(03-01-2018 09:29 PM)Paul M Wrote:  US steel imports-Top 10 sources :

16% Canada
13 Brazil
10 S Korea
9 Mexico
9 Russia
7 Turkey
5 Japan
4 Taiwan
3 Germany
2 India
22% others

China was #11, somewhere south of 2%.

Aluminum:

56% Canada
8 Russia
7 UAE

6% China

23% others

Its a world market for steel. And its China's pricing that has devastated the US Steel industry. So maybe this is symbolic with regards to China.

They haven't announced which countries will be impacted.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t...SKCN1GD4ZW
"...Asked whether there would be exemptions for any countries, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said she would not get into any details ahead of next week’s announcement. She said the tariffs were still being finalized.
Although China only accounts for a small fraction of U.S. steel imports, its massive industry expansion has helped produce a global glut of steel that has driven down prices...."

Many of Trump's moves seem to push us in the general direction of better war readiness.

(03-01-2018 06:43 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 05:33 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 04:00 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 03:51 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 03:50 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  What's the long range effect of the tariff's? Higher prices here? I see the stock market did not like the news.

In theory it'll help revive our steel industry. For the past 10-15 years imported steel was cheaper. This tariff makes US steel cheaper here.

Let's clarify that. The tariff doesn't make US steel cheaper. It just makes it cheaper than imported steel. Steel and aluminum prices are going up.

I work for a manufacturer that utilizes lots and lots and lots of steel and aluminum and we don't just sit back and accept the increase in cost. We are passing these costs on to our customers and they will pass the increases on to the consumer.

I'm not saying these tariffs are bad. I'm just saying there is a trade off. US steel industry grows and adds jobs but prices of products using these materials will rise.

I am. It's a tax on Americans delivered to select companies. And as you note, tries to prop up one industry while hurting many others.

Eric Boehm at reason Wrote:While those American steel manufacturers would benefit from the tariffs, a far larger slice of the economy would be hurt. According to 2015 Census data, steel mills employ about 140,000 Americans and add about $36 billion to the economy, but steel-consuming industries employ more than 6.5 million Americans and add $1 trillion to the economy.

Link

ETA: We've tried this before.

Ethan Wolff-Mann at Yahoo Finance Wrote:In March 2002, President George W. Bush imposed a 30% tariff on Chinese steel. The results were chaotic. In a report put out by Consuming Industries Trade Action Coalition in February of that year, the coalition found the tariffs against China boosted the overall prices of steel and cost the U.S. 200,000 jobs in businesses that buy steel, representing $4 billion.

In another recent situation, in September 2009, President Obama imposed a three-year tariff on car tires from China. Chinese imports went down, but the tires were simply sourced from other countries, the LA Times noted. According to the Peterson Institute for International Economics, 1,200 tire jobs were saved in the U.S., but through costs passed along to American consumers, 2,500 jobs were lost indirectly.

In Bush’s case, seven months after the tariffs were imposed more American jobs had been lost than Americans employed by domestic steel producers. Writing about the trickling effect of trying to help a certain domestic industry, CITAC noted: “In making policy for the revitalization of manufacturing, including the steel industry, our conclusions suggest that the effects across the full industrial spectrum should be considered.”

I'm not a fan of these protectionist actions, at all.

I don’t see it as protectionist in the way that you do. These industries are vital to the national security of our country. We need for these industries to be strong. We do not want to be without these materials if the world goes to hell in a handbasket.

The president has put this forth as one of his reasons for the tariffs and it's overinflated. On top of Paul M's point that our biggest steel providers are friendly and China is WELL down the list: We have defense treaties with 5 countries who are likely to be hit with tariffs. And for good measure: US defense consumes 3% of US Steel production.

Of course it's protectionism. The president is imposing a tax on American consumers to help his chosen winners. A $36B industry is being given a handout at the expense of $1T worth of combined industries.

(03-01-2018 09:46 PM)Claw Wrote:  Many of Trump's moves seem to push us in the general direction of war.

FIFY.

I am not sure I have seen anything in our foreign policy under Trump that doesn't lead me to believe that he wants a war with someone. The unnecessary parade was a hint. I don't know if he thinks it will guarantee him a second term or he believes being a wartime president would solidify his power, but he certainly seems hellbent in ticking off friends and enemies alike.

These tariffs are a big middle finger to Canada and, while not technically protectionist, I believe they were politically motivated to give his base more MAGA red meat to chew on and direct people's attention away from the feces storm that is coming to characterize his presidency.

Yeah, great idea...

1000 point drop in the markets this week. People might start pulling out their money to buy back after a crash.

(03-01-2018 04:00 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 03:51 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(03-01-2018 03:50 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  What's the long range effect of the tariff's? Higher prices here? I see the stock market did not like the news.

In theory it'll help revive our steel industry. For the past 10-15 years imported steel was cheaper. This tariff makes US steel cheaper here.

Let's clarify that. The tariff doesn't make US steel cheaper. It just makes it cheaper than imported steel. Steel and aluminum prices are going up.

I work for a manufacturer that utilizes lots and lots and lots of steel and aluminum and we don't just sit back and accept the increase in cost. We are passing these costs on to our customers and they will pass the increases on to the consumer.

I'm not saying these tariffs are bad. I'm just saying there is a trade off. US steel industry grows and adds jobs but prices of products using these materials will rise.

that is XACLY! correct....

when china began overbuilding creating a supply shortage starting ~15 yrs ago, we had to tack on surcharges as required....

this one I don't like in scope....

(03-01-2018 06:11 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  You don’t think that message was for a lot of Democrat Senators too? Please.

He was poking at two specific senators one was a Republican and one was Joe Manchin...

(03-02-2018 06:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  1000 point drop in the markets this week. People might start pulling out their money to buy back after a crash.

Where are they going to put it? Under their mattress? You have to think of the alternatives.

Most would call it a bank.

(03-02-2018 09:02 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Most would call it a bank.

Paying little to no interest? Seems ignorant to me considering the US economy is humming along rather nicely, etc.....

one positive I do see is the ones that recycle will see a huge bump in revenue.....

a handful of years ago scrap tin was $11/100 lbs.....it dropped to $4.50 a little about 2 yrs. ago

it easily goes back to previous levels....

based on what I do for a living always being in the field, it's ~2k bonus moving forward.....that's free money for me...

it's pretty simple to pick shite up over the year, stage it, and do a one time haul at the end of the year....

#moreuntraceableincome

Tariffs may (or may not, in the long term usually not) one sector of the economy, but they necessarily hurt every other part of that economy. So net net, a loss.

We've been f'ed over for 3 decades by the rest of the world. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. 20 trillion in debt and millions of jobs lost. Yeah, this has been a great run for middle America.

(03-02-2018 10:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tariffs may (or may not, in the long term usually not) one sector of the economy, but they necessarily hurt every other part of that economy. So net net, a loss.

again, I'm afraid he set this 'bar' too high....

I agree with an adjustment in principle, but believe he overshot setting this benchmark.....

this one can trigger pseudo inflation (i.e. Katrina oil pricing)

this has always been my problem with supply/demand vs. wages and why capitalism has achieved critical mass in debt to gdp ratio resulting in a wealth gap that is overwhelming....

(03-02-2018 09:02 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Most would call it a bank.

That got an LOL!

Good day for trump buddy Carl Icahn too. I'm sure it was just a coincidence.

Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week

(03-02-2018 10:52 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  We've been f'ed over for 3 decades by the rest of the world. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. 20 trillion in debt and millions of jobs lost. Yeah, this has been a great run for middle America.

So use the tool they used to do it to us—consumption taxes.

(03-02-2018 11:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2018 10:52 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  We've been f'ed over for 3 decades by the rest of the world. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. 20 trillion in debt and millions of jobs lost. Yeah, this has been a great run for middle America.

So use the tool they used to do it to us—consumption taxes.

Like those luxury taxes?

(03-02-2018 11:37 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(03-02-2018 11:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2018 10:52 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  We've been f'ed over for 3 decades by the rest of the world. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. 20 trillion in debt and millions of jobs lost. Yeah, this has been a great run for middle America.

So use the tool they used to do it to us—consumption taxes.

Like those luxury taxes?

Nope.