Im give Clark pass because I believe he's clearly hurt right now. Is it time to shut him down until tournamnet time? He's been our weakest link in past 4-5 games

(02-19-2018 11:16 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Im give Clark pass because I believe he's clearly hurt right now. Is it time to shut him down until tournamnet time? He's been our weakest link in past 4-5 games

He hasn't been the same since he got punched in the mouth against UConn, knocking his tooth threw his lip (his tooth got knocked out against them last year too).

I think he is hurt or tired or both...Definitely doesn't have that spring in his step

Do we shut him down until tournament start? I want to try 4 guard lineups anyway

Why was KW limited to 17 minutes. He start strong offensively. Was it his lack of D? If so did his replacement do better?

(02-19-2018 01:33 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Why was KW limited to 17 minutes. He start strong offensively. Was it his lack of D? If so did his replacement do better?

He was getting destroyed on D all game. We were running a switching man-to-man and when KW got switched onto the perimeter they'd ISO him and it was game over. He also got beat on the post quite a few times. Offensively he scored a couple buckets early but then Cronin sat him over D and he never got going again.

Nsoseme played the best D of our C's. Excellent D on ISO's on the perimeter, but is still a freshman when he comes to team D (gets lost, makes mistakes), still played better D then Washington - also got fouled a couple times fighting for the offensive rebound, which got us the ball. Brooks only really played in the first half and got into foul trouble, played better D than Washington but wasn't great. Overall our C's were lacking, but Nsoseme was the best of the bad - he is a beast in the making, but needs a lot more experience.

Disappointing, but I felt it was two good teams going at it. Never felt we were out of the game. Biggest disappointment was when a state player hit the floor and didn’t immediately get up. After he got over the daze he sucked it up and ran off to our student section booing him getting up quickly, all the while they had to come out and scrub blood off the floor afterwards. Just poor sportsmanship, I was embarrassed by our students

(02-19-2018 02:42 PM)Fubar Wrote:  Disappointing, but I felt it was two good teams going at it. Never felt we were out of the game. Biggest disappointment was when a state player hit the floor and didn’t immediately get up. After he got over the daze he sucked it up and ran off to our student section booing him getting up quickly, all the while they had to come out and scrub blood off the floor afterwards. Just poor sportsmanship, I was embarrassed by our students

Watching on TV I thought they were booing that the refs went to the monitor to review the play (he got elbowed in face by teammate).

(02-19-2018 02:42 PM)Fubar Wrote:  Disappointing, but I felt it was two good teams going at it. Never felt we were out of the game. Biggest disappointment was when a state player hit the floor and didn’t immediately get up. After he got over the daze he sucked it up and ran off to our student section booing him getting up quickly, all the while they had to come out and scrub blood off the floor afterwards. Just poor sportsmanship, I was embarrassed by our students

They weren't booing the player. Booing the refs

(02-19-2018 02:47 PM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:42 PM)Fubar Wrote:  Disappointing, but I felt it was two good teams going at it. Never felt we were out of the game. Biggest disappointment was when a state player hit the floor and didn’t immediately get up. After he got over the daze he sucked it up and ran off to our student section booing him getting up quickly, all the while they had to come out and scrub blood off the floor afterwards. Just poor sportsmanship, I was embarrassed by our students

Watching on TV I thought they were booing that the refs went to the monitor to review the play (he got elbowed in face by teammate).

This was my feeling at the game as well. Booing the officials, they weren't booing the player.

When I got up this morning, after watching the game on TV, I was thinking I knew what our shortfalls were. Then I looked at the stats and realized I knew less than I thought. (I never thought it was the refs, and still don't.)

I thought remembered bunches of UC turnovers on failed drives to the basket. So turnovers killed us. Then I looked at the the stats, and we had two less turnovers than WSU. That wasn't it.

I remember the commentator saying those missed free throws were like a silent turnover. So free throws killed us. Then I looked at the stats and we were 15 of 21, WSU was 14 of 20. Okay that wasn't it.

I remembered the commentator praising the way WSU crashed the offensive boards. But the stats showed UC with 10 offensive boards to 9 for WSU. (Defensive rebounds were even). So that wasn't it.

When I looked at the 3 point shot stats, however the difference showed up. WSU only made one more 3 pointer than UC did, but they did it on fewer shots. UC 7 of 23 (30%) WSU 8 of 18 (44%).
2 point shots was UC 18 of 29 (62%) , WSU 19 of 33 (57%).
UC had more total shots, but WSU had 2 more field goals.

So basically, WSU simply shot better than we did, especially from the 3 point line. If we hit even one more of those, the finish is to a different game. Both teams had open shots, plus a few that were more tightly challenged.

I think it points out where we need to improve to advance in March, both on offense and defense.

(02-19-2018 06:03 PM)ucbandguy Wrote:  When I got up this morning, after watching the game on TV, I was thinking I knew what our shortfalls were. Then I looked at the stats and realized I knew less than I thought. (I never thought it was the refs, and still don't.)

I thought remembered bunches of UC turnovers on failed drives to the basket. So turnovers killed us. Then I looked at the the stats, and we had two less turnovers than WSU. That wasn't it.

I remember the commentator saying those missed free throws were like a silent turnover. So free throws killed us. Then I looked at the stats and we were 15 of 21, WSU was 14 of 20. Okay that wasn't it.

I remembered the commentator praising the way WSU crashed the offensive boards. But the stats showed UC with 10 offensive boards to 9 for WSU. (Defensive rebounds were even). So that wasn't it.

When I looked at the 3 point shot stats, however the difference showed up. WSU only made one more 3 pointer than UC did, but they did it on fewer shots. UC 7 of 23 (30%) WSU 8 of 18 (44%).
2 point shots was UC 18 of 29 (62%) , WSU 19 of 33 (57%).
UC had more total shots, but WSU had 2 more field goals.

So basically, WSU simply shot better than we did, especially from the 3 point line. If we hit even one more of those, the finish is to a different game. Both teams had open shots, plus a few that were more tightly challenged.

I think it points out where we need to improve to advance in March, both on offense and defense.

They did. And UC missed some easy ones early on. Also I thought our TOs were unforced. Broome saved are a s s in the 2nd half. He was 8/13, 2/3 on 3s.
I might double Shaq Morris in the next game.

(02-19-2018 06:03 PM)ucbandguy Wrote:  When I got up this morning, after watching the game on TV, I was thinking I knew what our shortfalls were. Then I looked at the stats and realized I knew less than I thought. (I never thought it was the refs, and still don't.)

I thought remembered bunches of UC turnovers on failed drives to the basket. So turnovers killed us. Then I looked at the the stats, and we had two less turnovers than WSU. That wasn't it.

I remember the commentator saying those missed free throws were like a silent turnover. So free throws killed us. Then I looked at the stats and we were 15 of 21, WSU was 14 of 20. Okay that wasn't it.

I remembered the commentator praising the way WSU crashed the offensive boards. But the stats showed UC with 10 offensive boards to 9 for WSU. (Defensive rebounds were even). So that wasn't it.

When I looked at the 3 point shot stats, however the difference showed up. WSU only made one more 3 pointer than UC did, but they did it on fewer shots. UC 7 of 23 (30%) WSU 8 of 18 (44%).
2 point shots was UC 18 of 29 (62%) , WSU 19 of 33 (57%).
UC had more total shots, but WSU had 2 more field goals.

So basically, WSU simply shot better than we did, especially from the 3 point line. If we hit even one more of those, the finish is to a different game. Both teams had open shots, plus a few that were more tightly challenged.

I think it points out where we need to improve to advance in March, both on offense and defense.

I agree, but we simply don't have the shooters that WSU does. We have only three guards who shoot over 35% from 3 (Broome, Evans, Jenifer), Cumberland is a bulk 3 point shooter, but not a good one. If everything else is equal (like it pretty much was vs WSU) we are going to lose the shooting battle more often than not, most good teams have more good shooters than we do. That means we have to be them somewhere else. Looking at our 2 point field goal percentage, a simple fix would have been fewer threes and more 2's.

(02-19-2018 09:27 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:57 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:43 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

Technically, we won the rebounding battle (27-26 I think). Unless you are referring to the Houston game (where we did get dominated on the boards). Wichita State is very good at rebounding as well.

Offense is not just coaching, it's the players. WSU has a bunch of guys you can't let have any space from 3 (Shamet, Reaves, Brown, Frankamp, McDuffie) which forces defenders to the perimeter and opens up the interior. When the D switched they found the mismatch, if the D collapsed they found the open man.

We have better athletes, but not better shooters. Shooters create spacing by making the D come out and guard them. Cumberland is 33% from 3 for the year, that doesn't strike fear in any team. Jenifer doesn't shoot it from 3 unless he has no defender within 15 feet. Williams and Moore aren't major threats from 3 either (13.6% and 34.5% respectively). Our only high % 3 point shooters are Evans, Broome, Clark and Washington and Clark/Washington aren't generally on the perimeter. That's part of why our offense runs better with Broome in, he is one of two legitimate outside threats we have from a guard.

Teams like Wichita State, Xavier, and to a lesser extent Temple continue to exploit UC's switching defense by finding the mismatch and making the Cats pay. Not every team has the players to do that so I wouldn't be too concerned unless UC gets that type of matchup in the tournament.

Yeah, there aren't that many teams with the players to exploit mismatches and the offensive IQ to find them. It would be nice if Cronin had a backup plan ready for when that does happen though. Change the defense, or don't switch with Washington or something. Right now his backup plan is to take Washington out of the game, which isn't good for our offense.

A big part of the problem has been that Nysier Brooks has given us nothing as a backup this conference season. He is a foul-prone turnover machine who has not improved much, if at all, from last year, when he was a younger foul-prone turnover machine.

(02-19-2018 09:40 AM)dsquare Wrote:  I guess my take on the game after sleeping on it,

-WS legit team. I was impressed by how physical they were. I knew they were good, but much bigger and physical than i expected. Definitely deeper than Uc in the shooting dept.
-We had success coming back when we spread the floor aka Nova and let Broome beat guys off the dribble. Why that was pretty much abandoned once we got within a possession was kind of mind boggling. We seemed to resort right back to what was not working which was Cumberland and Evans dribbling into the defense.
-Again Evans, make your ft's down the stretch.Just a momentum killer the past two games.
-Clark was marginalized by their bigger guys. He's been very good, but he wasn't at his best yesterday.
-Unless they invest time in getting Broome minutes and shots, i do not think the results will be much different from recent history down the stretch. Evans and Cumberland stand their best chance of hitting open shots when they are kicked back to instead of trying to dribble their way into position to shoot. To much forcing in this offense. Frustrating given Broome has the quickness to create.

Some good points made above. Cronin has a tendency in important games when UC gets the lead or is within one or two points to slow the game down and go to the same old stagnant offense where we hold the ball for 26-27 seconds and then someone, usually Evans, is forced to create an off-balance shot 15 or more feet from the basket. How many times vs. Wichita did we see one Bearcat after another try to pass the ball to a teammate with only 2-3 seconds left on the shot clock? Of course, it's not just this year; this is the modus operendi we've employed for mick's entire tenure.

(02-19-2018 09:33 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:40 AM)dsquare Wrote:  I guess my take on the game after sleeping on it,

-WS legit team. I was impressed by how physical they were. I knew they were good, but much bigger and physical than i expected. Definitely deeper than Uc in the shooting dept.
-We had success coming back when we spread the floor aka Nova and let Broome beat guys off the dribble. Why that was pretty much abandoned once we got within a possession was kind of mind boggling. We seemed to resort right back to what was not working which was Cumberland and Evans dribbling into the defense.
-Again Evans, make your ft's down the stretch.Just a momentum killer the past two games.
-Clark was marginalized by their bigger guys. He's been very good, but he wasn't at his best yesterday.
-Unless they invest time in getting Broome minutes and shots, i do not think the results will be much different from recent history down the stretch. Evans and Cumberland stand their best chance of hitting open shots when they are kicked back to instead of trying to dribble their way into position to shoot. To much forcing in this offense. Frustrating given Broome has the quickness to create.

Some good points made above. Cronin has a tendency in important games when UC gets the lead or is within one or two points to slow the game down and go to the same old stagnant offense where we hold the ball for 26-27 seconds and then someone, usually Evans, is forced to create an off-balance shot 15 or more feet from the basket. How many times vs. Wichita did we see one Bearcat after another try to pass the ball to a teammate with only 2-3 seconds left on the shot clock? Of course, it's not just this year; this is the modus operendi we've employed for mick's entire tenure.

This drives me nuts! If they've been having success offensively why does he change it and start the slowdown game — passing the ball around the perimeter or dribbling it around shooting in the last 5 secs and ending up jacking up a horrid shot? Sometimes the ball handler is even looking up at the shot clock so I know it is on purpose.

UC did this for the pas few years and I thought it was because Mick preferred Caupain in a slowed down offense but this year makes zero sense.

Why change what is working?

Honestly, i do not think it's an effort to slow it down. I think what you see is these guys actually do have a great deal of cohesiveness on and off the court, and the tendency is to play unselfish ball. Evans is a prime example of it, and i think Broome is also in this mindset. Clark has always been that way, but has shown signs of shaking it. It was almost like Broome put on his spurt, and now it was Evans or Cumberland's turn. However, broome clearly had the edge on them quickness wise. Sometimes you have to ride the hot hand. I'm sure the Wst. coach was beside himself when Evans and Cumberland resumed their bullrush to the hoop after Broome put on his run. Frustrating.

(02-19-2018 10:27 PM)dsquare Wrote:  Honestly, i do not think it's an effort to slow it down. I think what you see is these guys actually do have a great deal of cohesiveness on and off the court, and the tendency is to play unselfish ball. Evans is a prime example of it, and i think Broome is also in this mindset. Clark has always been that way, but has shown signs of shaking it. It was almost like Broome put on his spurt, and now it was Evans or Cumberland's turn. However, broome clearly had the edge on them quickness wise. Sometimes you have to ride the hot hand. I'm sure the Wst. coach was beside himself when Evans and Cumberland resumed their bullrush to the hoop after Broome put on his run. Frustrating.

When your coach has your point guard stand at the top of the key and stare at him waiting for a play call, it's an effort to slow it down. Now to Mick's credit, he isn't doing that nearly as much as he did with Caupain (which was downright criminal), but he still does it an inane amount of possessions.

(02-19-2018 06:03 PM)ucbandguy Wrote:  When I got up this morning, after watching the game on TV, I was thinking I knew what our shortfalls were. Then I looked at the stats and realized I knew less than I thought. (I never thought it was the refs, and still don't.)

I thought remembered bunches of UC turnovers on failed drives to the basket. So turnovers killed us. Then I looked at the the stats, and we had two less turnovers than WSU. That wasn't it.

I remember the commentator saying those missed free throws were like a silent turnover. So free throws killed us. Then I looked at the stats and we were 15 of 21, WSU was 14 of 20. Okay that wasn't it.

I remembered the commentator praising the way WSU crashed the offensive boards. But the stats showed UC with 10 offensive boards to 9 for WSU. (Defensive rebounds were even). So that wasn't it.

When I looked at the 3 point shot stats, however the difference showed up. WSU only made one more 3 pointer than UC did, but they did it on fewer shots. UC 7 of 23 (30%) WSU 8 of 18 (44%).
2 point shots was UC 18 of 29 (62%) , WSU 19 of 33 (57%).
UC had more total shots, but WSU had 2 more field goals.

So basically, WSU simply shot better than we did, especially from the 3 point line. If we hit even one more of those, the finish is to a different game. Both teams had open shots, plus a few that were more tightly challenged.

I think it points out where we need to improve to advance in March, both on offense and defense.

If we could improve 2-3 % from behind the arc we'd be almost impossible to beat. JC isn't nearly as good as he should be when he's wide open, Jake has to create his own shot far too much, Trev has only made 1 big three all season (the one at "Memphis" when they we're showing a pulse).

I honestly think part of the poor shooting is the decision to just ignore offense. We hardly run sets for shooters and solely rely on unselfish ball. Make the right pass, and take the best shot, no matter what guy has the ball. Screw that, how about you try and dictate the defense and get the exact shot you want for the shooter you want? We run exactly 1 set for our shooters and we barely run it. So little action below the top of the key if we aren't getting post touches.

(02-20-2018 09:50 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  I honestly think part of the poor shooting is the decision to just ignore offense. We hardly run sets for shooters and solely rely on unselfish ball. Make the right pass, and take the best shot, no matter what guy has the ball. Screw that, how about you try and dictate the defense and get the exact shot you want for the shooter you want? We run exactly 1 set for our shooters and we barely run it. So little action below the top of the key if we aren't getting post touches.

i dont think mick thinks we have the players to run offense like that. this is a direct quote from last nights coaches show

"we don't have the shooting, we're not an elite shooting team. we don't have the players that can run 37 set plays in a game. thats not who we are, we would be a bad team if we tried to play that way."