A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

But where does the budget show increases? In two ways in particular - defense spending (14 percent) and homeland security (12 percent). Now I'm not saying I think this budget proposal will pass Congress or is justified, but here is what I am saying.

Defense and Homeland Security should include the safety of our schools. Maybe it's time to think about putting a military member in large high schools and middle schools across the country. We probably can't afford to add another police member in the schools but I'd rather put military in schools then ship them overseas. It's a sad statement on society but I think it's time we try something to stem the epidemic of violence. In our local high school, the 2 full-time cops on duty are mostly used for traffic control and isolated safety incidents, but they can use more help in both areas. Perhaps you have this military person work with the schools' ROTC programs during the day in some fashion to justify their presence as well.

In terms of Homeland Security, I think the FBI and other departments need to be more proactive in protecting potential threats to the schools. The perpetrator in Florida was expelled from that high school a year ago, and was a known threat to the school. Maybe the FBI had visited him, but if not, why not? Any threats posted online on social media should be taken seriously by these departments. Again I'd rather these organizations concentrating on domestic threats just as much as foreign ones.

I don't believe arming the teachers is the answer. Their job is to teach, not police our youth.

Maybe you disagree with my suggestions but at least I'm suggesting potential ways of making the schools safer. I have 2 high schoolers, and 3 siblings who are teachers so incidents like the one in Florida really hit home with me. Today is going to be a somber day in our nation's schools.

Hunters have had to limit the number of shots a gun can fire. Ive got a plug in an old shot gun limiting the number of rounds. Limits on firing. Maybe?
Maybe set up a system like a wellness check if some is posting crazy homicidal stuff on the internet.

I honestly dont know.

Nothing you can do. Lock down the schools and they'll go to a mall, movie theatre, arena, faire, parade, marathon, hospital, workplace, concert or anywhere else that has a lot of people. We cannot have as police state.

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(02-15-2018 06:13 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Nothing you can do. Lock down the schools and they'll go to a mall, movie theatre, arena, faire, parade, marathon, hospital, workplace, concert or anywhere else that has a lot of people. We cannot have as police state.

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XACLY! ...it simply becomes pick your poison if you're one of the violent crazies....

there is no cure-all solution other than eradicating the internet.....

there is ALWAYS a price you pay for unleashing tech to the incompetent masses....

I'll also add this.....there's something to wealth division, population increase among the welfare state, and illegal immigration that all contribute to the increase in violence....

I've said it too many times....back the woofy woof in the corner, the fangs are going to come at ya one day....

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

Hope you got some sleep in the end. Seems like a great way to spin the wheels in your head all night......

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

Can you show any correlation between lower budgets and less safe schools?

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  But where does the budget show increases? In two ways in particular - defense spending (14 percent) and homeland security (12 percent). Now I'm not saying I think this budget proposal will pass Congress or is justified, but here is what I am saying.

While I am not sure I agree with the amount of increase, the Constitution does require that our borders are secure. It doesn't mention education.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Defense and Homeland Security should include the safety of our schools. Maybe it's time to think about putting a military member in large high schools and middle schools across the country.

No. God no. Never. You do not any way shape of form to place military members in civilian law enforcement responsibilities.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  In terms of Homeland Security, I think the FBI and other departments need to be more proactive in protecting potential threats to the schools.

The government already cannot be trusted to respect the civil rights of Americans. We should not look to give them more powers. They are not good at what they do, and their decisions are enforced through the threat of violence. Sadly, current law enforcement attitudes means some cops often treat ordinary decent citizens as if they were pants-down trash-talking troublemakers. Is this how you want a pimply 13 year old to answer for angry tweet or Snapchat?

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't believe arming the teachers is the answer. Their job is to teach, not police our youth.

When seconds count in active shooter situations, the police are minutes away.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Maybe you disagree with my suggestions but at least I'm suggesting potential ways of making the schools safer. I have 2 high schoolers, and 3 siblings who are teachers so incidents like the one in Florida really hit home with me. Today is going to be a somber day in our nation's schools.

This nation long ago reconciled the Second Amendment with firearm deaths. The only solution to stopping firearm deaths is to repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all firearms. This is the only solution.

Are you willing to support that?

It's going to be hard. You're not going to be able to have armed guards at most schools because parents aren't going to have it. You're not going to have armed teachers, because they wouldn't want to do it.

I’ve said this before. After whatever the last tragedy was. Too many to remember now.

We have an armed “resource officer” in every one of our schools from k through 12.

They do some “Community teaching” and roam halls etc.

They’re regular beat cops that spend a day or two of their weekly rotation in an office inside the school. The schools themselves are typically clustered close together, so an “active shooter” situation like this would have 2-4 armed cops on site almost instantly.

Probably 95.7% of these officers time is spent patting heads and maybe helping with bus duty, but just the presence would help. Like having the local officer park his/her car out front of the house quells speeding on a neighborhood street.

They get paid their same rate, maybe a bit of a bump, but are just spending their paperwork time/days at a school instead of in an isolated office at HQ.

Essentially free, trained security. A deterrent at worst, lifesaver at best.


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(02-15-2018 05:55 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Hunters have had to limit the number of shots a gun can fire. Ive got a plug in an old shot gun limiting the number of rounds. Limits on firing. Maybe?
Maybe set up a system like a wellness check if some is posting crazy homicidal stuff on the internet.

I honestly dont know.

So if we limit magazine size to 10 instead of the standard 30 or extended 40 round mags, not to mention 100 round drums etc. the shooter, in this case, reloads only 1-2 times depending on his accuracy. I can reload an AR with any magazine in about 5, maybe 10, seconds.

At this point I understand we have to do something but I'm not sure what that something should be. I lean more toward deeper study and understanding of the pathology of these insane wack jobs and finding alternative treatments to the psychotropic drugs now being administered to kids for BS conditions you and I never knew about when we were kids.

(02-15-2018 08:12 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

Hope you got some sleep in the end. Seems like a great way to spin the wheels in your head all night......

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

Can you show any correlation between lower budgets and less safe schools?

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  But where does the budget show increases? In two ways in particular - defense spending (14 percent) and homeland security (12 percent). Now I'm not saying I think this budget proposal will pass Congress or is justified, but here is what I am saying.

While I am not sure I agree with the amount of increase, the Constitution does require that our borders are secure. It doesn't mention education.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Defense and Homeland Security should include the safety of our schools. Maybe it's time to think about putting a military member in large high schools and middle schools across the country.

No. God no. Never. You do not any way shape of form to place military members in civilian law enforcement responsibilities.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  In terms of Homeland Security, I think the FBI and other departments need to be more proactive in protecting potential threats to the schools.

The government already cannot be trusted to respect the civil rights of Americans. We should not look to give them more powers. They are not good at what they do, and their decisions are enforced through the threat of violence. Sadly, current law enforcement attitudes means some cops often treat ordinary decent citizens as if they were pants-down trash-talking troublemakers. Is this how you want a pimply 13 year old to answer for angry tweet or Snapchat?

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't believe arming the teachers is the answer. Their job is to teach, not police our youth.

When seconds count in active shooter situations, the police are minutes away.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Maybe you disagree with my suggestions but at least I'm suggesting potential ways of making the schools safer. I have 2 high schoolers, and 3 siblings who are teachers so incidents like the one in Florida really hit home with me. Today is going to be a somber day in our nation's schools.

This nation long ago reconciled the Second Amendment with firearm deaths. The only solution to stopping firearm deaths is to repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all firearms. This is the only solution.

Are you willing to support that?

Even that won't stop firearm deaths here. It may well limit them dramatically but it wont stop them. And it won't stop a bad guy with evil intent from carrying out his evil mission, it will simply force him to choose another tool with which to accomplish his goal.

One of the first things we can do is start holding people responsible who did not take action on these monsters using existing means. With this case in Florida both the school system and the mental health professional Cruz had been seeing bear responsibility.

(02-15-2018 09:02 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  One of the first things we can do is start holding people responsible who did not take action on these monsters using existing means. With this case in Florida both the school system and the mental health professional Cruz had been seeing bear responsibility.

I wonder though, does this lead to false positive reports? If I am mental health care professional I'm not going to take any chances purely out of self-preservation.

I don't like the idea of sanitariums full of people who did nothing but send an angry tweet. And that is exactly what a program like that would devolve too.

(02-15-2018 09:12 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:02 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  One of the first things we can do is start holding people responsible who did not take action on these monsters using existing means. With this case in Florida both the school system and the mental health professional Cruz had been seeing bear responsibility.

I wonder though, does this lead to false positive reports? If I am mental health care professional I'm not going to take any chances purely out of self-preservation.

I don't like the idea of sanitariums full of people who did nothing but send an angry tweet. And that is exactly what a program like that would devolve too.

Furthering that point, it would be a feasting ground for folks who don't like another's political opinions to just report them as mentally unfit and in need of further gov't controlling. Insert 1930s Germany and/or 1940s+ Soviet Union here... "Off to the gulags!!!"

These kind of things didn't happen with the same frequency in the 50's, 60's and 70's in these numbers and arguably the civilian availability of high capacity firearms was much greater then than now.

The problem is that people have changed.

Everybody with a death wish now wants to go out as a star and we have a media willing to turn them into celebrities with the 24 hour news cycle.

The basic moral fiber of our society is falling apart and until we address that anything else (like more gun control) is like putting a bandage on cancer.

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

I stopped reading after this. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence that a bigger public education budget = a safer school. Havent we been increasing the public education budget in the last 50 years or so?

(02-15-2018 09:12 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:02 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  One of the first things we can do is start holding people responsible who did not take action on these monsters using existing means. With this case in Florida both the school system and the mental health professional Cruz had been seeing bear responsibility.

I wonder though, does this lead to false positive reports? If I am mental health care professional I'm not going to take any chances purely out of self-preservation.

I don't like the idea of sanitariums full of people who did nothing but send an angry tweet. And that is exactly what a program like that would devolve too.

It would take a failure of both the mental health and multiple failures of the judicial system for there to be a false report. Even if you got an anti-gun doctor and an anti-gun judge chances are the scheme would be detected as you navigated the appeal process, further evaluations, etc. At that point if you determine an agenda driven diagnosis you start stripping the medical and legal professionals of their career licensing and you explore what avenues the civil court process would give you for redress.

(02-15-2018 09:26 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  Everybody with a death wish now wants to go out as a star and we have a media willing to turn them into celebrities with the 24 hour news cycle.

If someone wants to trash the Constitution in a way that could save lives then impose censorship over the mass media. Because spree killers all seek immortality. They want to be famous.

But instead we get "democracy dies in darkness" and Trump paid a hooker, or some plabum like that.

(02-15-2018 09:29 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

I stopped reading after this. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence that a bigger public education budget = a safer school. Havent we been increasing the public education budget in the last 50 years or so?

Fed money shouldn't be going for education that states should be funding.

(02-15-2018 09:26 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  These kind of things didn't happen with the same frequency in the 50's, 60's and 70's in these numbers and arguably the civilian availability of high capacity firearms was much greater then than now.

The problem is that people have changed.

Everybody with a death wish now wants to go out as a star and we have a media willing to turn them into celebrities with the 24 hour news cycle.

The basic moral fiber of our society is falling apart and until we address that anything else (like more gun control) is like putting a bandage on cancer.

Elephant in the room time: The primary root cause of school shootings (IMHO) is social media. As you point out, people want to go out in a blaze of glory, so what better way than to broadcast yourself via social media so that the world can connect the dots...

You would be better off having smart phone detectors at each entrance of the school and force all kids to give up their phones until the end of school. IMHO, that action would do more good than trying to dialogue about how it's wrong to shoot up your school (of course everyone knows that!).

(02-15-2018 10:05 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:29 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 05:38 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  A restless night for me stressing out over the latest school shooting tragedy in our country. Rather than rehash the same crap over again on stuff that isn't going to happen (re: gun control), I have a couple of thoughts/comments on how to make our schools a bit safer perhaps.

First off, the latest Trump budget proposal has education spending lowered by 5.3 percent (with some spending increase on education choices). Plain and simple, you can't take that much money away from schools and expect them to be safer. If we're losing teachers and administrators, schools become more dangerous and not less.

I stopped reading after this. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence that a bigger public education budget = a safer school. Havent we been increasing the public education budget in the last 50 years or so?

Fed money shouldn't be going for education that states should be funding.

completely agree.

If you are going to go the gun control route, then it has to be highly targeted. Just spit balling here, but if people are out there publicly posing with firearms and talking about shooting up a school, movie theater, etc...then that person needs to be given a compulsory psych exam and put on a temporary gun ban list pending the results of thorough psychiatric evaluations.

Of course this avenue is ripe for abuse. But we already know that the genie of social media and 24/7/365 news coverage is out of the bottle and we won't be able to go back.