 1 seed both years
- NCAA and NIT

probably a hot coaching name and will probably be moving on from UNCG if not this year, very soon.

Can we really judge Lou on his record his first two years?

if lou were to go, 9-22, 14-18, 11-22, & 15-19 - how many on here would be calling for him to be fired? If LR goes 11-22 next year, DM2, Hart & team will be calling for LR's dismissal. How many would be calling for patience? How about very few.

How did that patience you called for for Dillard work out?

Dean Keener lost his first four seasons too. Did we cut him lose too early?

For the record I liked Wes too and wished he had stayed, but the reason he transferred is because he was upset Dillard was returning.

You liked Dillard, and you liked Wes, but Wes thought Dillard should have been released earlier - as did I.

I'd argue the patience we had with Dillard is what killed interest & momentum in JMU men's basketball.


In Sherm's first 3 years, he went:

1998 11-16 - tied 5th
1999 16-11 - tied 4th
2000 20-9 - tied 1st

He was getting looks at other jobs and we extended him. He was hit with a rash of injuries and we slipped.

2001 12-17
2002 14-15
2003 13-17
2002 7-21

Beginning of his tenure was better than you guys want to give him credit. That early success, being an alum, the extension and the influence of DM2's buddy kept Sherm a year or two too long.

No one was arguing keener should have been kept.

Good coaches are hard to find. I would rather keep a coach a year too long then to let a good coach go a year too early.

After 4 seasons the browns / now ravens fired who may be the best coach ever, Belichick. There are hundreds of examples of where patience pays off, Coach K being the best example.

Many thought Mickey Mathews should have been fired. We won the NC the next year.

Yes, you did not think Mickey Matthews was as good as Sherman Dillard as per our wager. 03-thumbsup

The difference is MM won the Yankee conference his first year with 4 different QBs and was COA in the conference. His second year he had youngest and least talented team in JMU history due to prior coach. Third year the team played well on both lines but could not hold on to the ball. Year four was Clayton's tragedy.

If losing is your Key Performance Indicator there are likely 50 great candidates out there every year.

I disagree with you. Hiring a coach is a crap shoot and is an inexact science. Keeping a coach too long is a killer.....
03-20-2018 03:24 AM
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PGJMU2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
(03-20-2018 03:24 AM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-18-2018 12:37 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 06:23 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:03 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  yes, the guard we had at JMU who everyone thought sucked, (except me) until he transfered to UNC and played significant minutes in their championship year.

UNCG - head coach

2018 - 25-10,(15-3) No. 1 seed, win soco, NCAA - takes Gonzaga to the wire
2017 - 25-10 (14-4)No. 1 seed, lost in champ of Soco, NIT 1st round loss
2016 - 15-19 (10-8)CBI, 8 seed, soco 1st round loss
2015 11-22, (6-12) 8 seed, soco 2nd round loss
2014 14-18, (7-9)play in game,soco 1st round loss
2013 9-22, (6-12) 6th
2012 11-11 (10-5) 1st - interim coach

First 5 years
- it took Wes Miller 5 years to get to the 1 seed and the NIT
- 4 losing seasons before the breakthrough in 2016-17
- didnt get out of second round of soco for 5 years

last 2 years
- 25-10 both years
- 1 seed both years
- NCAA and NIT

probably a hot coaching name and will probably be moving on from UNCG if not this year, very soon.

Can we really judge Lou on his record his first two years?

if lou were to go, 9-22, 14-18, 11-22, & 15-19 - how many on here would be calling for him to be fired? If LR goes 11-22 next year, DM2, Hart & team will be calling for LR's dismissal. How many would be calling for patience? How about very few.

How did that patience you called for for Dillard work out?

Dean Keener lost his first four seasons too. Did we cut him lose too early?

For the record I liked Wes too and wished he had stayed, but the reason he transferred is because he was upset Dillard was returning.

You liked Dillard, and you liked Wes, but Wes thought Dillard should have been released earlier - as did I.

I'd argue the patience we had with Dillard is what killed interest & momentum in JMU men's basketball.


In Sherm's first 3 years, he went:

1998 11-16 - tied 5th
1999 16-11 - tied 4th
2000 20-9 - tied 1st

He was getting looks at other jobs and we extended him. He was hit with a rash of injuries and we slipped.

2001 12-17
2002 14-15
2003 13-17
2002 7-21

Beginning of his tenure was better than you guys want to give him credit. That early success, being an alum, the extension and the influence of DM2's buddy kept Sherm a year or two too long.

No one was arguing keener should have been kept.

Good coaches are hard to find. I would rather keep a coach a year too long then to let a good coach go a year too early.

After 4 seasons the browns / now ravens fired who may be the best coach ever, Belichick. There are hundreds of examples of where patience pays off, Coach K being the best example.

Many thought Mickey Mathews should have been fired. We won the NC the next year.

Yes, you did not think Mickey Matthews was as good as Sherman Dillard as per our wager. 03-thumbsup

The difference is MM won the Yankee conference his first year with 4 different QBs and was COA in the conference. His second year he had youngest and least talented team in JMU history due to prior coach. Third year the team played well on both lines but could not hold on to the ball. Year four was Clayton's tragedy.

If losing is your Key Performance Indicator there are likely 50 great candidates out there every year.

I disagree with you. Hiring a coach is a crap shoot and is an inexact science. Keeping a coach too long is a killer.....

what is letting a coach go to soon after making the investment?

so you would have fired Wes in his 5th season after going 15-19 and 8th in the SoCon? Firing Wes at that point would have been a killer. You would have started a rebuild and missed out on two 25 win seasons and first place finishes. and the cycle continues.
03-20-2018 06:50 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
I think 4 years is fair- it's a full recruiting cycle. You need to show improvement and signs of turning things around throughout. You need to show an ability to recruit good kids, retain them, and develop their games. In this case their patience paid off. With Miller they did show a lot of patience and it paid off- more than most programs would have or should IMO.
03-20-2018 06:56 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
(03-20-2018 06:50 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 03:24 AM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-18-2018 12:37 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 06:23 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:03 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  yes, the guard we had at JMU who everyone thought sucked, (except me) until he transfered to UNC and played significant minutes in their championship year.

UNCG - head coach

2018 - 25-10,(15-3) No. 1 seed, win soco, NCAA - takes Gonzaga to the wire
2017 - 25-10 (14-4)No. 1 seed, lost in champ of Soco, NIT 1st round loss
2016 - 15-19 (10-8)CBI, 8 seed, soco 1st round loss
2015 11-22, (6-12) 8 seed, soco 2nd round loss
2014 14-18, (7-9)play in game,soco 1st round loss
2013 9-22, (6-12) 6th
2012 11-11 (10-5) 1st - interim coach

First 5 years
- it took Wes Miller 5 years to get to the 1 seed and the NIT
- 4 losing seasons before the breakthrough in 2016-17
- didnt get out of second round of soco for 5 years

last 2 years
- 25-10 both years
- 1 seed both years
- NCAA and NIT

probably a hot coaching name and will probably be moving on from UNCG if not this year, very soon.

Can we really judge Lou on his record his first two years?

if lou were to go, 9-22, 14-18, 11-22, & 15-19 - how many on here would be calling for him to be fired? If LR goes 11-22 next year, DM2, Hart & team will be calling for LR's dismissal. How many would be calling for patience? How about very few.

How did that patience you called for for Dillard work out?

Dean Keener lost his first four seasons too. Did we cut him lose too early?

For the record I liked Wes too and wished he had stayed, but the reason he transferred is because he was upset Dillard was returning.

You liked Dillard, and you liked Wes, but Wes thought Dillard should have been released earlier - as did I.

I'd argue the patience we had with Dillard is what killed interest & momentum in JMU men's basketball.


In Sherm's first 3 years, he went:

1998 11-16 - tied 5th
1999 16-11 - tied 4th
2000 20-9 - tied 1st

He was getting looks at other jobs and we extended him. He was hit with a rash of injuries and we slipped.

2001 12-17
2002 14-15
2003 13-17
2002 7-21

Beginning of his tenure was better than you guys want to give him credit. That early success, being an alum, the extension and the influence of DM2's buddy kept Sherm a year or two too long.

No one was arguing keener should have been kept.

Good coaches are hard to find. I would rather keep a coach a year too long then to let a good coach go a year too early.

After 4 seasons the browns / now ravens fired who may be the best coach ever, Belichick. There are hundreds of examples of where patience pays off, Coach K being the best example.

Many thought Mickey Mathews should have been fired. We won the NC the next year.

Yes, you did not think Mickey Matthews was as good as Sherman Dillard as per our wager. :thumbsup:

The difference is MM won the Yankee conference his first year with 4 different QBs and was COA in the conference. His second year he had youngest and least talented team in JMU history due to prior coach. Third year the team played well on both lines but could not hold on to the ball. Year four was Clayton's tragedy.

If losing is your Key Performance Indicator there are likely 50 great candidates out there every year.

I disagree with you. Hiring a coach is a crap shoot and is an inexact science. Keeping a coach too long is a killer.....

what is letting a coach go to soon after making the investment?

so you would have fired Wes in his 5th season after going 15-19 and 8th in the SoCon? Firing Wes at that point would have been a killer. You would have started a rebuild and missed out on two 25 win seasons and first place finishes. and the cycle continues.

I don’t know if I would of wanted him to stay after 4 years. Every case Is different. How was his game coaching? Had he recently recruited a lot of solid recruits to build with? We’re injuries the major factor of the results?

Year 4 of a common 5 year deal is a key decision point. It’s not good for recruiting entering the final year of your contract without extending. Also not great to extend someone who has lost their first four years.

There would need to be a lot of positive footnotes if you lose your first 4 years in my opinion.

Using your same arguement if a CAA coach makes the 2nd round of the NCAA in each of his first 4 years but does not win a game the next 3 years, should you not retain coaches who start off with 4 great years?

Indecisiveness and giving too many opportunities is what can and did kill a program.
03-20-2018 11:56 AM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
It is an art and not a science.

Accountants are typically not good at art.
03-20-2018 12:22 PM
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Centdukesfan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
but apparently they are pretty good at art unless its basketball art. We've had some amazing hires at jmu over the last decade.
03-20-2018 01:53 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
Yes we have had some amazing hires but there are those who choose to only focus on the one negative rather than see the full picture.
03-20-2018 09:56 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
(03-20-2018 09:56 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Yes we have had some amazing hires but there are those who choose to only focus on the one negative rather than see the full picture.

You don't have to fix what's not broken. Do we need to do much more than say Coach O is doing his job well or Shelley Klaes-Bawcombe is doing an outstanding job. That's some pretty boring stuff to talk about. We are here to fix the broken pieces, have you not realized that? Even the MH talk dies after a few comments, we all know he's the best football coach in the country, what else is there to say? I guess the only thing that concerns me is that I want Lou to be very successful at JMU and the discussion on here sure wouldn't make him feel very secure if he were to read this stuff.
03-22-2018 03:47 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
Or players or recruits or players and recruits family members. No worries I don't think what is said here matters. Just some folks blowing off steam. Thus far there have been hundreds of announced transfers but none for JMU, there have been coaching changes (assistants too) but none from JMU. JMU has continued to recruit and sign players. To me it looks like a group that is bought in.

That is part of why the prior coach was fired and an attribute that the hiring committee believed Lou Rowe could deliver on. He walks the walk and talks the talk. He cares about JMU, the players and the program. I'm sure he takes note of the negativity and understands it. Just my two cents but you have bought in players and coaches that then develop and mature, the players are talented- I think the losses start to turn into wins.
03-22-2018 06:48 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Wes Miller - UNCG
If GOAT HCLR is so bad, why aren't the players exiting en mass? Very good question.
03-22-2018 07:57 AM
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