(02-17-2018 01:37 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:10 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:43 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  Without wading too far into this, I think one stop gap is forcing him to fire the assistants who are not (at least visibly) pulling their weight.

I think changing out Saul and Pooh for two better recruiters would make Tubby uncomfortable enough to start thinking buyout. It also might actually get us enough players that Tubby (who by all accounts actually is a decent bench / practice coach) could actually win enough to serve his three years in disappointing, but passing, fashion while still giving us enough oxygen to keep the program relevant enough that the next guy has a chance.

I'm still stuck on why Penny won't agree to be 1st assistant (if indeed he won't, the man himself hasn't publicly spoke). Penny on the bench to replace Pooh or Saul is a no brainer:

1. Better recruiting - helps us and Tubby
2. If we start winning, tubby retires happy and our next coach is (hey!) Penny.
3. If we start losing, Tubby is fired, we need a guy with experience with the program (hey!), Penny.

I am probably missing something, but if Penny wants the HC job, the simplest way might be to replace Saul.

And yes, I am almost certainly missing something.

A few posters here have intimated that Esposito is leaving on his own no matter what. At that point, all you have to do is force Tubby to fire Saul. If you do that, NOBODY in the national media, any media or with any common sense is going to blame us; they know that Saul is ******* useless.

Esposito leaves, Saul is fired and Tubby is left with Pooh and has to convince two assistants to take on a job where Tubby himself probably won't last more than a year. Firing Saul will do the trick.

And Tubby has staff control, since some can't seem to remember he moved Keelon off the staff. FACT. Over Bowen's objection who verbally promised Keelon a bench asst position. Think that through and you ain't doing jack with Tubby's permission.

You for real seriously think that the school has the power to fire Tubby but they don't have the power to fire an assistant? They can fire anyone for any reason they want. Where do people come up with this stuff?

At Tubby's level, I would be shocked if he doesn't have contractual authority over his staff. My guess is that, lacking "cause," the school can't fire the staff, it's likely that the best they can threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn't make staff changes.

That's my understanding of the situation, also.

(02-17-2018 01:41 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:37 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:10 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  A few posters here have intimated that Esposito is leaving on his own no matter what. At that point, all you have to do is force Tubby to fire Saul. If you do that, NOBODY in the national media, any media or with any common sense is going to blame us; they know that Saul is ******* useless.

Esposito leaves, Saul is fired and Tubby is left with Pooh and has to convince two assistants to take on a job where Tubby himself probably won't last more than a year. Firing Saul will do the trick.

And Tubby has staff control, since some can't seem to remember he moved Keelon off the staff. FACT. Over Bowen's objection who verbally promised Keelon a bench asst position. Think that through and you ain't doing jack with Tubby's permission.

You for real seriously think that the school has the power to fire Tubby but they don't have the power to fire an assistant? They can fire anyone for any reason they want. Where do people come up with this stuff?

At Tubby's level, I would be shocked if he doesn't have contractual authority over his staff. My guess is that, lacking "cause," the school can't fire the staff, it's likely that the best they can threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn't make staff changes.

That's my understanding of the situation, also.

That’s a contradiction. If they can’t mess with Tubby’s staff , how can they threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn’t fire them? Well they CAN issue empty threats and Tubby would laugh at them. I don’t think a lot of posters realize the import of Tubby basically telling Bowen to go screw himself by getting rid of Keelon after Bowen’s poromise to Keelon. Don’t let Tubby’s demeanor fool you. He can be a hard nose S*B.

(02-17-2018 12:26 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

You guys talk about "sunk cost" like it's not real money. It is very real. Someone has to actually write a check and give to Tubby and probably assistants for severance. It is just money that you are obligated to pay; in other words: DEBT.

You are right, cost has to paid with real money.

“Sunk Cost” is a concept that acknowledges that it is good policy to exclude unrecoverable past investments (eg, Tubby’s contract unless negotiated down) “when deciding whether to continue with further investments.”

https://www.accountingtools.com/articles...-cost.html

The idea is we should exclude Tubby’s contract cost (once determined it cannot be lowered) when considering alternatives to Tubby.

(02-17-2018 12:26 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

You guys talk about "sunk cost" like it's not real money. It is very real. Someone has to actually write a check and give to Tubby and probably assistants for severance. It is just money that you are obligated to pay; in other words: DEBT.

And they have to do it whether we fire Tubby or don't. And they know they do.

And surely they know we suck right now. Maybe find other boosters to pay the new coaches salary? I can't pay 100,000, but maybe I'd be willing to chip in 1-10k if I was approached the right way.

(02-17-2018 01:28 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:58 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:53 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:47 PM)Tigx Wrote:  No, stupid. Nobody pm'd him, he's making it up.

blah blah blah

Stammers, the few times I read your drivel it's like Charlie Brown's teacher. mwah mwah mwah.

Notice how you didn't deny you made up the pm BS. Joshie down 14 at half at home, too bad.

Joshie will have a losing season.

Joshie now down 32 at home to Virginia Tech. Memories - no discernible offense being run, no strategy adjustments at halftime. All that's left is to hear him say players have to make shots in the postgame presser.

Don't worry, Stams. They will score some meaningless points down the stretch to make is look better.

you're not a positive paul

(02-17-2018 02:07 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:41 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:37 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:10 PM)Shooters Wrote:  And Tubby has staff control, since some can't seem to remember he moved Keelon off the staff. FACT. Over Bowen's objection who verbally promised Keelon a bench asst position. Think that through and you ain't doing jack with Tubby's permission.

You for real seriously think that the school has the power to fire Tubby but they don't have the power to fire an assistant? They can fire anyone for any reason they want. Where do people come up with this stuff?

At Tubby's level, I would be shocked if he doesn't have contractual authority over his staff. My guess is that, lacking "cause," the school can't fire the staff, it's likely that the best they can threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn't make staff changes.

That's my understanding of the situation, also.

That’s a contradiction. If they can’t mess with Tubby’s staff , how can they threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn’t fire them? Well they CAN issue empty threats and Tubby would laugh at them. I don’t think a lot of posters realize the import of Tubby basically telling Bowen to go screw himself by getting rid of Keelon after Bowen’s poromise to Keelon. Don’t let Tubby’s demeanor fool you. He can be a hard nose S*B.

I don't think Memphis fans are fooled at this point.

I never saw where our Admin threatened to fire him if he didn't fire his staff.

Most future HOF coaches won't enter into a situation without full control of assistants. I've been told he has full control of his assistants.

I'm not sure how Texas Tech avoided that, but maybe Tubby was more willing to negotiate that point because his son had been picked up for DUI.

(02-17-2018 02:07 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:41 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:37 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:10 PM)Shooters Wrote:  And Tubby has staff control, since some can't seem to remember he moved Keelon off the staff. FACT. Over Bowen's objection who verbally promised Keelon a bench asst position. Think that through and you ain't doing jack with Tubby's permission.

You for real seriously think that the school has the power to fire Tubby but they don't have the power to fire an assistant? They can fire anyone for any reason they want. Where do people come up with this stuff?

At Tubby's level, I would be shocked if he doesn't have contractual authority over his staff. My guess is that, lacking "cause," the school can't fire the staff, it's likely that the best they can threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn't make staff changes.

That's my understanding of the situation, also.

That’s a contradiction. If they can’t mess with Tubby’s staff , how can they threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn’t fire them? Well they CAN issue empty threats and Tubby would laugh at them. I don’t think a lot of posters realize the import of Tubby basically telling Bowen to go screw himself by getting rid of Keelon after Bowen’s poromise to Keelon. Don’t let Tubby’s demeanor fool you. He can be a hard nose S*B.

That's not a contradiction. The can fire Tubby without cause, but they would owe him the balance of his contract. They could threaten to fire Tubby if he doesn't make staff changes, but Tubby's made it clear that he's going to do things his way so the threat carries no weight. You either fire Tubby and start over, or he's going to continue with whatever staff he wants. It's either/or.

But the idea that you can get out from under his albatross contract by unilaterally changing out his staff against his wishes to make him uncomfortable and ultimately quit is not an option.

(02-17-2018 12:53 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:47 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:44 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:30 PM)Stammers Wrote:  A few posters pm'd me telling me that 3 of them are friends, which I guess explains it.

Interesting

No, stupid. Nobody pm'd him, he's making it up.

blah blah blah

Stammers, the few times I read your drivel it's like Charlie Brown's teacher. mwah mwah mwah.

Notice how you didn't deny you made up the pm BS. Joshie down 14 at half at home, too bad.

I said it, it's true. Waiting on sheeple's 2 and 3 to weigh in. Keep up the good work with the GT game updates and having me on ignore. Clearly, ignore is a perfect example of every bit of nonsense that comes out of you...the exact opposite of reality.

(02-17-2018 06:53 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  If you are of the opinion that discussion of ways to terminate Tubby's service is premature, then this thread is not for you and you are advised to ignore it. The thread's intent is generation of mature and rational discussion on the best method of dumping Tubby and not on the advisably of firing him. In other words, for the sake of this discussion, we will assume that the decision to fire Tubby has already taken place.

My Steps on Getting Rid of Tubby:

1. Investigate replacement coaches with reasonable assurance of achieving success and gauge their willingness to take our job. I would include Penny, assuming he is truly interested. I believe there are better options than Tubby, but if not there is no point in firing Tubby.

2. Do everything legally allowed to make Tubby uncomfortable so he will quit. The first step is firing his son. If not possible or fail, go to step 3.

3. Negotiate a settlement with Tubby. If fail, go to step 4.

4. Fire him after this season and pay him off over six years (assuming it is allowed).

5. Hire replacement coach within the budget already earmarked for Tubby when paid off over six years or hire replacement coach at market rate (means our boosters will dig deeper in their pockets).

Your steps/options?

Still say find a coed who is willing to have an affair with Orlando.


Other than that forcing him to fire Saul would be the next best move.

(02-17-2018 12:58 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:53 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:47 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:44 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  Interesting

No, stupid. Nobody pm'd him, he's making it up.

blah blah blah

Stammers, the few times I read your drivel it's like Charlie Brown's teacher. mwah mwah mwah.

Notice how you didn't deny you made up the pm BS. Joshie down 14 at half at home, too bad.

Joshie will have a losing season.

Orlando would also playing that schedule. When you go with a freshman point guard in the top Basketball conference in the US then you will have less than stellar results. Top 2 players are either Fresh or Soph. At least they do have a decent recruiting class to look forward to next year. With (3) four star players signed. What do we have, a single recruit rated in the 300s.

(02-17-2018 05:20 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:58 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:53 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:47 PM)Tigx Wrote:  No, stupid. Nobody pm'd him, he's making it up.

blah blah blah

Stammers, the few times I read your drivel it's like Charlie Brown's teacher. mwah mwah mwah.

Notice how you didn't deny you made up the pm BS. Joshie down 14 at half at home, too bad.

Joshie will have a losing season.

Orlando would also playing that schedule. When you go with a freshman point guard in the top Basketball conference in the US then you will have less than stellar results. Top 2 players are either Fresh or Soph. At least they do have a decent recruiting class to look forward to next year. With (3) four star players signed. What do we have, a single recruit rated in the 300s.

Will you ever learn? Joshie could have Duke's incoming class next year and still suck. (Btw, just looked, Rivals says 1 4 star) Okogie and Lammers will probably be drafted, and he was down 37 points at home today to Va Tech, and has lost 9 of the last 10.

Poor Georgia Tech extended him until 2023. Look at the bright side, Ga Tech has winless Pittsburgh in its conference, so at least they won't finish last.

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

Pay it off in a lumpsum or over six years, you still need to come up with the money so you can also pay another coach.

(02-17-2018 05:20 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:58 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:53 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:47 PM)Tigx Wrote:  No, stupid. Nobody pm'd him, he's making it up.

blah blah blah

Stammers, the few times I read your drivel it's like Charlie Brown's teacher. mwah mwah mwah.

Notice how you didn't deny you made up the pm BS. Joshie down 14 at half at home, too bad.

Joshie will have a losing season.

Orlando would also playing that schedule. When you go with a freshman point guard in the top Basketball conference in the US then you will have less than stellar results. Top 2 players are either Fresh or Soph. At least they do have a decent recruiting class to look forward to next year. With (3) four star players signed. What do we have, a single recruit rated in the 300s.

You always defend your all time favorite coach. His record sucks and will only get worse. He could lose 7 in a row. Stop defending the guy.

Ehh...shrug... We all need our heroes.

Still number 4

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-17-2018 02:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 12:26 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

You guys talk about "sunk cost" like it's not real money. It is very real. Someone has to actually write a check and give to Tubby and probably assistants for severance. It is just money that you are obligated to pay; in other words: DEBT.

You are right, cost has to paid with real money.

“Sunk Cost” is a concept that acknowledges that it is good policy to exclude unrecoverable past investments (eg, Tubby’s contract unless negotiated down) “when deciding whether to continue with further investments.”

https://www.accountingtools.com/articles...-cost.html

The idea is we should exclude Tubby’s contract cost (once determined it cannot be lowered) when considering alternatives to Tubby.

If one of the alternatives is keeping him it is not a sunk cost.

(02-17-2018 05:30 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

Pay it off in a lumpsum or over six years, you still need to come up with the money so you can also pay another coach.

We are playing 2 coaches right now...

Fire Tubby and we will be paying 3 coaches next year...

Even if you extend it over 6 years you are still paying 2.5 million to coaches who aren't here next year.

And if the next coach doesn't work out and your still paying Tubby you will still be paying 3 coaches.

It is kind of like trading in cars where you are upside down...You end up paying $700 a month for hyundai if you do it too often.

(02-17-2018 05:30 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

Pay it off in a lumpsum or over six years, you still need to come up with the money so you can also pay another coach.

We are playing 2 coaches right now...

Fire Tubby and we will be paying 3 coaches next year...

Even if you extend it over 6 years you are still paying 2.5 million to coaches who aren't here next year.

And if the next coach doesn't work out and your still paying Tubby you will still be paying 3 coaches.

It is kind of like trading in cars where you are upside down...You end up paying $700 a month for hyundai if you do it too often.

(02-17-2018 05:59 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 05:30 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 08:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  One step:

Come up with $10 million.

I assumed that Tubby's salary is a sunk cost that can be paid out over six years and thus allow part one of step 5. If my assumption is wrong, then it certainly limits our options.

Pay it off in a lumpsum or over six years, you still need to come up with the money so you can also pay another coach.

We are playing 2 coaches right now...

Name the two coaches that we are paying.