(03-06-2018 12:44 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 11:41 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Thoughts on anyone? As difficult as it would be to get a big to come in and contribute, it would be even more difficult to expect a transfer, even a talented one, to come in and skillfully run Shaver's 4-out offense from the point guard position. I'm all for talented grad transfers, but I'm not sure how much a PG would bring with only a summer in the system. I guess we can see what happens.

No clue....just hope we don't settle for next year being a step back and development year to get to the following year. An experienced PG transfer would still have a better chance to effectively execute Tony's offense and push Luke in practice than one of our freshmen. If the right opportunity arose, I hope we'd seize it. Would expect that Luke learned alot from David this year. Staff knows whether he's ready/poised to emerge.
David eliminated opponent ability to press us for the past three years. That was a huge, unsung asset.

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Cohn has expressed interest into getting into coaching. Why not start as a grad assistant right here? That will help move Loewe along.

(03-06-2018 12:38 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 11:56 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 11:36 AM)Rocco Wrote:  My wish for next year is that Shaver attend a Tony Bennett basketball clinic over the summer. We've got six seasons of evidence that suggests you can't win the conference without a little defense, no matter how well you run the offense.

Tribe needs a guy who can come off the bench and make energy plays- hustle for loose balls, set screens, deliver hard fouls (seriously, put Riller on his butt a couple times and see if he keeps shooting arrows). They didn't have guy on the bench this year and it cost them.

I think, unfortunately, that David and Connor were simply not built for that need, and Matt lacked the experience. I'd like to believe we have some guys in the pipeline, Luke, Chase, Quinn, who will allow the staff to move the defensive dial, with Nate and Justin. If they don't, then Tony will never reach the goal. Northeastern put on a clinic last night with respect to defensive rotation. Best player on the floor, deepest bench, best shooting teams have all been tried by Tony, but didn't work. It's long been time for defense.

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You can't really ask starters who have to play 36-37 minutes to do something like that because you can't risk them getting hurt, picking up a tech or wearing out. Plus as you said none of them really have that mentality. They need someone who has grown up with a Patrick Beverley poster in his room. Shaver only trusted 7 guys this year. I can't really fault him but defense suffers when guys have to conserve energy due to lack of depth.

At this point we can take it as an article of faith the offense will be good. From the 2012-13 season to present they've had the most efficient offense in the conference every year save last season (when UNCW was a dang car shredder on offense). If they can find a way to be average defensively that will be enough. Defense comes down to energy and desire. They made free throws a priority and it worked.

The improvement on FTs was absolutely astounding. Would be incredible if there is similar effort made this off season.

If you look at the progress that Knight/Pierce made from their freshman year to sophomore year, it shows a lot of hard work, long nights at the gym and a desire to get better. I look for them both to take big steps next year.

(03-06-2018 11:36 AM)Rocco Wrote:  My wish for next year is that Shaver attend a Tony Bennett basketball clinic over the summer. We've got six seasons of evidence that suggests you can't win the conference without a little defense, no matter how well you run the offense.

Tribe needs a guy who can come off the bench and make energy plays- hustle for loose balls, set screens, deliver hard fouls (seriously, put Riller on his butt a couple times and see if he keeps shooting arrows). They didn't have guy on the bench this year and it cost them.

This post has two completely different themes. It’s almost schizophrenic but I agree with the second half of it. The validity of the second half makes moot the first half unless the poster is implying we should have RECRUITED the player in question. In that case attending a Bennett coaching clinic wouldn’t help.

The 83 team had Strayhorn. I always thought we had our best shot recently with Tarpey. These are athletes that can win 50/50 balls, create steals and lock down opponents.

We did not have that this year. Pierce has come a long way and he can be special on defense. Knight has been hindered by foul trouble and lack of a backup. He could become a defender who clogs the lane.

Loewe appears to have a defensive mindset. I am hoping that the fifth starter is a guard/forward with some height and defensive chops. (In a way Burchfield and Milon were redundant this year - two great shooters but not great athletes. I am assuming Milon will still start.)

It is not a waste of time to scan the Hofstra board. Their fans are livid over their defense. A lot the blame is going on Mihalic but others have pointed how frail their guards are. We have had the same problem. One of the beauties of going to a tournament is getting to see the teams at the same time. The better defensive teams have better athletes at guard, just as quick but with more size and bulk.

(03-06-2018 10:33 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 11:36 AM)Rocco Wrote:  My wish for next year is that Shaver attend a Tony Bennett basketball clinic over the summer. We've got six seasons of evidence that suggests you can't win the conference without a little defense, no matter how well you run the offense.

Tribe needs a guy who can come off the bench and make energy plays- hustle for loose balls, set screens, deliver hard fouls (seriously, put Riller on his butt a couple times and see if he keeps shooting arrows). They didn't have guy on the bench this year and it cost them.

This post has two completely different themes. It’s almost schizophrenic but I agree with the second half of it. The validity of the second half makes moot the first half unless the poster is implying we should have RECRUITED the player in question. In that case attending a Bennett coaching clinic wouldn’t help.

"Send him to a Tony Bennett coaching clinic" is tongue in cheek. It's not meant to be taken literally. The point is that the team needs to get better defensively, and we have 15 seasons of evidence at W&M that defense isn't a priority for Shaver. Defense is something that can be taught to some degree, but you have to actually have coaches to teach it. It makes way more sense to recruit shooters and try to teach them how to play defense than to recruit defensive guys with no offensive games and try to teach them how to shoot.

I hesitate to bring this up because I have been very anti CBI/CIT post season play in past seasons.

I may feel differently this year because of this team's effort, chemistry and youth. If Huge can find the money and the players want it, I think we should jump this year, especially if chunks of playing time are given to Luke and Jihar. The situation warrants it, and I believe many in the W&M community are not ready to stop watching this team. Home games would be well supported this year, and I think this team could go on a nice run, and gain alot of added development for our five sophs and freshmen.

CBI may be the stronger tournament, but CBSSportsNetwork is televising many of the CIT games, including the semis and final, and is streaming all of the games.

CIT field so far: Marshall, Liberty, Austin Peay, Abilene Christian.

Loyola-Chicago fans, who won the MVC and punched their NCAA ticket at 28-5 this year, believe their winning the 2015 CBI started their rise to this year's success as the third ranked midmajor behind Gonzaga and St. Mary's.

Certainly up to the players, and the ability to finance it, but I say go for it!!
I think next season would see returns on the investment, especially if we hope to contend with Charleston and Northeastern next year. It, also, sends an important message to our young talent that the school is going to support what they are bringing to the program, besides being a deserved bonus for our outgoing guys.


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if Huge can somehow come up with the necessary cash to pay to keep our team playing, then she should funnel those dollars to the coaching staff and the recruiting budget

(03-07-2018 08:33 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  I hesitate to bring this up because I have been very anti CBI/CIT post season play in past seasons.

I may feel differently this year because of this team's effort, chemistry and youth. If Huge can find the money and the players want it, I think we should jump this year


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If we make the resources available for it (which we should), should be whatever Shaver wants to do. If he feels that it's most helpful to go to the CBI/CIT I'm all for it, if he thinks it's better to go to the recruiting/assistant budget then great.

(03-06-2018 11:36 AM)Rocco Wrote:  Tribe needs a guy who can come off the bench and make energy plays- hustle for loose balls, set screens, deliver hard fouls (seriously, put Riller on his butt a couple times and see if he keeps shooting arrows). They didn't have guy on the bench this year and it cost them.

In the past, Tony has really stayed away from that style of play. Personally, I love it but I'd be surprised to see that directive come out of this coaching staff

(03-07-2018 09:52 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 11:36 AM)Rocco Wrote:  Tribe needs a guy who can come off the bench and make energy plays- hustle for loose balls, set screens, deliver hard fouls (seriously, put Riller on his butt a couple times and see if he keeps shooting arrows). They didn't have guy on the bench this year and it cost them.

In the past, Tony has really stayed away from that style of play. Personally, I love it but I'd be surprised to see that directive come out of this coaching staff

Quinn Blair may be tailor made for that role with the football mentality he'll bring.


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Re playing in one of those artificial post-season tourneys, Shaver has always left it up to the players...
and every year the players vote it down almost unanimously.

I asked Daniel Dixon about it at the bb dinner last April and he said the players wanted to get back to their studies. I don't know about this year--it might be different although I suspect not--but academics appears to be the big reason they don't go.

Looking at the schools thus far signing up for tourneys that someone mentioned--Abilene Christian, Liberty,
Austin Peay and Marshall: these are not exactly bastions of academic rigor and I doubt if the players get a vote there anyway.

Did you even think about your last sentence before you wrote it? We played Marshall this year, and have played Liberty in the past. Both schools played us at Kaplan, which most schools won't do. For once, maybe we should think a little less about ourselves, put our academic snobbery in the closet, and do something for the greater good in college basketball.

And when one of the Ivies / Patriot schools plays in this event, get back to us about how this event is "beneath" academic blue bloods like W&M.

As for the characterization of the post-season tourneys as "artificial", what in God's name are you talking about? Yes, they don't make money, but "artificial"?

Which post-season tournament "tries out" rules changes?

Which post-season tournament puts Duke and the school with the artificial classes (talk about artificial) in North Carolina every fricking year (or so it seems)?

Which post-season tournaments have a veritable ban on at large teams from all but the high majors?

The NCAA is corrupt. The NCAA tournament and NIT selection / seeding / hosting process is corrupt. Hypocrisy on parade.

At least the CIT / CBI are honest about what they are.

A little less hypocrisy and a little more honesty is a good thing.

Back in the day, the NIT was the #1 tournament.

Eventually, the NIT was surpassed by the NCAA.

Eventually, the NCAA took over the NIT.

Then the CIT/CBI were born.

Currently, the order is NCAA, then NIT, then CIT/CBI.

History has proven that that order is not etched in stone. But to elevate the CIT/CBI, schools have to play in it ... sort of like a peaceful revolution against the tyranny of the NCAA/NIT. Get my drift?

As the Vegas tourney indicated last year, there has to be a demand for teams to keep playing. Counting the NIT, there are 100 teams in the NCAA/NIT tourneys. If you are not selected for either of those, then there are 48 spots for the CIT and CBI. My only problem with it is some of the teams in it are way below the top 150. But, my guess is that is because a fair number of teams refuse to play in it.

I have no angst over it at all. If W&M wants to play, I will enjoy a chance to follow this team one more time(or however long we play). But, the winner of this tournament is not a top 100 basketball team, or at least not beating teams that are a level of the top half of the CAA, including us. I know it is not an either/or thing, but I would prefer to see us in a preseason or Holiday tournament next year. Northeastern accepted an invitation to the Charleston Classic. That tournament has Alabama, Appalachian State, Ball State, Davidson, Northeastern, Purdue, Virginia Tech and Wichita State next year. Those are some decent games with some teams of interest to some of us. But it is hard to argue that the experience this team got in Jamaica did not help it this year. So, any chance to practice together some more and play together is likely beneficial. If the team does not want to play, I also have no issue with that. It is their classes and schedules that have to be dealt with, not mine. Other than supporting the team, there is little benefit to Cohn, Burchfield, Tot, Harrison and Glover. We are not the only school that has turned down the opportunity, but it should be considered each year.

After the loss of a very effective Captain and primary ball handler being replaced with a relatively inexperienced PG who was given minimal playing time this year (as well as some highly touted youngsters who have yet to be incorporated into the lineup), it 100% makes more sense to play a preseason tourney next year to get them the needed experience and hopefully not start the season flat. The Jamaica trip showed how this early extra practice time helps the team gel more readily.

These pay to play tournaments are a financial loser. It won't generate ticket sales or generate TV income to offset the cost. It is simply a chance for your seniors to play again and for fans to get more games. The benefits for the future are minimal and the payout for a cash strapped program is extreme. Honestly, what would excite me about playing would be the chance to eclipse 20 wins again and keep the streak going. That doesn't seem a good enough reason to keep playing though. The guys are on break and aren't practicing as far as I know. The school's eager to play in these tournaments don't seem to be waiting to announce.

(03-08-2018 09:01 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  As the Vegas tourney indicated last year, there has to be a demand for teams to keep playing. Counting the NIT, there are 100 teams in the NCAA/NIT tourneys. If you are not selected for either of those, then there are 48 spots for the CIT and CBI. My only problem with it is some of the teams in it are way below the top 150. But, my guess is that is because a fair number of teams refuse to play in it.

The problem and the reason why 19-20 win teams like W&M don't get invited to the NIT (it is the National Invitation Tournament, after all) is because the NIT started inviting teams with losing records (P5 teams, obviously). As everyone has stated, the NCAA is corrupt and is nothing more than a tool for the P5. So when teams with losing records get invited -- presumably because the big names will draw more TV interest and higher crowds at the games -- it is a travesty that those teams push out mid-majors and low-majors whose body of work is more deserving. Even more cogent, those "lower" level schools/players/fans would actually be excited to play in the NIT whereas -- every single year -- we see the big schools/players/fans have a ho-hum attitude about the NIT and nobody even cares or misses it when they are bounced in the first round. Worst part is (and I kind of scan for this every year) is that the crowd attendance is not good for the P5 schools. W&M would draw a larger crowd to Kaplan just because of the novelty of it, if we were ever permitted to actually host a game. Everyone should pay attention to how many schools with losing records are invited to the NIT, how many actually get home games, and what the attendance level is at those games.

The whole stupidity of it is epitomized by that year that we faced UNC in the NIT. UNC's Dean Dome was under renovation at that time and so they had the game in their field house which hadn't been used for an actual game in many years. But, of course, the NCAA/NIT thought that that was way more preferable than having the game in W'Burg which would have probably attracted 10,000 paying customers.

One of the best things that ever happened to the "little guys" was several years ago when Kentucky was actually relegated to the NIT and their Rupp Arena was under renovation. So they played a road NIT game at St. Francis (PA) --- and lost. The crowd was relatively small because the Red Flash gym was small but it was packed, it was lively, and the fans were going wild!! A totally great college basketball experience all around -- except for the embarrassment suffered by blue blood Kentucky -- and which is why the NIT will probably never do that again.

(03-08-2018 09:28 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  These pay to play tournaments are a financial loser. It won't generate ticket sales or generate TV income to offset the cost. It is simply a chance for your seniors to play again and for fans to get more games. The benefits for the future are minimal and the payout for a cash strapped program is extreme. Honestly, what would excite me about playing would be the chance to eclipse 20 wins again and keep the streak going. That doesn't seem a good enough reason to keep playing though. The guys are on break and aren't practicing as far as I know. The school's eager to play in these tournaments don't seem to be waiting to announce.

Agreed. Use that money for a good nonconference tournament early in the season that gives us an opportunity to get big wins

(03-08-2018 11:17 AM)WMtribe17 Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:28 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  These pay to play tournaments are a financial loser. It won't generate ticket sales or generate TV income to offset the cost. It is simply a chance for your seniors to play again and for fans to get more games. The benefits for the future are minimal and the payout for a cash strapped program is extreme. Honestly, what would excite me about playing would be the chance to eclipse 20 wins again and keep the streak going. That doesn't seem a good enough reason to keep playing though. The guys are on break and aren't practicing as far as I know. The school's eager to play in these tournaments don't seem to be waiting to announce.

Agreed. Use that money for a good nonconference tournament early in the season that gives us an opportunity to get big wins

Cannot agree with this more

Northeastern, followed by Charleston, will be the conference top of the pyramid next season. Charleston is playing post season, and Northeastern has a shot at the NIT (whether they choose CBI/CIT is tbd) Both are already plugged in for solid early season tournaments next year.

Bottom line is, both programs are poised to reap further team development/experience prior to conference play next season, beyond the remainder of the conference teams, which will pay off in separating them that much more from the pack, barring Grant leaving Charleston. If we want to contend with these two next year, then we have got to give our talented, young team the same opportunities to develop and gain added experience. Otherwise, we are saying that we are not looking to win a CAA championship next year, and will look for it the following season. It is that simple.

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