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Good offense > Good defense
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jarr Offline
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Good offense > Good defense
Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.
 
02-18-2018 07:06 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
Good science, math and logic > emotional knee-jerk over-reactions based upon a very small sample size.
 
02-18-2018 07:26 PM
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crex043 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
Good offense > bad defense

Also, their offense was precisely 5.56% better than ours was today.
 
02-18-2018 07:44 PM
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jarr Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:26 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Good science, math and logic > emotional knee-jerk over-reactions based upon a very small sample size.

This isn't knee jerk. This is based on the past 25 years of Bearcat basketball. Great defense, except when we play really good offensive teams and they seem to score anyway, because that is what they do, and we are not going win many games that end up in the 70's and 80's. Teams like WSU and X simply.aren't going to be held to 50-60 points, not going to happen.
 
02-18-2018 07:46 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:46 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:26 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Good science, math and logic > emotional knee-jerk over-reactions based upon a very small sample size.

This isn't knee jerk. This is based on the past 25 years of Bearcat basketball. Great defense, except when we play really good offensive teams and they seem to score anyway, because that is what they do, and we are not going win many games that end up in the 70's and 80's. Teams like WSU and X simply.aren't going to be held to 50-60 points, not going to happen.

except Houston held WSU to 59 points in a win earlier this year...
 
02-18-2018 07:49 PM
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skyblade Online
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:06 PM)jarr Wrote:  Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.

Virginia would argue that, they've shut-down quite a few good to great offensive teams this year.

I would agree that when it comes to the bearcats under Mick Cronin, our defense does not stop good offesive teams.
 
02-18-2018 07:52 PM
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Bearcat01 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
We haven't played a team that could match our length or athleticism this year besides UCLA or FL. No way we should be getting punked by UH or WSU. Have learn switch it up Mick
 
02-18-2018 07:54 PM
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Bearcat01 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:52 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:06 PM)jarr Wrote:  Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.

Virginia would argue that, they've shut-down quite a few good to great offensive teams this year.

I would agree that when it comes to the bearcats under Mick Cronin, our defense does not stop good offesive teams.
We get punked too much.
 
02-18-2018 07:56 PM
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jarr Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:52 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:06 PM)jarr Wrote:  Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.

Virginia would argue that, they've shut-down quite a few good to great offensive teams this year.

I would agree that when it comes to the bearcats under Mick Cronin, our defense does not stop good offesive teams.

I agree that Virginia is on a whole other level with defense, similar to the 2015 UK team. A truly great dominant defense is a little different. This team doesn't actually have the physical size and athletecism to be on that level. But even that UK team ran into the best offensive team that year (Wisconsin), and they were able to get the game in the 70's, UK didn't have enough answers for them.
 
02-18-2018 07:56 PM
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Bearcat01 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:56 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:52 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:06 PM)jarr Wrote:  Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.

Virginia would argue that, they've shut-down quite a few good to great offensive teams this year.

I would agree that when it comes to the bearcats under Mick Cronin, our defense does not stop good offesive teams.

I agree that Virginia is on a whole other level with defense, similar to the 2015 UK team. A truly great dominant defense is a little different. This team doesn't actually have the physical size and athletecism to be on that level. But even that UK team ran into the best offensive team that year (Wisconsin), and they were able to get the game in the 70's, UK didn't have enough answers for them.

JJ has better D than Ulis. Take away washington and add brooks we match up size and athleticism with them
 
02-18-2018 07:58 PM
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ucbrownsfan Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
The best player on the floors wins games... that's why I think Evans is still a year away.

It's not just good offense, it's having a guy that can do it all, with the ball in his hands.

Mick has learned that's why Jacob Evans is playing more point. That's why he stuck with Broome over JJ so much in the 2nd half. We could all see it, it just takes longer to deal with real people.
 
02-18-2018 09:22 PM
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DownOnRohs Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
Wichita’s spacing, movement, and passing ****** our defense up today. Not completely unlike UCLA in the tourney last year. We need better offense. I think we have the talent, we just don’t put any focus on beating a team with offense. Why can’t we do both, Coach?
 
02-18-2018 11:19 PM
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bearcatlawjd2 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 11:19 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Wichita’s spacing, movement, and passing ****** our defense up today. Not completely unlike UCLA in the tourney last year. We need better offense. I think we have the talent, we just don’t put any focus on beating a team with offense. Why can’t we do both, Coach?

Cats still struggle to slow down elite offense and UC's best players tend to get outplayed in games like yesterday. There is a lot on the line for the next couple of weeks. A conference championship is on the line every game. The conference tournament and NCAA tournament are all up grabs.
 
02-19-2018 08:23 AM
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50Cent Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:26 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Good science, math and logic > emotional knee-jerk over-reactions based upon a very small sample size.

There’s theory and there empirical evodence. Prediction vs experiment.

Well the data is in...

XU
Florida
Houston
Wichita St

It’s says the #2 kenPom defense isn’t good enough to beat top 25 teams. And quite possibly that loading up on cupcake state and little sisters of the poor U makes that ranking flawed.
 
02-19-2018 09:26 AM
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50Cent Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-18-2018 07:52 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:06 PM)jarr Wrote:  Blast away, but this is all there is to it. Good to great offensive teams just score anyway, you can make a UCF or a Memphis look pedestrian on offense, but WSU and Xavier scored comfortably against us. We simply don't have the talent offensively to punch back when they make tough shots.

Also, Jennifer should not see the floor the rest of the year. He is a huge liability on both sides if the court right now, Broome is not the reason we lost.

Virginia would argue that, they've shut-down quite a few good to great offensive teams this year.

I would agree that when it comes to the bearcats under Mick Cronin, our defense does not stop good offesive teams.

UCs defense is not as good as UVA nor as tested nor has it led to wins over one single top 25 team this year. Overrated.
 
02-19-2018 09:29 AM
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nachoman91 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
Look at the kenpom scores of the final four teams, final two teams, and the champions over the past 20 years.

In 90+% of the time, those teams that make the final four and farther have an offense ranked in the top 40 but more often ranked in the top 20.

No one ever wants to admit it, but offense is more important than defense. You can't win it all without both but you can get farther on offense.
 
02-19-2018 09:42 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
I agree with Mick's point from the press conference; if you can't hit shots on a consistent basis you need to be able to grab offensive rebounds and stick it back in the basket. We haven't done that enough the past few games.
 
02-19-2018 09:53 AM
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nachoman91 Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
National Champs

Kenpom O - Kenpom D

2017 UNC 9 - 11
2016 Nova 3 - 5
2015 Duke 3 - 11
2014 UConn 39 - 10
2013 Louisville 7 - 1
2012 Kentucky 2 - 7
2011 UConn - 15 - 19
2010 Duke 1 - 5
2009 UNC 1 - 18
2008 Kansas 2 - 1
2007 Florida 1 - 13
2006 Florida 3 - 7
2005 UNC 2 - 5

In only 3 of the past 13 years has a teams defense been better than its offense.

And the 2014 UConn team was a complete anomaly because they had a PG that could control and take over games. If your team has a perennial All-American PG that can control every aspect of the game offensively and defensively, can shoot from three, and get to the rim at will for layups or kickouts then the stats get thrown out the books and you can win at anytime.
 
02-19-2018 09:55 AM
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50Cent Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
How many times have we heard rebounding is effort related. How in the world do you get in this point of season...especially after a defeat and chance to take big step to win your league...and not have more effort. Wichita State came to play yesterday. UC showed up.

But we some will still hang their hat on beating a last four out UCLA and day this is a special team and this is a special season. Has Mick admitted he can’t get these guys to play hard...harder...this past week?
 
02-19-2018 09:58 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Good offense > Good defense
(02-19-2018 09:58 AM)50Cent Wrote:  How many times have we heard rebounding is effort related. How in the world do you get in this point of season...especially after a defeat and chance to take big step to win your league...and not have more effort. Wichita State came to play yesterday. UC showed up.

But we some will still hang their hat on beating a last four out UCLA and day this is a special team and this is a special season. Has Mick admitted he can’t get these guys to play hard...harder...this past week?

Effort is a part of it, but technique and skill level is another. Its one thing to grab all these rebounds when you are playing the stiffs they stiffs in the bottom half of this conference; effort is not going to play as big a role when you have another big guy who is playing with just as much effort on these better ball teams.
 
02-19-2018 10:01 AM
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