(03-11-2018 10:43 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 08:42 AM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  I will chime in quickly. I rate JMU's ROI from Rowe a 3. You cannot pay a head coach at the bottom of the pay scale and expect upper tier results. JB and King are getting exactly what they paid for regarding talent. If they refuse to pay at the top of the conference pay scale (Brady was the bottom half of the CAA pay scale) how can you realistically expect better results? In the end the free market always wins.

As a JMU basketball fan, alumnus, and donor it bothers me how King and JB go discount shopping for basketball coaches. With us offering stipends and opening a brand new arena there are reasons we cannot be a top 100 program. We just need to find a successful coach from a lesser conference and pay him fairly in comparison to his CAA peers.

Yes, facilities alone are not enough. You have to pay someone enough to entice them to leave a good program to take over one that has had little success in 20 years.

Hart talks about Rowe being replaced by an experienced head coach with a winning track record. Shaver is the only current CAA head coach who fits his description prior to being hired by the Tribe and he was a D3 head coach. The rest of the CAA seems to go for assistants from winning D1 programs so I find this part of his post wishful thinking.

Lou’s record stands for itself. I will say he inherited a winning team minus the best player in the CAA so his assessment of year one falls on deaf ears for me. His team in year two did go 6-6 over the last 12 games of the regular season so there is our silver lining. Overall, it was a poor year. Lou needs to get to a winning record next year and the top half of the CAA for me to think he is making enough progress. There was some this year but it sure wasn’t significant.

I think Hart is smoking crack if he thinks there will be an NCAA ultimatum in year four. If Lou has his program in the top half of the CAA with solid recruiting classes and players who stay out of trouble, that is going to be enough. This program has not won consistently for 20 years. The administration and most of the fan base will be content to see the program win on a consistent basis. Once that happens, it will take many more years of consistent winning before that will not be enough and by then the present administration will be retired.

After year two, I can reasonably conclude that Lou is not a special coach. With his current record, it is hard to argue against anyone who says he is below average. How quickly he can learn and grow will determine his future prospects for remaining a head coach. Actually, how quickly his players can learn and grow is even more important for his future. Lefty was not much of an x’s and o’s guy but he sure had a good career by recruiting great talent. This Freshman class gives us all hope. One more solid class and I believe Lou will have things turned around and headed in the right direction.

Another 10 win season should have JMU looking to buy out the last two years of Lou’s contract. I don’t believe that is going to happen. The talent level is too good. As long as the work ethic of these players is there, we should see them and their record get better each year.

Hart pointed to Kevin Stallings getting fired after year 2 at Pitt - I gave you a more reasonable example a couple of weeks ago with Dan McHale at Eastern Kentucky after year 3. I agree that ultimately it always boils down to wins and losses. I also think that there are other things in terms of the infrastructure of a winning program that needed to be put in place. I think you have to see it through year 3 and we'll see if Coach Rowe can get it done and turn the corner quickly and convert those close losses into wins.

We all want the program to be a winning program- sometimes you may take a step back to take a couple forward. I really believe that. Yes- it's about wins and losses but how the team plays, how they compete- that does matter early on especially with a younger group who are learning and developing. You can gloss over that because it may not support your point that JMU made a bad hire and Rowe is a bad coach but I think it is worth noting.

LH,
I love the strategy of hiring a proven, consistent winner from Div II. Those head coaches do not make a lot so $450,000-$500,000 salary and a new arena would definitely attract interest from quality D2 coaches.

(03-11-2018 10:17 PM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  LH,
I love the strategy of hiring a proven, consistent winner from Div II. Those head coaches do not make a lot so $450,000-$500,000 salary and a new arena would definitely attract interest from quality D2 coaches.

I'm on the same page as you guys with everything except I don't see how JB and CK will ever approve that kind of cash for a Div II guy.

LR isn't going anywhere, but I will play your game. Wes Miller has had back to back socon reg season titles (52-17 record past 2 seasons) and has his team dancing this year. Former JMU guy. Started his coaching career as an assistant at Elon. He is someone that could be considered should we need a new HC soon.

At the same time, please recognize that this success is coming in years five and six* for him as HC at UNCG so he is also showing that patience with a coaching hire can be a virtue after he had a very poor first 3 years of 34-62 overall. (CBI in year 4, NIT in year 5, NCAAs in year 6)

*only counting seasons in which he began the season as HC

(03-11-2018 09:42 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  [quote='nyduke' pid='15160340' dateline='1520797578']


The established lower level coach- i.e. D3 is an interesting thought. Kim Anderson at Missouri comes to mind as a recent failure. Bo Ryan is a good success story- I think Beilein and a guy like Clues at Iona started at that level as well.

Not D3...DII...no need to go down to the non-scholarship level to find a coach.

(03-12-2018 04:47 AM)JMU_Degenerate Wrote:  LR isn't going anywhere, but I will play your game. Wes Miller has had back to back socon reg season titles (52-17 record past 2 seasons) and has his team dancing this year. Former JMU guy. Started his coaching career as an assistant at Elon. He is someone that could be considered should we need a new HC soon.

At the same time, please recognize that this success is coming in years five and six* for him as HC at UNCG so he is also showing that patience with a coaching hire can be a virtue after he had a very poor first 3 years of 34-62 overall. (CBI in year 4, NIT in year 5, NCAAs in year 6)

*only counting seasons in which he began the season as HC

I agree that LR isn't going anywhere (for the moment). LR will get his 3rd year, and maybe a 4th...but a repeat of years 1 and 2 and the handwriting will be on the wall, and LR's tenure will be another failed hire (making it 3 out of 4 bad MBB HC decisions, joining alum Dillard and Keener).

Well, since Bourne's Rolodex only contains names he gets at block parties and garage sales, I think we're in trouble for the foreseeable future.

If I were them I'd be begging Bob Hurley to dust off his johnson and produce some more sons stat.

(03-11-2018 10:17 PM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  LH,
I love the strategy of hiring a proven, consistent winner from Div II. Those head coaches do not make a lot so $450,000-$500,000 salary and a new arena would definitely attract interest from quality D2 coaches.

JMU must recognize the reality of its position in the hierarchy of D1 MBB.

The comment that JB and CK wouldn't pay a DII HC $400-500K sounds about right, but that's exactly the problem. Somehow the guys who are making the hiring and salary decisions continue to think they are going to catch lighting in a bottle by hiring some unproven talent on the cheap. It's not working!

JMU is building a beautiful, modern arena. The BB facilities in 2 years will be as good as they come, and the quality of the university speaks for itself, but in todays market you're not going to hire a top D1 assistant for $300k.

All metaphors are flawed, but it's like the JMU administration wants to purchase a new Mercedes S-Class, but we've only got the budget for a Hyundai Elantra. So, instead of buying the new Hyundai, we keep taking a flyer on a used car off the back lot of the Mercedes dealer, and the damn thing keeps leaving the MBB stranded.

Break the cycle!!!

If I was JB I'd be cultivating possible connections. I'd call up a young, successful DII HC like Ben McCullum (who is just 37 years old but has been a HC for 8 years) to compliment him on his current season, and ask if he'll be attending upcoming the Final Four. Then (if he'll be there) I'd suggest meeting for lunch (away from the hotel) and shoot the bull, feeling him out about what the coach envisions for his career. This is not rocket science, but JMU must get real about matching talent to what we are building. Either prepare to pony-up $1-1.5 mil per year for a HC, or buy the Hyundai.

(03-11-2018 12:42 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Now that everyone who cares has chimed in, I will offer my evaluation for what it’s worth.
I give Louis Rowe a 1 for severely underperforming this year.
In a performance evaluation, the results are the only thing that matters and that is exactly how it should be. Put up or shut up. There is no gray area in sports. Every game has a winner and a loser. Louis Rowe and JMU basketball were losers this year.
The performance appraisal expectations for the program do not change based on who the coach is. Either you meet the metrics or you do not.

You are what your record says you are. Coach Rowe was 10-22.
JMU tied for the worst record in the CAA and they held the worst record overall by themself.
In postseason, Coach Rowe lost in the Keener round and didn’t even get to the quarterfinals of the CAA which Bourne expects JMU to advance beyond the quarterfinals. Gotta get there first.
Once again this year, The Whole was less than the sum of the parts.
When you are not coming close to the metrics for winning and you rank last among your peers for raw performance, then you get a 1 every time.

Now there are all kinds of soft metrics Bourne added to try to justify a change 2 years ago, but the reality is that if you don’t win, you will get fired. You can’t shake enough hands and kiss enough babies to offset losing. You can’t point to individual talent and recruiting success because Nobody cares about these things if the team doesn’t win. You can graduate 100% of your players and you will get fired for losing. You can raise Donations for the arena and you will get fired for losing. You can increase attendance and you will get fired for losing. All of these soft metrics are merely tiebreakers if you have 2 coaches that win. If coach A doesn’t do these things and Coach B does, then coach B would win the tie as long as they are both winning at a similar level.

If Rowe doesn’t have a Bourne ultimatum in his performance tracker for next year, I will be shocked and question if JMU wants it bad enough. THe program is bigger than one person and JMU absolutely cannot go into a new arena with a losing, or even mediocre coach. I suspect Rowe will be tasked with finishing in the top 4 of the CAA and advancing to at least the semifinals of the tourney. If he can do that, he gets to come back for a 4th year and the expectations would be higher. Get to the NCAA that year or get replaced with an experienced head coach who has a winning track record and can open the new arena with excitement and winning in 2020.

Annual appraisals don’t consider previous years, but once the appraisal is finished then it can be added to previous years’ appraisals to analyze the track record. Strike 2 for Louis Rowe. 2 years and 65 games is a long time to show what you can do and the results are extremely concerning.
Last year was a disaster. Prior to the hiring Bourne stated “With a strong presence on next year's team of upperclassmen who have experienced winning, a new coach can be successful right out of the gate.“
Nope.
Rowe took a program with 80% of its starters returning and 8 seniors (more than any team in the nation) and transformed them from a squad that won 40 games finishing in the top 3 of the CAA in the previous 2 years into a squad that went 10-23, played in the Keener round, and then lost in the quarterfinals.

Check out Rowe’s place among peers...
JMU coaches career winning percentages.
Campanelli .655 took promotion at Cal
Driesell .589 fired after 9 seasons
Brady .523 fired after 8 seasons
Dillard .467 fired after 8 seasons
Thurston .413 fired in middle of 3rd season
Rowe .308
Keener .267 fired after 4 seasons

But wait, Rowe hasn’t had enough time you say?
JMU record in 1st two years
Campanelli 35-17
Driesell 36-25
Dillard 27-27
Brady 34-35
Thurston 25-33
Rowe 20-45
Keener 11-45

Here is another comparison vs peers in the CAA. 2 of these coaches were hired at the same time as Rowe, took over losing programs in terrible shape, yet have performed better than Rowe. Sad story.
Record over last 2 years...
Charleston 51-17
UNCW 40-27
Northeastern 38-26
Towson 38-27
W&M 36-26
Hofstra 34-29
Elon 32-32
Delaware 27-39
Drexel 22-43
JMU 20-45

The results so far are worst case scenario IMO. Take a winning program and run it into the gutter faster than you can say WTF happened?

Are you really saying that Rowe took over a 'winning & successful program' that was created under Brady and ran it into the ground. That is seriously what you are saying. I will agree that Rowe has underperformed thru 2 years but to say Rowe has run a winning program into the gutter is just absurd. Brady was a career under .500 coach. Yes Rowe took over a team with 8 seniors, but without the guy, Curry, who carried the team the previous year and Dalambert who got hurt and was sidelined for the year as by far the best interior presence. You can tout that 8 senior, most experienced team in the NCAA all you want......but that was a collection of mediocre at best role players that were rather non-athletic with not one difference maker among them.

(03-12-2018 09:27 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:42 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Now that everyone who cares has chimed in, I will offer my evaluation for what it’s worth.
I give Louis Rowe a 1 for severely underperforming this year.
In a performance evaluation, the results are the only thing that matters and that is exactly how it should be. Put up or shut up. There is no gray area in sports. Every game has a winner and a loser. Louis Rowe and JMU basketball were losers this year.
The performance appraisal expectations for the program do not change based on who the coach is. Either you meet the metrics or you do not.

You are what your record says you are. Coach Rowe was 10-22.
JMU tied for the worst record in the CAA and they held the worst record overall by themself.
In postseason, Coach Rowe lost in the Keener round and didn’t even get to the quarterfinals of the CAA which Bourne expects JMU to advance beyond the quarterfinals. Gotta get there first.
Once again this year, The Whole was less than the sum of the parts.
When you are not coming close to the metrics for winning and you rank last among your peers for raw performance, then you get a 1 every time.

Now there are all kinds of soft metrics Bourne added to try to justify a change 2 years ago, but the reality is that if you don’t win, you will get fired. You can’t shake enough hands and kiss enough babies to offset losing. You can’t point to individual talent and recruiting success because Nobody cares about these things if the team doesn’t win. You can graduate 100% of your players and you will get fired for losing. You can raise Donations for the arena and you will get fired for losing. You can increase attendance and you will get fired for losing. All of these soft metrics are merely tiebreakers if you have 2 coaches that win. If coach A doesn’t do these things and Coach B does, then coach B would win the tie as long as they are both winning at a similar level.

If Rowe doesn’t have a Bourne ultimatum in his performance tracker for next year, I will be shocked and question if JMU wants it bad enough. THe program is bigger than one person and JMU absolutely cannot go into a new arena with a losing, or even mediocre coach. I suspect Rowe will be tasked with finishing in the top 4 of the CAA and advancing to at least the semifinals of the tourney. If he can do that, he gets to come back for a 4th year and the expectations would be higher. Get to the NCAA that year or get replaced with an experienced head coach who has a winning track record and can open the new arena with excitement and winning in 2020.

Annual appraisals don’t consider previous years, but once the appraisal is finished then it can be added to previous years’ appraisals to analyze the track record. Strike 2 for Louis Rowe. 2 years and 65 games is a long time to show what you can do and the results are extremely concerning.
Last year was a disaster. Prior to the hiring Bourne stated “With a strong presence on next year's team of upperclassmen who have experienced winning, a new coach can be successful right out of the gate.“
Nope.
Rowe took a program with 80% of its starters returning and 8 seniors (more than any team in the nation) and transformed them from a squad that won 40 games finishing in the top 3 of the CAA in the previous 2 years into a squad that went 10-23, played in the Keener round, and then lost in the quarterfinals.

Check out Rowe’s place among peers...
JMU coaches career winning percentages.
Campanelli .655 took promotion at Cal
Driesell .589 fired after 9 seasons
Brady .523 fired after 8 seasons
Dillard .467 fired after 8 seasons
Thurston .413 fired in middle of 3rd season
Rowe .308
Keener .267 fired after 4 seasons

But wait, Rowe hasn’t had enough time you say?
JMU record in 1st two years
Campanelli 35-17
Driesell 36-25
Dillard 27-27
Brady 34-35
Thurston 25-33
Rowe 20-45
Keener 11-45

Here is another comparison vs peers in the CAA. 2 of these coaches were hired at the same time as Rowe, took over losing programs in terrible shape, yet have performed better than Rowe. Sad story.
Record over last 2 years...
Charleston 51-17
UNCW 40-27
Northeastern 38-26
Towson 38-27
W&M 36-26
Hofstra 34-29
Elon 32-32
Delaware 27-39
Drexel 22-43
JMU 20-45

The results so far are worst case scenario IMO. Take a winning program and run it into the gutter faster than you can say WTF happened?

Are you really saying that Rowe took over a 'winning & successful program' that was created under Brady and ran it into the ground. That is seriously what you are saying. I will agree that Rowe has underperformed thru 2 years but to say Rowe has run a winning program into the gutter is just absurd. Brady was a career under .500 coach. Yes Rowe took over a team with 8 seniors, but without the guy, Curry, who carried the team the previous year and Dalambert who got hurt and was sidelined for the year as by far the best interior presence. You can tout that 8 senior, most experienced team in the NCAA all you want......but that was a collection of mediocre at best role players that were rather non-athletic with not one difference maker among them.

MB “was a career under .500 coach.”? His “career record” indicates MB’s W-L record is 211-175, or a .547 winning percentage. And MB did post four 20 win seasons (out of 8) at JMU, which ties the most ever 20 win seasons posted by any other JMU HC, and MB did leave the MBB program in a much better place than what he inherited.

You can continue to denigrate MB, it’s a free country, but the facts don’t support your thesis.

Could we get Rick Pitino for cheap? Getting a former ACC coach looking for redemption seemed to work out before...

(03-12-2018 10:21 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:27 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:42 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Now that everyone who cares has chimed in, I will offer my evaluation for what it’s worth.
I give Louis Rowe a 1 for severely underperforming this year.
In a performance evaluation, the results are the only thing that matters and that is exactly how it should be. Put up or shut up. There is no gray area in sports. Every game has a winner and a loser. Louis Rowe and JMU basketball were losers this year.
The performance appraisal expectations for the program do not change based on who the coach is. Either you meet the metrics or you do not.

You are what your record says you are. Coach Rowe was 10-22.
JMU tied for the worst record in the CAA and they held the worst record overall by themself.
In postseason, Coach Rowe lost in the Keener round and didn’t even get to the quarterfinals of the CAA which Bourne expects JMU to advance beyond the quarterfinals. Gotta get there first.
Once again this year, The Whole was less than the sum of the parts.
When you are not coming close to the metrics for winning and you rank last among your peers for raw performance, then you get a 1 every time.

Now there are all kinds of soft metrics Bourne added to try to justify a change 2 years ago, but the reality is that if you don’t win, you will get fired. You can’t shake enough hands and kiss enough babies to offset losing. You can’t point to individual talent and recruiting success because Nobody cares about these things if the team doesn’t win. You can graduate 100% of your players and you will get fired for losing. You can raise Donations for the arena and you will get fired for losing. You can increase attendance and you will get fired for losing. All of these soft metrics are merely tiebreakers if you have 2 coaches that win. If coach A doesn’t do these things and Coach B does, then coach B would win the tie as long as they are both winning at a similar level.

If Rowe doesn’t have a Bourne ultimatum in his performance tracker for next year, I will be shocked and question if JMU wants it bad enough. THe program is bigger than one person and JMU absolutely cannot go into a new arena with a losing, or even mediocre coach. I suspect Rowe will be tasked with finishing in the top 4 of the CAA and advancing to at least the semifinals of the tourney. If he can do that, he gets to come back for a 4th year and the expectations would be higher. Get to the NCAA that year or get replaced with an experienced head coach who has a winning track record and can open the new arena with excitement and winning in 2020.

Annual appraisals don’t consider previous years, but once the appraisal is finished then it can be added to previous years’ appraisals to analyze the track record. Strike 2 for Louis Rowe. 2 years and 65 games is a long time to show what you can do and the results are extremely concerning.
Last year was a disaster. Prior to the hiring Bourne stated “With a strong presence on next year's team of upperclassmen who have experienced winning, a new coach can be successful right out of the gate.“
Nope.
Rowe took a program with 80% of its starters returning and 8 seniors (more than any team in the nation) and transformed them from a squad that won 40 games finishing in the top 3 of the CAA in the previous 2 years into a squad that went 10-23, played in the Keener round, and then lost in the quarterfinals.

Check out Rowe’s place among peers...
JMU coaches career winning percentages.
Campanelli .655 took promotion at Cal
Driesell .589 fired after 9 seasons
Brady .523 fired after 8 seasons
Dillard .467 fired after 8 seasons
Thurston .413 fired in middle of 3rd season
Rowe .308
Keener .267 fired after 4 seasons

But wait, Rowe hasn’t had enough time you say?
JMU record in 1st two years
Campanelli 35-17
Driesell 36-25
Dillard 27-27
Brady 34-35
Thurston 25-33
Rowe 20-45
Keener 11-45

Here is another comparison vs peers in the CAA. 2 of these coaches were hired at the same time as Rowe, took over losing programs in terrible shape, yet have performed better than Rowe. Sad story.
Record over last 2 years...
Charleston 51-17
UNCW 40-27
Northeastern 38-26
Towson 38-27
W&M 36-26
Hofstra 34-29
Elon 32-32
Delaware 27-39
Drexel 22-43
JMU 20-45

The results so far are worst case scenario IMO. Take a winning program and run it into the gutter faster than you can say WTF happened?

Are you really saying that Rowe took over a 'winning & successful program' that was created under Brady and ran it into the ground. That is seriously what you are saying. I will agree that Rowe has underperformed thru 2 years but to say Rowe has run a winning program into the gutter is just absurd. Brady was a career under .500 coach. Yes Rowe took over a team with 8 seniors, but without the guy, Curry, who carried the team the previous year and Dalambert who got hurt and was sidelined for the year as by far the best interior presence. You can tout that 8 senior, most experienced team in the NCAA all you want......but that was a collection of mediocre at best role players that were rather non-athletic with not one difference maker among them.

MB “was a career under .500 coach.”? His “career record” indicates MB’s W-L record is 211-175, or a .547 winning percentage. And MB did post four 20 win seasons (out of 8) at JMU, which ties the most ever 20 win seasons posted by any other JMU HC, and MB did leave the MBB program in a much better place than what he inherited.

You can continue to denigrate MB, it’s a free country, but the facts don’t support your thesis.

Yes, I clearly do NOT have the admiration for Matt Brady's coaching career that LH has....and by career I really only care what he did at JMU and specifically as it relates to CAA play b/c and guess what he is a freaking sub .500 coach in the mighty CAA. In those 'great' 20 win seasons Brady's best conference record was 12-6 and he never with any consistency beat the better teams in the CAA. Good coaches don't yoyo like this they may have an occasional down year but not yoyo between losing records and 20 win seasons .

Here are Brady JMU career stats:
2008-2009 - 21-15 CAA 9-9
2009-2010 - 13-20 CAA 4-14
2010-2011 - 21-12 CAA 10-8
2011-2012 - 12-20 CAA 5-13
2012-2013 - 21-15 CAA 11-7
2013-2014 - 11-20 CAA 6-10
2014-2015 - 19-14 CAA 12-6
2015-1016 - 21-11 CAA 12-6
139-127 52.3% 69-73 48.6%

I will agree that Rowe needs to turn the corner next year but trying to imply that Rowe replaced a coaching genius in Matt Brady is just absurd. He got out-coached regularly and lost the X's & O's battle frequently in the CAA. He had an 8 year body of work and a CAREER sub .500 CAA record which SUCKED. I assume some folks, LH, among them are happy with these numbers but luckily JMU was not and moved on. Was Rowe the first choice, nope, but I think he is an improvement over Brady.....in my book yes. At least he seems to have institutional control of the program, which Brady seemed to lose over time. And yeah if year 3 and 4 are not much better it is time to hire another coach.

(03-12-2018 10:43 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 10:21 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:27 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:42 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Now that everyone who cares has chimed in, I will offer my evaluation for what it’s worth.
I give Louis Rowe a 1 for severely underperforming this year.
In a performance evaluation, the results are the only thing that matters and that is exactly how it should be. Put up or shut up. There is no gray area in sports. Every game has a winner and a loser. Louis Rowe and JMU basketball were losers this year.
The performance appraisal expectations for the program do not change based on who the coach is. Either you meet the metrics or you do not.

You are what your record says you are. Coach Rowe was 10-22.
JMU tied for the worst record in the CAA and they held the worst record overall by themself.
In postseason, Coach Rowe lost in the Keener round and didn’t even get to the quarterfinals of the CAA which Bourne expects JMU to advance beyond the quarterfinals. Gotta get there first.
Once again this year, The Whole was less than the sum of the parts.
When you are not coming close to the metrics for winning and you rank last among your peers for raw performance, then you get a 1 every time.

Now there are all kinds of soft metrics Bourne added to try to justify a change 2 years ago, but the reality is that if you don’t win, you will get fired. You can’t shake enough hands and kiss enough babies to offset losing. You can’t point to individual talent and recruiting success because Nobody cares about these things if the team doesn’t win. You can graduate 100% of your players and you will get fired for losing. You can raise Donations for the arena and you will get fired for losing. You can increase attendance and you will get fired for losing. All of these soft metrics are merely tiebreakers if you have 2 coaches that win. If coach A doesn’t do these things and Coach B does, then coach B would win the tie as long as they are both winning at a similar level.

If Rowe doesn’t have a Bourne ultimatum in his performance tracker for next year, I will be shocked and question if JMU wants it bad enough. THe program is bigger than one person and JMU absolutely cannot go into a new arena with a losing, or even mediocre coach. I suspect Rowe will be tasked with finishing in the top 4 of the CAA and advancing to at least the semifinals of the tourney. If he can do that, he gets to come back for a 4th year and the expectations would be higher. Get to the NCAA that year or get replaced with an experienced head coach who has a winning track record and can open the new arena with excitement and winning in 2020.

Annual appraisals don’t consider previous years, but once the appraisal is finished then it can be added to previous years’ appraisals to analyze the track record. Strike 2 for Louis Rowe. 2 years and 65 games is a long time to show what you can do and the results are extremely concerning.
Last year was a disaster. Prior to the hiring Bourne stated “With a strong presence on next year's team of upperclassmen who have experienced winning, a new coach can be successful right out of the gate.“
Nope.
Rowe took a program with 80% of its starters returning and 8 seniors (more than any team in the nation) and transformed them from a squad that won 40 games finishing in the top 3 of the CAA in the previous 2 years into a squad that went 10-23, played in the Keener round, and then lost in the quarterfinals.

Check out Rowe’s place among peers...
JMU coaches career winning percentages.
Campanelli .655 took promotion at Cal
Driesell .589 fired after 9 seasons
Brady .523 fired after 8 seasons
Dillard .467 fired after 8 seasons
Thurston .413 fired in middle of 3rd season
Rowe .308
Keener .267 fired after 4 seasons

But wait, Rowe hasn’t had enough time you say?
JMU record in 1st two years
Campanelli 35-17
Driesell 36-25
Dillard 27-27
Brady 34-35
Thurston 25-33
Rowe 20-45
Keener 11-45

Here is another comparison vs peers in the CAA. 2 of these coaches were hired at the same time as Rowe, took over losing programs in terrible shape, yet have performed better than Rowe. Sad story.
Record over last 2 years...
Charleston 51-17
UNCW 40-27
Northeastern 38-26
Towson 38-27
W&M 36-26
Hofstra 34-29
Elon 32-32
Delaware 27-39
Drexel 22-43
JMU 20-45

The results so far are worst case scenario IMO. Take a winning program and run it into the gutter faster than you can say WTF happened?

Are you really saying that Rowe took over a 'winning & successful program' that was created under Brady and ran it into the ground. That is seriously what you are saying. I will agree that Rowe has underperformed thru 2 years but to say Rowe has run a winning program into the gutter is just absurd. Brady was a career under .500 coach. Yes Rowe took over a team with 8 seniors, but without the guy, Curry, who carried the team the previous year and Dalambert who got hurt and was sidelined for the year as by far the best interior presence. You can tout that 8 senior, most experienced team in the NCAA all you want......but that was a collection of mediocre at best role players that were rather non-athletic with not one difference maker among them.

MB “was a career under .500 coach.”? His “career record” indicates MB’s W-L record is 211-175, or a .547 winning percentage. And MB did post four 20 win seasons (out of 8) at JMU, which ties the most ever 20 win seasons posted by any other JMU HC, and MB did leave the MBB program in a much better place than what he inherited.

You can continue to denigrate MB, it’s a free country, but the facts don’t support your thesis.

Yes, I clearly do NOT have the admiration for Matt Brady's coaching career that LH has....and by career I really only care what he did at JMU and specifically as it relates to CAA play b/c and guess what he is a freaking sub .500 coach in the mighty CAA. In those 'great' 20 win seasons Brady's best conference record was 12-6 and he never with any consistency beat the better teams in the CAA. Good coaches don't yoyo like this they may have an occasional down year but not yoyo between losing records and 20 win seasons .

Here are Brady JMU career stats:
2008-2009 - 21-15 CAA 9-9
2009-2010 - 13-20 CAA 4-14
2010-2011 - 21-12 CAA 10-8
2011-2012 - 12-20 CAA 5-13
2012-2013 - 21-15 CAA 11-7
2013-2014 - 11-20 CAA 6-10
2014-2015 - 19-14 CAA 12-6
2015-1016 - 21-11 CAA 12-6
139-127 52.3% 69-73 48.6%

I will agree that Rowe needs to turn the corner next year but trying to imply that Rowe replaced a coaching genius in Matt Brady is just absurd. He got out-coached regularly and lost the X's & O's battle frequently in the CAA. He had an 8 year body of work and a CAREER sub .500 CAA record which SUCKED. I assume some folks, LH, among them are happy with these numbers but luckily JMU was not and moved on. Was Rowe the first choice, nope, but I think he is an improvement over Brady.....in my book yes. At least he seems to have institutional control of the program, which Brady seemed to lose over time. And yeah if year 3 and 4 are not much better it is time to hire another coach.

I wasn't aware that anyone, much less myself, heralded MB as a "coaching genius" but, okay, whatever.

You are, however, the first poster who I've heard claim that MB wasn't a good "Xs and Os" guy, and who refuses to acknowledge the hole the program was in after Keener worked his "magic." How you came away with the idea MB was regularly out-coached leaves me baffled, but I must say that after two 10 win seasons into the LR tenure that at least LR is better than Keener, but that's not saying much.

(03-12-2018 01:08 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 10:43 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 10:21 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:27 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:42 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Now that everyone who cares has chimed in, I will offer my evaluation for what it’s worth.
I give Louis Rowe a 1 for severely underperforming this year.
In a performance evaluation, the results are the only thing that matters and that is exactly how it should be. Put up or shut up. There is no gray area in sports. Every game has a winner and a loser. Louis Rowe and JMU basketball were losers this year.
The performance appraisal expectations for the program do not change based on who the coach is. Either you meet the metrics or you do not.

You are what your record says you are. Coach Rowe was 10-22.
JMU tied for the worst record in the CAA and they held the worst record overall by themself.
In postseason, Coach Rowe lost in the Keener round and didn’t even get to the quarterfinals of the CAA which Bourne expects JMU to advance beyond the quarterfinals. Gotta get there first.
Once again this year, The Whole was less than the sum of the parts.
When you are not coming close to the metrics for winning and you rank last among your peers for raw performance, then you get a 1 every time.

Now there are all kinds of soft metrics Bourne added to try to justify a change 2 years ago, but the reality is that if you don’t win, you will get fired. You can’t shake enough hands and kiss enough babies to offset losing. You can’t point to individual talent and recruiting success because Nobody cares about these things if the team doesn’t win. You can graduate 100% of your players and you will get fired for losing. You can raise Donations for the arena and you will get fired for losing. You can increase attendance and you will get fired for losing. All of these soft metrics are merely tiebreakers if you have 2 coaches that win. If coach A doesn’t do these things and Coach B does, then coach B would win the tie as long as they are both winning at a similar level.

If Rowe doesn’t have a Bourne ultimatum in his performance tracker for next year, I will be shocked and question if JMU wants it bad enough. THe program is bigger than one person and JMU absolutely cannot go into a new arena with a losing, or even mediocre coach. I suspect Rowe will be tasked with finishing in the top 4 of the CAA and advancing to at least the semifinals of the tourney. If he can do that, he gets to come back for a 4th year and the expectations would be higher. Get to the NCAA that year or get replaced with an experienced head coach who has a winning track record and can open the new arena with excitement and winning in 2020.

Annual appraisals don’t consider previous years, but once the appraisal is finished then it can be added to previous years’ appraisals to analyze the track record. Strike 2 for Louis Rowe. 2 years and 65 games is a long time to show what you can do and the results are extremely concerning.
Last year was a disaster. Prior to the hiring Bourne stated “With a strong presence on next year's team of upperclassmen who have experienced winning, a new coach can be successful right out of the gate.“
Nope.
Rowe took a program with 80% of its starters returning and 8 seniors (more than any team in the nation) and transformed them from a squad that won 40 games finishing in the top 3 of the CAA in the previous 2 years into a squad that went 10-23, played in the Keener round, and then lost in the quarterfinals.

Check out Rowe’s place among peers...
JMU coaches career winning percentages.
Campanelli .655 took promotion at Cal
Driesell .589 fired after 9 seasons
Brady .523 fired after 8 seasons
Dillard .467 fired after 8 seasons
Thurston .413 fired in middle of 3rd season
Rowe .308
Keener .267 fired after 4 seasons

But wait, Rowe hasn’t had enough time you say?
JMU record in 1st two years
Campanelli 35-17
Driesell 36-25
Dillard 27-27
Brady 34-35
Thurston 25-33
Rowe 20-45
Keener 11-45

Here is another comparison vs peers in the CAA. 2 of these coaches were hired at the same time as Rowe, took over losing programs in terrible shape, yet have performed better than Rowe. Sad story.
Record over last 2 years...
Charleston 51-17
UNCW 40-27
Northeastern 38-26
Towson 38-27
W&M 36-26
Hofstra 34-29
Elon 32-32
Delaware 27-39
Drexel 22-43
JMU 20-45

The results so far are worst case scenario IMO. Take a winning program and run it into the gutter faster than you can say WTF happened?

Are you really saying that Rowe took over a 'winning & successful program' that was created under Brady and ran it into the ground. That is seriously what you are saying. I will agree that Rowe has underperformed thru 2 years but to say Rowe has run a winning program into the gutter is just absurd. Brady was a career under .500 coach. Yes Rowe took over a team with 8 seniors, but without the guy, Curry, who carried the team the previous year and Dalambert who got hurt and was sidelined for the year as by far the best interior presence. You can tout that 8 senior, most experienced team in the NCAA all you want......but that was a collection of mediocre at best role players that were rather non-athletic with not one difference maker among them.

MB “was a career under .500 coach.”? His “career record” indicates MB’s W-L record is 211-175, or a .547 winning percentage. And MB did post four 20 win seasons (out of 8) at JMU, which ties the most ever 20 win seasons posted by any other JMU HC, and MB did leave the MBB program in a much better place than what he inherited.

You can continue to denigrate MB, it’s a free country, but the facts don’t support your thesis.

Yes, I clearly do NOT have the admiration for Matt Brady's coaching career that LH has....and by career I really only care what he did at JMU and specifically as it relates to CAA play b/c and guess what he is a freaking sub .500 coach in the mighty CAA. In those 'great' 20 win seasons Brady's best conference record was 12-6 and he never with any consistency beat the better teams in the CAA. Good coaches don't yoyo like this they may have an occasional down year but not yoyo between losing records and 20 win seasons .

Here are Brady JMU career stats:
2008-2009 - 21-15 CAA 9-9
2009-2010 - 13-20 CAA 4-14
2010-2011 - 21-12 CAA 10-8
2011-2012 - 12-20 CAA 5-13
2012-2013 - 21-15 CAA 11-7
2013-2014 - 11-20 CAA 6-10
2014-2015 - 19-14 CAA 12-6
2015-1016 - 21-11 CAA 12-6
139-127 52.3% 69-73 48.6%

I will agree that Rowe needs to turn the corner next year but trying to imply that Rowe replaced a coaching genius in Matt Brady is just absurd. He got out-coached regularly and lost the X's & O's battle frequently in the CAA. He had an 8 year body of work and a CAREER sub .500 CAA record which SUCKED. I assume some folks, LH, among them are happy with these numbers but luckily JMU was not and moved on. Was Rowe the first choice, nope, but I think he is an improvement over Brady.....in my book yes. At least he seems to have institutional control of the program, which Brady seemed to lose over time. And yeah if year 3 and 4 are not much better it is time to hire another coach.

I wasn't aware that anyone, much less myself, heralded MB as a "coaching genius" but, okay, whatever.

You are, however, the first poster who I've heard claim that MB wasn't a good "Xs and Os" guy, and who refuses to acknowledge the hole the program was in after Keener worked his "magic." How you came away with the idea MB was regularly out-coached leaves me baffled, but I must say that after two 10 win seasons into the LR tenure that at least LR is better than Keener, but that's not saying much.

Well I went to a lot of JMU games during the Matt Brady era......and not sure how anyone can say Brady is a good Xs & Os coach when he has a sub .500 CAA record. So for all that think Brady is a good Xs & Os coach then why did he lose so much in the CAA. It cannot be a talent thing b/c his great Xs & Os ability would have surely overcame any lack of talent.

Yes I have bitten my lip on this topic on countless times, but bottom line there is no way someone can be considered a good game strategist/Xs & Os guy when he has a sub .500 record in a mid-major like the CAA. Good coaches win and win big in mid-majors and move on. Brady is a very nice guy but he is what is numbers indicate he is a mediocre college basketball coach and his sample size is plenty to indicate that complete with 2 full recruiting cycles at JMU.

I wonder why folks think he is a good Xs & Os guy. The guy could NOT coach defense at all and on offense the Xs & Os I saw 90% of the time.......no one cut, no one drive, and no one set picks and lets pass the ball passively around the 3 point line for 30 seconds and then have someone hoist up a bad 3 or have Ron Curry or Devon Moore drive as the clock winds down and hopefully it works out. That was the freaking offense for 8 damn years under Brady.

I can't even tell you how many times I felt that way shady, Bradys teams would waste the shot clock and then scramble to score. I saw a lot less of that this year.

If you could do a review of game threads from that era I'm sure you could find the complaints

(03-12-2018 02:31 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I can't even tell you how many times I felt that way shady, Bradys teams would waste the shot clock and then scramble to score. I saw a lot less of that this year.

If you could do a review of game threads from that era I'm sure you could find the complaints

Preaching to the choir 'Centdukesfan'. I am just sick and tired of this lie/fallacy that Brady ran some great offense (Xs & Os) while at JMU. It is some kind of fallacy that seem to now be accepted as fact just like he was some kind of great 'Shot Doctor'.

I saw much more actual flow and offense this season than I did under Brady......not saying it was perfect and does not have room to grow and get better. And yes this year it seemed they would go thru stretches and just forget what was working and get lazy on offense.

False narrative driven by those upset with Charlie King going cheap on the MBB hire.

(03-12-2018 03:06 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  False narrative driven by those upset with Charlie King going cheap on the MBB hire.

It does seem to be a narrative pushed hardest by those who were most critical of the Rowe hire.

And you can see that some of that POV is clearly tied to an inexplicable Brady man-crush.

I didn’t hate Brady while he was our coach & felt he got absolutely boned with the lame-duck season. But I also can’t pretend like his CAA tournament results (not 2013) were even remotely successful.

(03-12-2018 03:26 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  And you can see that some of that POV is clearly tied to an inexplicable Brady man-crush.

I didn’t hate Brady while he was our coach & felt he got absolutely boned with the lame-duck season. But I also can’t pretend like his CAA tournament results (not 2013) were even remotely successful.

Agree.....it does go along with the Brady man-crush which was never really evident until Rowe was hired. I never heard such gushing about Brady and his brilliance with the Xs/Os until Rowe was hired.