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All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

especially since technically the AAC is the Old Big East in the NCAA's eyes. The New Big East is technically a new conference.
03-20-2018 12:05 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #22
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
Well, the Big East from the 2013-14 season to the present has 28 bids, so feel free to do the math. 03-wink
03-20-2018 03:29 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #23
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMO, the current Big East bought that with their purchase of the Big East name. But it is a weird situation, so if you want to go ahead and credit the AAC with the pre-2014 Big East bids, I don't think anyone would object.
03-20-2018 07:58 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-20-2018 07:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMO, the current Big East bought that with their purchase of the Big East name. But it is a weird situation, so if you want to go ahead and credit the AAC with the pre-2014 Big East bids, I don't think anyone would object.

I would add, the New Big East has three of the four founding members of the Old Big East (PC, GU, and SJU but not Syracuse) and two of the four other charter members (SHU and VU but not BC or UConn). Although the AAC is a legal continuation of the Old Big East, it has only one of its charter members (UConn) and only two other members (Cincy and USF) that were ever basketball playing members of the Old Big East, and each of them for only 8 years. Obviously, though, this is just a hypothetical exercise to measure conference success through the years and folks are free to organize the information in any way they think is useful.
03-20-2018 11:34 AM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-20-2018 07:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMO, the current Big East bought that with their purchase of the Big East name. But it is a weird situation, so if you want to go ahead and credit the AAC with the pre-2014 Big East bids, I don't think anyone would object.

I would object. In the period of 1985-1989, when the Big East was establishing itself as a basketball powerhouse, six of nine teams went to the Final Four. Not to the NCAA tournament itself, but to the Final Four, 67% of the league. Those six teams were Georgetown, St John's, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, and Syracuse. Only UCONN, Pitt and Rutgers didn't go. Of those six teams in the Final Four all remain in the BE with the exception of Syracuse. To suggest Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa have more of a right to those records than the founding members, who are still in the BE, is ridiculous.

Had it gone to court in a fight for the name, I'm not sure who would have prevailed. But you can go to Atlantic City and see a group calling themselves the Temptations because they have a legal right to the name, but everyone knows they're not the real thing, with only one original member. Everyone knows that the BE name is where it belongs, with it's rightful owner. The only former member with a complaint would be UCONN. Yet even there, who knows, it won't be all that surprising if they're back home within the next several years, instead of the geographical monstrosity they're in now.
03-20-2018 01:20 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-20-2018 01:20 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 07:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMO, the current Big East bought that with their purchase of the Big East name. But it is a weird situation, so if you want to go ahead and credit the AAC with the pre-2014 Big East bids, I don't think anyone would object.

I would object.

To be clear, when I say I wouldn't mind if the AAC claimed pre-2014 Big East bids as part of their legacy, i meant "as well", not that i think they should be able to claim them instead of the new Big East.

I don't mind of both the current Big East and the AAC both claim those bids. I would never agree that the AAC should have them and not the current Big East. If only one can have them, it should be the current Big East.
03-20-2018 06:30 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: All-time NCAA tournament bids (B1G, ACC, SEC, PAC)
(03-20-2018 11:34 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 07:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 11:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 06:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 05:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full tally of bids based on membership at the time. Data culled from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/

Good work.

At first glance, it seems weird that a relatively new conference like the Big East could have roughly the same number of bids as other Power conferences that have been around for twice as long or more, but we have to remember that it wasn't until 5 years before the Big East came into being that the tournament was opened up to "at large" bids in a serious way, before then, conferences would get only a single bid.

I do think it's a bit weird that Big East (2014-Present) gets to keep the bids from Big East (1979-2013) but The American doesn't. Both conferences claim May 19th, 1979 as their founding date, ya know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMO, the current Big East bought that with their purchase of the Big East name. But it is a weird situation, so if you want to go ahead and credit the AAC with the pre-2014 Big East bids, I don't think anyone would object.

I would add, the New Big East has three of the four founding members of the Old Big East (PC, GU, and SJU but not Syracuse) and two of the four other charter members (SHU and VU but not BC or UConn). Although the AAC is a legal continuation of the Old Big East, it has only one of its charter members (UConn) and only two other members (Cincy and USF) that were ever basketball playing members of the Old Big East, and each of them for only 8 years. Obviously, though, this is just a hypothetical exercise to measure conference success through the years and folks are free to organize the information in any way they think is useful.

Yes, there clearly is more of the "lineal" soul of the 1979 - 2013 Big East, it's DNA, in the current Big East than in the AAC.

Heck, sadly, there is more of that lineage in the current ACC than in the AAC. It's the ACC that is the reason that DNA has been split among three conferences these days, arguably four if we throw in WVU in the Big 12.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2018 06:32 PM by quo vadis.)
03-20-2018 06:32 PM
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