So if I understand the new MLB rule change correctly, they are now saying there are 6 mound visits allowed per game, whether it's a manager or coach, catcher or other position player? I'm assuming that anything over 6 means an automatic pitching change?

I guess that's a good rule because the catcher-pitcher visits are out of control. But I bet you players accidentally waste trips just out of old habits.

Do we think this is a change they should do in college as well?

IMO there should be no mound visits. You have the whole inning while batting to scheme to your hearts content With the pitcher

Additionally, in the event of a pitching change there should be zero allowed warm up pitches. In FB you don't get a Mulligan throw downfield and in BB a practice shot mid game.

Remove the time wasting and the sport would be a lot more fun to watch for the casual fan. In summary, yes - college should do the same (and hopefully more)

(02-19-2018 04:52 PM)Antarius Wrote:  IMO there should be no mound visits. You have the whole inning while batting to scheme to your hearts content With the pitcher

Additionally, in the event of a pitching change there should be zero allowed warm up pitches. In FB you don't get a Mulligan throw downfield and in BB a practice shot mid game.

Remove the time wasting and the sport would be a lot more fun to watch for the casual fan. In summary, yes - college should do the same (and hopefully more)

Yeah, the warm up pitches have never made any sense to me. If they want to make the bullpen pitches more realistic, then just stick a bench player in the bullpen and have them stand in the batter's box while the pitcher warms up with the catcher.

College already has the two mound visits rule (I believe), but would be in favor of limiting them throughout the game.

(02-19-2018 05:25 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 04:52 PM)Antarius Wrote:  ...in the event of a pitching change there should be zero allowed warm up pitches. In FB you don't get a Mulligan throw downfield and in BB a practice shot mid game.

Yeah, the warm up pitches have never made any sense to me. If they want to make the bullpen pitches more realistic, then just stick a bench player in the bullpen and have them stand in the batter's box while the pitcher warms up with the catcher.

I'd think that some warmup pitches would be needed for the pitcher to get acclimated to the real-field's rubber and mound. I doubt that the bullpen and real-field mounds would be identical, especially with respect to other pitchers' landing-foot divots.

Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.

Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.

There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.

Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.

Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.

There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.

Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

Requiring a backup goalie to be equipped and on the bench seems like a great idea. Lacrosse doesn't require that, and thus some teams only have one set of goalie equipment -- which means that when a goalie gets injured (or, more likely, commits a penalty), the team has to swap his equipment onto the new goalie, which is time-consuming (but not as bad as it would be in hockey -- lacrosse goalie equipment is much less extensive).

On the other hand, the idea of suiting up an otherwise ineligible player seems weird.

One of the other changes is that there is going to be a set amount of time for changes, whether between an inning or with a relief pitcher coming in. There are no guaranteed warm-up pitches any more, though it does appear there could be some wiggle room at the umpire's discretion. Will bullpen carts make a return?

Quote:Here are the new between inning commercial break times:

Regular season games: 2:05 (previously 2:25)
Nationally televised games: 2:25 (previously (2:45)
Postseason games: 2:55

As part of the shortened commercial breaks, pitchers can throw as many warm-up pitches as they want before the timer runs out, though they are no longer guaranteed eight warm-up pitches. Here are the actions required within the time limits:

25 seconds remaining: Umpires directs pitcher to complete final warm-up pitch.
20 seconds remaining: Batter is announced and must leave on-deck circle.
0 seconds remaining: Pitcher must begin to deliver a pitch to the batter.

The umpire can award the pitcher additional warm-up pitches under special circumstances, such as potential injury, the grounds crew tending to the field, or other on-field delays.

source: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-p...mmercials/

According to the same source, here are some of the exceptions that wouldn't count against the mound visit limit. I could see the spike cleaning abused.

Quote:The following does not count against each team's mount visit total:

A pitcher-catcher conference between batters.
An infielder goes to the mound to clean his spikes during rainy conditions.
Any visit involving a potential injury.
Any visit after a pinch-hitter is announced.

Also, if a team has exhausted their six mound visits, the umpire has the discretion to allow the catcher to visit the pitcher following a cross-up. The MLBPA had concerns about potential injuries resulting from the battery getting their signs mixed up.

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.

Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.

There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.

Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

And again, Tiki proves that he is our guru on this board for all things hockey. I’m in awe.
Especially since I know about as much about hockey as I do cricket.

(02-19-2018 07:23 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.

Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.

There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.

Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

Requiring a backup goalie to be equipped and on the bench seems like a great idea. Lacrosse doesn't require that, and thus some teams only have one set of goalie equipment -- which means that when a goalie gets injured (or, more likely, commits a penalty), the team has to swap his equipment onto the new goalie, which is time-consuming (but not as bad as it would be in hockey -- lacrosse goalie equipment is much less extensive).

On the other hand, the idea of suiting up an otherwise ineligible player seems weird.

It is interesting, but other than the equipment conundrum, not that different from soccer where your GK gets injured or sent off and you are out of subs - someone on the team - usually a defender gets to don the gloves and hope to god they don't commit a howler.

But yes - fascinating information. Thanks Tiki

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.
Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.
There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.
Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

Was it Lester Patrick who came off the bench as a coach to play goalie in a Stanley Cup game?

(02-19-2018 10:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.
Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.
There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.
Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

Was it Lester Patrick who came off the bench as a coach to play goalie in a Stanley Cup game?

Yes not only off the bench but from behind the bench. https://www.si.com/vault/1961/04/03/5810...yed-goalie
The Patrick’s are one of hockey’s royal families. Lester’s son Lynn was a 10 year NHL player and later GM for the Bruin and Blues. Lynn’s son Craig was a player but more famously was Herb Brooks assistant GM and assistant coach for the 1980 Miracle team. He later was a GM for the Penguins and guided them to two Cups. All three, plus Lester’s brother Frank, are in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

(02-19-2018 04:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  So if I understand the new MLB rule change correctly, they are now saying there are 6 mound visits allowed per game, whether it's a manager or coach, catcher or other position player? I'm assuming that anything over 6 means an automatic pitching change?

I guess that's a good rule because the catcher-pitcher visits are out of control. But I bet you players accidentally waste trips just out of old habits.

Do we think this is a change they should do in college as well?

Heard one of our Astros pitchers interviewed on the radio this morning, talking about that very subject. Can't remember who it was.

He said 95% of the catcher/pitcher mound visits are to change the signs. Apparently stealing signs is rampant in MLB. He was really irritated about it.

I don't know how they go about stealing signs - there was a mention about an Apple watch, or some such. They of course cover their mouths with their gloves when they are conversing.

(02-19-2018 06:31 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Up until 1988 replacing a goalie in the NHL (for any reason) resulted in a 2 minute period where he could take practice shots. This rule was abused by coaches who wanted a timeout, replaced the goalie, and then later replaced him again meaning another 2 minute warmup period.

Additional Goalie Minutiae....Dressed and on the bench backup goalies have only been required since 1965. Prior to that if a goalie was injured his place was taken by a trainer or someone in the arena with goalie experience.

There are still times when things can get interesting. If both dressed goalies are injured in quick succession the Referee may allow a 2 minute warmup for the new replacement goalie. However, if enough time has elapsed for the 3rd goalie to get dressed and on the bench prior to the second injury he is not automatically allowed a 2 minute warmup.

Now who is that 3rd goalie? Some teams at home may have a 3rd goalie in attendance if they rotate goalies or if one of the other two is coming back from injury. A regular suited player cannot be put in the nets unless both goalies are injured. League rules also say the 3rd goalie can be any available goalie. In the last few years there have been instances where retired goalies have been pulled out of the stands, dressed and sat on the bench as the 3rd goalie. A University of Toronto goalie (who happened to be a Canadiens fan) also was called mid game to become the emergency goalie. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs...-habs-fan/

A year or two ago one of the Hurricanes' goalies fell ill on gameday and since there was no time to call up a backup from the minors, the equipment manager, Jorge Alves - who plays goalie in practice when they need the extra body - became the backup. Being the equipment manager, he got to make up his own sweater and sew his name on it. Carolina pulled the starter with about seven seconds left in the game so Jorge could have an official NHL appearance. For a while after that, the team sold "Alves #40" tees in the team store, I've seen a few around town.