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Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
The fan support would be there too. They don't have any less fan support than Southland schools and could still play HBCU's OOC.
02-22-2018 10:10 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 10:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The fan support would be there too. They don't have any less fan support than Southland schools and could still play HBCU's OOC.

What I'm talking about is Alabama State, TSU, and PV fans showing up for their home games - home attendance, the lifeblood of an FCS program.

I have grave doubts that, e.g., Alabama State fans will show up to see their team play The Citadel, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, etc.

And the "still play OOC" thing doesn't usually work out. Sounds good, as in "yes, TAMU is joining the SEC, but we can still play Texas OOC!" Doesn't usually work that way.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018 12:11 PM by quo vadis.)
02-22-2018 12:08 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
HBCU's actually have much fewer issues with attendance than, say, Rice or any number of smaller schools. They may not have as much in the way of absolute numbers as some but their attendance would remain similar if they left an HBCU conference. Especially in the case of PV and TSU, who are in or on the edge of a major metro area. Alabama State has the resources to compete at a higher level if they so chose.
02-22-2018 12:51 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
Attendance is half meaningless if the tickets are nearly free. ECU has great attendance, but small gate receipts, only 60% of what Cincy gets, which is only 50% of what Rutgers gets.

HBCU gates are very small, even with fulerl stadiums. It's a paradox, a culture of free or nearly free tickets and pocket change only donations.
02-22-2018 02:57 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
That's not really the point. The HBCU's are never going to compete with the Ohio States of the world or even the Middle Tennessees of the world.

The point is that some can actually move up if they wanted and still do okay financially and in the stands. And there's actually an example of this in Tennessee State, who has proven they can stay D-I without being in an HBCU conference.
02-22-2018 05:49 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 12:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  HBCU's actually have much fewer issues with attendance than, say, Rice or any number of smaller schools. They may not have as much in the way of absolute numbers as some but their attendance would remain similar if they left an HBCU conference. Especially in the case of PV and TSU, who are in or on the edge of a major metro area. Alabama State has the resources to compete at a higher level if they so chose.

HBCU's often have excellent attendance, by FCS standards. IIRC, the SWAC led the FCS in attendance last year, averaging about 14,000 a game, compared to 10,000 per game for the second-place MVC. SWAC led in 2016 as well.

But, I think the reason for that is because they are playing other HBCUs who they have a deep affinity with. Prairie View plays Grambling? PVU fans care and show up.

PVU plays Nicholls State? They might care considerably less.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018 05:55 PM by quo vadis.)
02-22-2018 05:54 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 02:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Attendance is half meaningless if the tickets are nearly free. ECU has great attendance, but small gate receipts, only 60% of what Cincy gets, which is only 50% of what Rutgers gets.

HBCU gates are very small, even with fulerl stadiums. It's a paradox, a culture of free or nearly free tickets and pocket change only donations.

The gates are surely small by comparison to "big time" standards, but for the schools, those dollars count a whole lot and go a long way.

Plus, the dollars can be reasonably significant. E.g., when Grambling and Southern play in the Bayou Classic, they draw around 60,000, and most of those 60,000 get in by paying a non-trivial amount for a ticket.
02-22-2018 05:59 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 05:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 12:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  HBCU's actually have much fewer issues with attendance than, say, Rice or any number of smaller schools. They may not have as much in the way of absolute numbers as some but their attendance would remain similar if they left an HBCU conference. Especially in the case of PV and TSU, who are in or on the edge of a major metro area. Alabama State has the resources to compete at a higher level if they so chose.

HBCU's often have excellent attendance, by FCS standards. IIRC, the SWAC led the FCS in attendance last year, averaging about 14,000 a game, compared to 10,000 per game for the second-place MVC. SWAC led in 2016 as well.

But, I think the reason for that is because they are playing other HBCUs who they have a deep affinity with. Prairie View plays Grambling? PVU fans care and show up.

PVU plays Nicholls State? They might care considerably less.

Based on what?

Prairie View drew more to a Thursday night game with Sam Houston than they did to a Saturday afternoon game with Jackson State last season.

I would fo deeper than that but like most SWAC teams Prairie View doesn't schedule many non-HBCU FCS games OOC.
02-22-2018 06:30 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 05:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 12:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  HBCU's actually have much fewer issues with attendance than, say, Rice or any number of smaller schools. They may not have as much in the way of absolute numbers as some but their attendance would remain similar if they left an HBCU conference. Especially in the case of PV and TSU, who are in or on the edge of a major metro area. Alabama State has the resources to compete at a higher level if they so chose.

HBCU's often have excellent attendance, by FCS standards. IIRC, the SWAC led the FCS in attendance last year, averaging about 14,000 a game, compared to 10,000 per game for the second-place MVC. SWAC led in 2016 as well.

But, I think the reason for that is because they are playing other HBCUs who they have a deep affinity with. Prairie View plays Grambling? PVU fans care and show up.

PVU plays Nicholls State? They might care considerably less.

Often times at least two of PV's games are at neutral sites, both for Grambling in Dallas and TSU at the Texans stadium though that's gone back to home and home lately IIRC. In any event, while being an HBCU helps, they and TSU aren't getting a major kick out of Alcorn, Valley, Pine Bluff and Alabama A&M coming in. They'd get more of a bang if they got to still play each other and also have the mostly Texas and Louisana Southland to play and earn slightly more money with.

It's not like they couldn't still play two or three OOC games against HBCU's.
02-22-2018 07:22 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
PV versus Nicholls State isn't considerably worse than half the SWAC games.
02-22-2018 07:25 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-22-2018 07:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  PV versus Nicholls State isn't considerably worse than half the SWAC games.

I don't think we'll ever find out, because I don't think PV is leaving the SWAC.

And one reason for that is i think PV's admins know their fan base would much rather play Grambling and Southern every year than Nicholls and Northwestern State, because they have deep HBCU ties to the former but not the latter.

But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018 07:32 PM by quo vadis.)
02-22-2018 07:30 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
No, neither is leaving the SWAC without some HBCU partners but if they did, they could certainly play in and compete in the Southland.
02-22-2018 07:40 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
I don't know the situation with any other HBCU but Arkansas-Pine Bluff has a number of businesses that provide services and goods to the athletic department and are willing to provide those free or at a discount in exchange for large blocks of tickets. Anyone paying to attend a UAPB game did so because they made a decision to pay.

Back to Hampton.
I know they expect travel costs to fall but it looks like they will end up spending more in the Big South than in the MEAC to be competitive.
02-23-2018 09:36 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-21-2018 01:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 11:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 12:15 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I have fond memories of Hampton going on a 9-0 run in the last 2:00 to pull off a 15-2 shocker.

Is moving to Big South actually a good move? They give up the timeless Howard/Hampton rivalry and don’t really gain anything in Hoops prestige.

Hampton has experience with this, they were a member of the CIAA for 83 years before joining the MEAC in 1995, so the MEAC roots don't run so deep.

That said, I don't think the Big South does anything for Hampton. HBCU football is about the HBCU family, I have doubts as to whether the Hampton fan base will get excited by playing Big South schools. Like you say, they might lose the 100+ years of the Howard rivalry, and also probably Norfolk State as well.

Seems like a bold/risky move to me, which in theory I like, but is playing High Point and Winthrop and Gardner-Webb really that big a step up from the MEAC? IMO the payoff isn't there.

The most ideal conference IMO is the Atlantic Sun or Southern Conference. The Big South is a step down because, as you noted, they leave behind their rivalries for what is a minimal rise in competition, if at all.

avg seed for the conferences last 10 years- BS 15.3 MEAC 15.5
# of 1st 4 appearances- MEAC 4 BS 3
avg KP conf rank- BS 25.9 MEAC 30.6

It's a much better conference from a transportation standpoint. And they are giong to still play some MEAC teams I'm sure OOC.
02-23-2018 09:53 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
Your stats seem to bare out my point. The Atlantic Sun probably would have been better from certain angles.
02-23-2018 09:59 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
Atlantic Sun-
Avg seed 14.9
1st Four spots- 2
avg KP rank 24.1

so really very little difference between Atlantic Sun and Big South. Definitely not enough to counteract the transportation difference which is huge. The closest ASun team is further away than the furthest Big South Team.
02-23-2018 10:11 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-23-2018 09:59 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Your stats seem to bare out my point. The Atlantic Sun probably would have been better from certain angles.

The Big South is more geographically appealing -- three Virginia schools (Liberty, Radford, Longwood), and High Point is less than four hours away. The A-Sun is Florida heavy; the nearest school to Hampton is what, Kennesaw State? NJIT?
02-23-2018 10:13 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-23-2018 09:59 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Your stats seem to bare out my point. The Atlantic Sun probably would have been better from certain angles.

Because of the likeness in geographical reach? NJIT to Delaware State and UNF and FGCU to FAMU? True...but ASun is the stepping stone to Big South. Not always (NKU), but usually.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 10:24 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
02-23-2018 10:23 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
Yea, not sure there's a big difference between the Big South and Atlantic Sun in terms of competition (aside from the occasional particularly strong FGCU basketball team), but the travel is much better in the Big South and the league is likely much more accessible to Hampton alumni in terms of attending away games. Big South was probably the right small step up for them.
02-23-2018 11:08 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Hampton & MEAC getting testy as the split goes down
(02-23-2018 10:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Atlantic Sun-
Avg seed 14.9
1st Four spots- 2
avg KP rank 24.1

so really very little difference between Atlantic Sun and Big South. Definitely not enough to counteract the transportation difference which is huge. The closest ASun team is further away than the furthest Big South Team.

You should look for a median. Conferences like those have their average weighed down by fluke conference tournament winners.

The A-Sun was won 2 legit NCAA Tournament games and has a Sweet 16 this decade. Not counting First Four games, the Big South hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since Winthrop won one in 2007.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 07:31 AM by C2__.)
02-23-2018 04:26 PM
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