(02-24-2018 11:50 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 10:06 AM)payday Wrote:  With all the complaints...Cronin is just one deep Tourney run from being Cincy’s best coach since Jucker. An annual NCAA Tourney team and Top 25 program...and all done the right way and with the right kids.

Huh??? One deep tourney run to be equivalent to Jucker?

From wikipedia:

Edwin Louis Jucker (July 8, 1916 – February 2, 2002) was an American college basketball player and coach in both the NBA and college basketball, leading the University of Cincinnati to back-to-back national titles in 1961 and 1962 and runner-up in 1963.

Mick Cronin is not even close to that level of success...His career more closely tracks Ed Badger.

You have no connection to reality.

Perhaps Gale Catlett.

(02-24-2018 10:31 AM)EffinBJ Wrote:  This has descended into mockery, and it was a fair observation. That's the only sad part of this conversation. My Dad mentioned the same things OP to me after the Uconn game, and I absolutely agreed with him, because it's obvious and also getting worse.

None of the posters has argued that we need an unfailingly positive Kerry Combs type. Most successful CBB coaches are commonly red-faced and screaming. But you also see them clapping their players on the back when they come out when they're playing well. They treat their players and assistants with a modicum of respect. Huggins would scream at you but you'd often get a bear hug at the end of a successful game that told you - and the arena - that you'd comported yourself well and that he was proud of you. If a bearcat takes over a game for a stretch his best case scenario is that Mick ignores him as he walks to the bench, waiting for the player he's targeted for a dressing down. And while it's fine to correct poor technique, it's just common decency not to embarrass a guy. That's what sets Mick off when he goes after a Ref or opposing player. Famously, Huggy let you yell back. You think Mick does?

I think it's a fair point that we haven't had players transfer out, and I've been a Mick supporter from the start. Outside of a small number of players that wouldn't even fill a lineup, his guys have represented the university well on and off the court. He doesn't seem to be caught up in the worst aspects of the CBB system that are currently being uncovered in the FBI investigation, and I know that gives most of us pride. But when a coach crosses the line into abusiveness that can implode a program as quickly as corruption or some kind of criminal incident. Mike Rice at Rutgers, Longren at GW, Leach at Texas Tech, Knight at Indiana and his son again at Texas Tech, Mangino at Kansas - that's just a sampling.

Another completely valid point that OP made was that Mick's behavior may play into the tentativeness or individual offensive regression the team and players often show. We ***** about those things in every game thread, but a sensible theory like "the guys are scared of making a mistake or missing a shot" is ridiculous? I don't know how many of you played team sports, or if you have had coaches that are this confrontational, but I've had some that were overly focused on the negative, and it can absolutely get into your head.

A common theory here is that we need some offensive guru assistant that will give us the offensive chops to go with Mick's defense. Could that even happen? Mick spends as much time yelling at assistants as he does the players. and rarely do you see an assistant coaching up players on the bench - even less common do you see one giving input to the whole team during a timeout. Larry Davis looks like he's terrified most of the time when Mick's talking to him.

Mick's an honest, thoughtful guy in interviews, and I agree that it's out of bounds to suggest that he's like this with his kid - he seems devoted to her, sweet in his treatment, and she's an engaging, sunny girl. But one guy's comment shouldn't become the straw man to avoid having an honest conversation as to what's going on with Mick's anger issues. I'll never agree that "it's worth it" to cheat, but I think it helps everyone to come to their own conclusion when the discussion happens on the board.

Let's not forget that this sort of intensity and anger almost killed the guy with an aneurysm, if nothing else.

I already said that Cronin yells and screams too much for my liking, but almost everything in the post is nonsense.

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

I think Payday is talking about total person though. So yeah, we've had some coaches with deeper runs between Jucker and Cronin but most of them have either questionable recruits, DUI's, major infractions, graduation rate nightmares, kids going to class nightmares or a combination of thereof.

Cronin has done well without any of that nonsense.

Is it safe to say that Mick is somewhere between Tony Yates and Ed Jucker (height and hairstyle not withstanding)?

(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

Are you illiterate? Or just a moron? I also said IF he has a deep Tourney run!

(02-24-2018 10:06 AM)payday Wrote:  With all the complaints...Cronin is just one deep Tourney run from being Cincy’s best coach since Jucker. An annual NCAA Tourney team and Top 25 program...and all done the right way and with the right kids.

Again...Focus.

(02-23-2018 10:02 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  From what I've seen he has turned into a raging lunatic on the sideline that is incapable of teaching without screaming at a player or assistant. When was the last time he provided encouragement or even looked to commend a player for their play? Mick has always been a screamer but I think it's reached an alarming level these past few games.

Has anyone else noticed this?

sure weren't many complaints of that back in the BOB Huggins era, ya know it?
keep screaming, Coach Mick. Record speaks for itself, sir.

(02-24-2018 01:07 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 11:50 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 10:06 AM)payday Wrote:  With all the complaints...Cronin is just one deep Tourney run from being Cincy’s best coach since Jucker. An annual NCAA Tourney team and Top 25 program...and all done the right way and with the right kids.

Huh??? One deep tourney run to be equivalent to Jucker?

From wikipedia:

Edwin Louis Jucker (July 8, 1916 – February 2, 2002) was an American college basketball player and coach in both the NBA and college basketball, leading the University of Cincinnati to back-to-back national titles in 1961 and 1962 and runner-up in 1963.

Mick Cronin is not even close to that level of success...His career more closely tracks Ed Badger.

You have no connection to reality.

Perhaps Gale Catlett.

trying to figure out when Coach Catlett led a bearcat bb team deep in the ncaa tourney? care to elaborate?

(02-24-2018 09:43 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Say what you want about Cronin's "sideline demeanor," but this is the moment where "he runs a clean program" pays off.

Thank you, Mick... While fans of other teams are sweating right now (Go check out the "XavierHoops" forum for evidence), UC is not on anyone's radar screens. I've been critical of some of the sideline antics, but the fact that UC doesn't have a whiff of bad odor right now buys a lot of leeway in my book.

a double Amen, Bearcat Jerry.

(02-24-2018 09:57 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 09:43 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Say what you want about Cronin's "sideline demeanor," but this is the moment where "he runs a clean program" pays off.

Thank you, Mick... While fans of other teams are sweating right now (Go check out the "XavierHoops" forum for evidence), UC is not on anyone's radar screens. I've been critical of some of the sideline antics, but the fact that UC doesn't have a whiff of bad odor right now buys a lot of leeway in my book.

a double Amen, Bearcat Jerry.

Make that triple Spot on Jerry.

(02-24-2018 06:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

Are you illiterate? Or just a moron? I also said IF he has a deep Tourney run!

2 deep tourney runs in over a decade and he would rank better than Baker or Huggins? The regular season winning percentages don't bear it out, and neither would tourney winning percentage. You fail on both counts.

Again--you and reality are strangers.

(02-25-2018 07:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 06:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

Are you illiterate? Or just a moron? I also said IF he has a deep Tourney run!

2 deep tourney runs in over a decade and he would rank better than Baker or Huggins? The regular season winning percentages don't bear it out, and neither would tourney winning percentage. You fail on both counts.

Again--you and reality are strangers.

Huggins did final 4, then next year missed final 4 on screw job vs NC in OT.

As much as I loved Huggins, UC was plagued throughout by ncaa investigations and negative media perceptions brought on themselves. And he closed with one S16 in the last nine. One deep run now (final four) by Cronin with a clean program trumps what he did. IMO.

The grad rates, the drunk drivings, the punched horses, the tying up of room mates, the gun issues...those are long gone and it’s other programs that are now known for their thuggery. While UC climbs the polls every year.

(02-25-2018 08:13 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 07:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 06:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 12:05 PM)payday Wrote:  Since Jucker. Focus

You still aren't even remotely close--we've had several coaches with more tourney success than Cronin over a similar timespan since Jucker.

Going to the tourney and losing in the 1st weekend is NOT a great accomplishment. Many mediocre programs can tout multiple trips to the tourney only to get wiped out in the 1st round. It's meaningless.

What matters is a DEEP tourney run.

Cronin has only had one.

Many coaches between Jucker and Cronin have had multiple deep runs.

You are disconnected from reality.

Are you illiterate? Or just a moron? I also said IF he has a deep Tourney run!

2 deep tourney runs in over a decade and he would rank better than Baker or Huggins? The regular season winning percentages don't bear it out, and neither would tourney winning percentage. You fail on both counts.

Again--you and reality are strangers.

Huggins did final 4, then next year missed final 4 on screw job vs NC in OT.

well...it didn't help that Van Exel had 90% of his points in the first half that game. Also, Terrance Gibson had a defensive breakdown either near the end of regulation or in OT (cant remember which one) that was an absolute back-breaker. Also, there wouldn't have been OT if the UNC guy messed up what should have been a dunk for the win at the buzzer in regulation if I recall correctly so in that regard, the fact it went to OT, UC was fortunate.

(02-25-2018 09:42 AM)payday Wrote:  As much as I loved Huggins, UC was plagued throughout by ncaa investigations and negative media perceptions brought on themselves. And he closed with one S16 in the last nine. One deep run now (final four) by Cronin with a clean program trumps what he did. IMO.

~` PUFF * PUFF * PASS `~
- and I even like Mick.

(02-25-2018 07:04 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 09:57 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  

(02-24-2018 09:43 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Say what you want about Cronin's "sideline demeanor," but this is the moment where "he runs a clean program" pays off.

Thank you, Mick... While fans of other teams are sweating right now (Go check out the "XavierHoops" forum for evidence), UC is not on anyone's radar screens. I've been critical of some of the sideline antics, but the fact that UC doesn't have a whiff of bad odor right now buys a lot of leeway in my book.

a double Amen, Bearcat Jerry.

Make that triple Spot on Jerry.

Great perspective.

Here's some of what Gary Clark thinks -

On what he is going to miss the most about leaving UC:
"Honestly, people may not believe me but that moment where I mess up and I purposely don't look at coach and he is over there just throwing a fit because he is trying to get my attention and I purposefully don't look at him. I will probably miss that because what if I had looked at him? What is he doing right now? That is probably it."

http://gobearcats.com/news/2018/2/25/men...tulsa.aspx

During the interview with Dan and Terry Clark also said "sometimes when their coach is getting on them, they forget or they get unconfident about their decision making in their defense or offense. I try to them the calm down, trust youself..."