I'm betting my last dollar that John McCain was a willing, useful idiot in this.
When the FBI went before the FISA judge they hinted that the dossier was political research and that it was handed to them by .... never Trumper Uncle John. They forgot to tell the judge how he got it and who he got it from and who paid for it.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018 05:55 AM by ODU BLUE.)
(02-27-2018 06:03 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Good. It will be interesting to see all the abuses by the GOP appointed judges.
You still don't get it, do you? We don't care how they vote, what they call themselves, or to whom they donate in political races. We want them to follow the law, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly. I don't care about party. i care about the rule of law. I think most Americans just want the truth to come out...and people brought to justice. That being said. If you can believe certain media reports. Samantha Power is in big trouble and perhaps Susan Rice.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 10:53 AM by No Bull.)
(02-28-2018 09:47 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I'm not convinced Sessions is the bulldog needed. He's part of the old guard.
You said a mouthfull there. Oh how I wish Gowdy had been interested in that job from the beginning.
Assuming the DOJ does a proper job investigating FISA warrant abuse by the FBI, and assuming what we know today about the Carter Page affair is the complete story, then there is no way in hell that the FBI should have sought a warrant to surveil him and wrongdoing on the part of the FBI should be found. I'm convinced this was simply a backdoor means for the Obama administration (via the FBI) to spy on the Trump campaign.
Knowing the information that's in the public domain today, I challenge any liberal here to lay out a case where the FISA warrant against Carter Page was the justified. Before doing so though, I suggest you read this, all of it.
(02-28-2018 01:15 PM)fsquid Wrote: I hope they do it and I can't wait to see the results.
The IG is supposedly almost complete with his investigation into the Cankles Server Fiasco. I don't know if he's got the FISA warrants on his plate as well, but if he does, expect a thorough investigation. The guy carries water for no one.
(02-27-2018 08:37 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: OK, I agree with you. So, if nothing comes of it, please don't cry politics! If people get indicted, I won't cry politics. Let the chips fall where they may, just like in Muellers investigation.
Democrats warned when the Patriot Act and all the post-911 laws came into effect that it would be abused against Americans. They were right, it apparently has been.
If some Democratic hacks get in trouble for it, we ought to remember that we can't blame Democrats alone for it coming to be.
Its non-partisan, and everyone now should want it fixed and reformed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
I would bet this is not the first misuse of the FISA act.
There are a couple of other very curious happenings since the passing of the patriot act. Total power of government to spy on its citizens is total power to destroy.
I would bet A LOT that it's not.
I would bet that there were plenty of violations during both the Bush and Obama administrations.
When these “warrants” are approved at a rate in excess of 99%, I think we can all be pretty sure there have been serious abuses along the way. This is the very definition of a rubber stamp.
(02-27-2018 06:03 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Good. It will be interesting to see all the abuses by the GOP appointed judges.
You still don't get it, do you? We don't care how they vote, what they call themselves, or to whom they donate in political races. We want them to follow the law, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly. I don't care about party. i care about the rule of law. I think most Americans just want the truth to come out...and people brought to justice. That being said. If you can believe certain media reports. Samantha Power is in big trouble and perhaps Susan Rice.
I think most Americans don’t know the first thing about this, nor do they care to learn.
(02-27-2018 06:03 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Good. It will be interesting to see all the abuses by the GOP appointed judges.
You still don't get it, do you? We don't care how they vote, what they call themselves, or to whom they donate in political races. We want them to follow the law, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly. I don't care about party. i care about the rule of law. I think most Americans just want the truth to come out...and people brought to justice. That being said. If you can believe certain media reports. Samantha Power is in big trouble and perhaps Susan Rice.
I think most Americans don’t know the first thing about this, nor do they care to learn.
Now, ask em about Kardashians or Ellen, and...
I think people have started to tune out FISA and Russia issues. I blame the media. No one really knows where to get real unbiased reporting these days.
(02-27-2018 06:03 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Good. It will be interesting to see all the abuses by the GOP appointed judges.
You still don't get it, do you? We don't care how they vote, what they call themselves, or to whom they donate in political races. We want them to follow the law, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly. I don't care about party. i care about the rule of law. I think most Americans just want the truth to come out...and people brought to justice. That being said. If you can believe certain media reports. Samantha Power is in big trouble and perhaps Susan Rice.
I think most Americans don’t know the first thing about this, nor do they care to learn.
Now, ask em about Kardashians or Ellen, and...
I think people have started to tune out FISA and Russia issues. I blame the media. No one really knows where to get real unbiased reporting these days.
I'd have to agree there, just let me know when Mueller is done.
(02-27-2018 08:37 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: OK, I agree with you. So, if nothing comes of it, please don't cry politics! If people get indicted, I won't cry politics. Let the chips fall where they may, just like in Muellers investigation.
Democrats warned when the Patriot Act and all the post-911 laws came into effect that it would be abused against Americans. They were right, it apparently has been.
If some Democratic hacks get in trouble for it, we ought to remember that we can't blame Democrats alone for it coming to be.
Its non-partisan, and everyone now should want it fixed and reformed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
I would bet this is not the first misuse of the FISA act.
There are a couple of other very curious happenings since the passing of the patriot act. Total power of government to spy on its citizens is total power to destroy.
I would bet A LOT that it's not.
I would bet that there were plenty of violations during both the Bush and Obama administrations.
When these “warrants” are approved at a rate in excess of 99%, I think we can all be pretty sure there have been serious abuses along the way. This is the very definition of a rubber stamp.
Banana republic type stuff...
...or that they don't bother bringing forth cases for the court unless they have the goods.
(02-27-2018 06:03 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Good. It will be interesting to see all the abuses by the GOP appointed judges.
You still don't get it, do you? We don't care how they vote, what they call themselves, or to whom they donate in political races. We want them to follow the law, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly. I don't care about party. i care about the rule of law. I think most Americans just want the truth to come out...and people brought to justice. That being said. If you can believe certain media reports. Samantha Power is in big trouble and perhaps Susan Rice.
I think most Americans don’t know the first thing about this, nor do they care to learn.
Now, ask em about Kardashians or Ellen, and...
I have never, ever, ever, clicked on anything related to the Kardahians or Jenners but Google News, Apple, YouTube, Facebook, etc. insist on recommending stories and videos about them.
Similarly, I have never watched one second of Steven Colbert but YouTube insists on recommending his stuff to me prominently.
It is so bad that I tried going into Google settings and blocking but it seems to have no effect.
Its no wonder people know about these people when it is being force fed for some reason.
So everyone seems to be relatively pleased with this announcement - except Donald Trump.
His tweet this morning was....
Why is A.G. Jeff Sessions asking the Inspector General to investigate potentially massive FISA abuse. Will take forever, has no prosecutorial power and already late with reports on Comey etc. Isn’t the I.G. an Obama guy? Why not use Justice Department lawyers? DISGRACEFUL!
This also comes a day after Sarah Huckabee Sanders said it is the Justice Department's responsibility to investigate claims of FISA abuses and that the White House would support the probe.
"I think that’s the role of the Department of Justice, and we’re glad that they’re fulfilling that job," she said.
Once again, Trump doesn't seem to be much of a team player - even with his own team. But I'm sure his meetings in the White House are going something like this....
(02-28-2018 08:52 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: So, is this an example of the Establishment Repubs vs the Trump? If Trump is so weary of Sessions, why doesn't he fire him?
From the wording in his tweets, I suspect Trump wants Sessions to designate a Special Prosecutor to investigate the FBI's use of FISA warrants. In my opinion, they really had no reason to get one on Carter Page other than looking for a back door to spy on the Trump campaign.
(02-28-2018 08:52 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: So, is this an example of the Establishment Repubs vs the Trump? If Trump is so weary of Sessions, why doesn't he fire him?
From the wording in his tweets, I suspect Trump wants Sessions to designate a Special Prosecutor to investigate the FBI's use of FISA warrants. In my opinion, they really had no reason to get one on Carter Page other than looking for a back door to spy on the Trump campaign.
You know what they say about those.....
And a couple key points:
1. Page was also under warrant in 2014 before he joined the campaign.
2. The second warrant was issued after he left the trump campaign.
3. That second warrant was renewed 3 times.
(02-28-2018 08:52 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: So, is this an example of the Establishment Repubs vs the Trump? If Trump is so weary of Sessions, why doesn't he fire him?
From the wording in his tweets, I suspect Trump wants Sessions to designate a Special Prosecutor to investigate the FBI's use of FISA warrants. In my opinion, they really had no reason to get one on Carter Page other than looking for a back door to spy on the Trump campaign.
You know what they say about those.....
And a couple key points:
1. Page was also under warrant in 2014 before he joined the campaign.
2. The second warrant was issued after he left the trump campaign.
3. That second warrant was renewed 3 times.
Page was also interviewed numerous times, willingly and without a lawyer present, by the FBI and never charged with lying to the FBI. Based on FBI records, they couldn't say the same about Christopher Steele.
Page also provided information that helped the FBI charge a Russian citizen with espionage.
Why not just call him in and ask him some more questions? I suspect the answer is that doing that wouldn't allow them to look at his past correspondence with other members of Trump's team.
(02-28-2018 08:52 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: So, is this an example of the Establishment Repubs vs the Trump? If Trump is so weary of Sessions, why doesn't he fire him?
From the wording in his tweets, I suspect Trump wants Sessions to designate a Special Prosecutor to investigate the FBI's use of FISA warrants. In my opinion, they really had no reason to get one on Carter Page other than looking for a back door to spy on the Trump campaign.
You know what they say about those.....
And a couple key points:
1. Page was also under warrant in 2014 before he joined the campaign.
Which is relevant only in the fact that the 2014 warrant turned up nothing. Which is why the initial request for a warrant in 2016 was DENIED. It was denied at least once, and possibly twice.
2. The second warrant was issued after he left the trump campaign.
The second warrant was granted only after the FBI used the fake and unverified dossier. We know it was unverified because Comey testified that it was still unverified 3 months after they used the fake dossier to get a warrant.
3. That second warrant was renewed 3 times. Due to using the fake and unverified dossier.
The bolded parts are the reason that the DOJ is being asked to investigate and prosecute members of the FBI who used the fake dossier to get the warrant on Carter Page. It is against federal statutes to use unverified information on a fisa request. Yet, we know the dates the fake dossier was used, and we have Comey's testimony that it was salacious and unverified months after it was illegally used.
(02-27-2018 08:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote: Democrats warned when the Patriot Act and all the post-911 laws came into effect that it would be abused against Americans. They were right, it apparently has been.
If some Democratic hacks get in trouble for it, we ought to remember that we can't blame Democrats alone for it coming to be.
Its non-partisan, and everyone now should want it fixed and reformed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
I would bet this is not the first misuse of the FISA act.
There are a couple of other very curious happenings since the passing of the patriot act. Total power of government to spy on its citizens is total power to destroy.
I would bet A LOT that it's not.
I would bet that there were plenty of violations during both the Bush and Obama administrations.
When these “warrants” are approved at a rate in excess of 99%, I think we can all be pretty sure there have been serious abuses along the way. This is the very definition of a rubber stamp.
Banana republic type stuff...
...or that they don't bother bringing forth cases for the court unless they have the goods.
