(02-19-2018 06:01 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  The data shared in the last few posts doesn’t support the notion that Pera is the problem. Coaches don't shoot free throws or threes. I also don’t believe that Pera was hired primarily in an effort to stem departures. Seems unlikely to me. It will be interesting to see what is done or not done if there is no progress next year. I just think there will be a lot of progress, so we won’t have to go there.

The timeline is why it seemed that way to me. If Pera was the HC-in-waiting, then he could and should have been announced immediately after Rhoades announced his departure. We didn't really have time in 6 days to mount a proper search.. so what exactly did we do in that time?
I see no benefit to waiting 6 days if Pera was originally the guy to be. The plausible scenario in my mind is a. Rhoades announces departure b. Rice begins to plan for replacement c. People start eyeing exits d. Rice tries to keep the crew together with Pera e. Everybody leaves. I am curious if anyone knows any more or has any alternate theories.
The broader issue is we as a University and department seem to like to wait until everything falls apart before acting or having a plan in place. We waited until Braun basically ruined the program before firing him. We waited far too long with Greenspan before kicking his sorry backside to the curb. We waiting for WTW for 4 years too many (same with Hatfield). Williams had to flounder for years before any change. Bailiff - 3-9 wasn't enough, so we had to hit rock bottom as the 3rd worst program in the country before making a change. Rhoades, we clearly didn't have a succession plan in place etc etc.
I just do not understand how and why it is so hard to act proactively.

Because it's a university and not a business. Successful athletic programs are run like businesses. Rice has always run its athletic program like a university. Took me a long time to realize that.

The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

(02-19-2018 07:13 PM)seniorowl Wrote:  That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

You and the others in this group need to be on JK's and the coaches short list of people to talk with recruits/players who use the "no pre-med" excuse.

(02-19-2018 07:13 PM)seniorowl Wrote:  That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

Yea, he wanted to transfer to a HBU. The premed stuff is a joke.

Quote:Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

This.

We knew that Rhoades was going to leave. So JK should have been very clear that Rhoades was always free to leave BUT he cannot take Any one with him and that releases would NOT be granted.

The same point should have been made clear to the players. No different than the Non-compete one signs when starting a job. Feel free to leave whenever (at will) but you damn well better not steal any clients or employees within x period.

(02-19-2018 07:21 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:13 PM)seniorowl Wrote:  That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

Yea, he wanted to transfer to a HBU. The premed stuff is a joke.

What is an HBU?

But regardless, JK should have let him transfer to Houston Baptist as the only HBU

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

(02-19-2018 07:43 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

No, he would have had to sit out either way. We approved his transfer to VCU. We only blocked him from C-USA schools and UH, I think.

(02-19-2018 07:43 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

We likely allowed his contact with VCU but did not grant a release... I think?

We could have blocked him from contacting VCU. Not sure why we did not.

(02-19-2018 07:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:43 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

We likely allowed his contact with VCU but did not grant a release... I think?

We could have blocked him from contacting VCU. Not sure why we did not.

Evans was not restricted from transferring to VCU in the release he received from Rice.

Even when you are granted a release, you must sit out a year (in basketball, football, baseball, and women’s basketball).

(02-19-2018 08:11 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:43 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

We likely allowed his contact with VCU but did not grant a release... I think?

We could have blocked him from contacting VCU. Not sure why we did not.

Evans was not restricted from transferring to VCU in the release he received from Rice.

Even when you are granted a release, you must sit out a year (in basketball, football, baseball, and women’s basketball).

Thanks.

And why we didn't block VCU.. beats me.

(02-19-2018 07:38 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:21 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:13 PM)seniorowl Wrote:  That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

Yea, he wanted to transfer to a HBU. The premed stuff is a joke.

What is an HBU?

But regardless, JK should have let him transfer to Houston Baptist as the only HBU

Historically Black University

(02-19-2018 08:45 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:38 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:21 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:13 PM)seniorowl Wrote:  That 'no pre-med program' crap is a total excuse. Went to a wedding this weekend, 5 of us in our group from Rice were doctors, 3 of those 5 were Rice athletes.

Yea, he wanted to transfer to a HBU. The premed stuff is a joke.

What is an HBU?

But regardless, JK should have let him transfer to Houston Baptist as the only HBU

Historically Black University

Thanks. I've always heard them referred to as HBCU and it didn't click in my head.

(02-19-2018 08:35 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:11 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:43 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The departures fall into different categories:

Grad Transfers (Hard to be mad but OK to be disappointed):

-Egor
-Marcus Jackson

Dumbasses who were going to fail out of Rice no matter who the coach was (Rhoades’ fault for chasing wins not building a program):

-MLE
-Douglas (Can’t really do anything about transfer to VCU since he’s doing a JuCo pit stop)

People who wanted to transfer because they were “too good” for Rice:

-Evans (why he was allowed to transfer to VCU, I have no idea. Totally on Karlgaard.)

Transferred because Rice does not have a pre-med program (while simultaneously having one of the highest med school acceptance rates in the country):

-Chad Lott

If Evans had to sit out for a year, doesn’t that mean we didn’t approve his transfer?

We likely allowed his contact with VCU but did not grant a release... I think?

We could have blocked him from contacting VCU. Not sure why we did not.

Evans was not restricted from transferring to VCU in the release he received from Rice.

Even when you are granted a release, you must sit out a year (in basketball, football, baseball, and women’s basketball).

Thanks.

And why we didn't block VCU.. beats me.

Put me in the block that says goodbye to anyone who wants to go. Put a restriction on someone we're going to compete against? I can see that. But VCU because his coach went there? Not a big deal, IMO.

And VCU may be starting to backslide already. This has not been a pretty season, and it hasn't exactly been dominating the last few, either.

The student-athletes already are on the wrong side of what are essentially annually-renewable contracts for their scholarships, where the institution can pull it if they don't have plans for you anymore (see most of the SEC football factories for this example) but schools can restrict the student's movement for any reason whatsoever (and have to sit out after transferring to a like institution). Sometimes trying to even restrict walk-ons not on scholarship (like Baker Mayfield).

So if there's a competitive issue, then set the restrictions. But this one doesn't hit my threshold.

(02-19-2018 09:36 PM)gsloth Wrote:  Put me in the block that says goodbye to anyone who wants to go. Put a restriction on someone we're going to compete against? I can see that. But VCU because his coach went there? Not a big deal, IMO.

And VCU may be starting to backslide already. This has not been a pretty season, and it hasn't exactly been dominating the last few, either.

The student-athletes already are on the wrong side of what are essentially annually-renewable contracts for their scholarships, where the institution can pull it if they don't have plans for you anymore (see most of the SEC football factories for this example) but schools can restrict the student's movement for any reason whatsoever (and have to sit out after transferring to a like institution). Sometimes trying to even restrict walk-ons not on scholarship (like Baker Mayfield).

So if there's a competitive issue, then set the restrictions. But this one doesn't hit my threshold.

Ordinarily I agree; VCU by itself isn't an issue. The problem is Rice should have been clear UP FRONT about any attempt to leave and take players will be met with a restriction.

Rhoades is an at-will employee, he can leave as he wishes, but he cannot raid the cupboard on the way out. IMO, that should have been stated clearly to Rhoades, every assistant and every player.

I just think Rice sets poor precedents. So far based on the Greenspan/Bailiff/Braun/Williams/Rhoades/pera situations the precedents set are
1. You won't be fired for sucking at your job
2. You won't be fired outright for being a racist, you will be allowed to resign
3. You can use Rice as your own stepping stone and raid the cupboard on the way out and no one will do anything
4. We have no succession planning in place.

IMO, Rice is stuck in the 50's where companies have loyalty and employees stay happily for 40 years. We have to change 1 thru 4. And yes, it may be a little cutthroat to say no, but Rice needs that - desperately. We need to signal we aren't a walkover anymore and yes, you can use us as a stepping stone but to the mutual benefit of both parties, not just one.

Say we hire the next Phil Jackson. He takes Rice to the dance and then bolts. The precedent we have set is that he can gut the program on the way out. How do we ever improve? We will be stuck in the cycle of terrible and mediocre-trending-good forever.

Why did we block Evans from CUSA and UH? Given that everyone left.. maybe if he went to another CUSA school we drop from 5 wins to 4. Is that a big deal? and UH (granted they sold their souls by hiring the MBB version of Greenspan - Kelvin Sampson) by virtue of this hire they are leagues above us. UH under Sampson would murder us without or without Evans. IMO. the one school we should have blocked him at was VCU. Just to say that no, we aren't naive anymore and no, we will no longer accept one-sided deals.

If you want to grow your career using Rice, then you grow Rice too.

The more interesting question is why do we seem to not have a succession plan and get caught with our pants down. I mean, JK isn't dumb. Tanner is extremely smart and capable. What is holding us back. Who is the triple parachute that refuses to let us move into the 21st century. Is it Leebron, it is the 25(0)? Is it is BOT?

Although considering our very own BOT member Jeff Smisek didn't get kicked off the Board despite being terminated by United for his dealings with the PANYNJ (not to mention the meticulous destruction of Continental), I do question what precedence we do set at a University and what exactly one must do to get actually Terminated by Rice.

Just to clear a couple things up:

-Corey would not have failed out of Rice and only went JuCo because he was a military school kid who was already old for his class. He also had absolutely no problems academically and was probably one of the smarter kids on the team
-Chad was also in good standing academically and transferred out because of personal stuff, which has already been addressed (also a victim of the ME + MLE dominoes falling). From what I heard, he had pretty set ambitions and goals and the move to Howard best facilitated them

(02-19-2018 10:18 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Just to clear a couple things up:

-Corey would not have failed out of Rice and only went JuCo because he was a military school kid who was already old for his class. He also had absolutely no problems academically and was probably one of the smarter kids on the team
-Chad was also in good standing academically and transferred out because of personal stuff, which has already been addressed (also a victim of the ME + MLE dominoes falling). From what I heard, he had pretty set ambitions and goals and the move to Howard best facilitated them

Gotcha. I know MLE has academic problems as reported by the Reno media. I just figured that Corey went to JuCo for similar reasons (as that is probably the case in 95% of BASKETBALL transfers down to JuCo).

If Chad wanted to go to a HBCU (which I’ve also heard), why didn’t he just come out and say it? The med school stuff was a crutch and seemingly an attempt to act as if Rice doesn’t allow its athletes to pursue tough academic programs (which couldn’t be further from the truth).