(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What's the difference between saying Juco's are going to kill it when they switch to DI and saying juniors who become seniors aren't going to get any better? Both seem pretty naive. Now, if they don't all come back, you might be right about the team not being better next year, and odds are, they won't all come back.

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:26 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  Yep. There is no shame in admitting defeat that Tubby Smith isn't the right fit. If you know it isn't working, why wait?

i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

And Vanover will never be able to execute the flop correctly.

(02-15-2018 05:42 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

And Vanover will never be able to execute the flop correctly.

He would probably get a concussion from a flop.

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:26 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  Yep. There is no shame in admitting defeat that Tubby Smith isn't the right fit. If you know it isn't working, why wait?

i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

Maybe next's seasons crop of JC players is gonna be really, really good.

(02-15-2018 05:43 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 05:42 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

And Vanover will never be able to execute the flop correctly.

He would probably get a concussion from a flop.

o man...I can't begin to imagine how far down the ground is when you are that tall, so I got on a chair. How does he get in and out of cars even?

(02-15-2018 05:46 PM)mphsfan Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

What's the over/under on how many new ones we'll need?
As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

Maybe next's seasons crop of JC players is gonna be really, really good.

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:26 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  Yep. There is no shame in admitting defeat that Tubby Smith isn't the right fit. If you know it isn't working, why wait?

i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What are you even on about.. Didn't know it was crazy to think if everyone comes back they will improve during the offseason. Seems pretty logical to me.

(02-15-2018 06:34 PM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What are you even on about.. Didn't know it was crazy to think if everyone comes back they will improve during the offseason. Seems pretty logical to me.

You mean The Stammers Rule?

They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

(02-15-2018 06:56 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

(02-15-2018 07:10 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:56 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

(02-15-2018 07:17 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:10 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:56 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

Lol!

(02-15-2018 07:19 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:17 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:10 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:56 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

Lol!

You are a weird person.

5 neg reps in a row and now this?

memtiger1987
(All American)
*

Registration Date: 05-11-2010
Date of Birth: Not Specified
Local Time: 02-15-2018 at 06:18 PM
Status: Online (Viewing jamammy's Reputation @ 06:18 PM)

(02-15-2018 07:20 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:19 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:17 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:10 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:56 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  They might not hit the gym

Getting better in the off season is *a birthright

*not

Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

Lol!

You are a weird person.

5 neg reps in a row and now this?

memtiger1987
(All American)
*

Registration Date: 05-11-2010
Date of Birth: Not Specified
Local Time: 02-15-2018 at 06:18 PM
Status: Online (Viewing jamammy's Reputation @ 06:18 PM)

Weird? Son, I’ve never seen a stranger dude than you. But I deleted your negatives. Take all of mine, I don’t give a ****!

(02-15-2018 07:22 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:20 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:19 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:17 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:10 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  Most should be improved, others will regress (Rivers). It happens.

Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

Lol!

You are a weird person.

5 neg reps in a row and now this?

memtiger1987
(All American)
*

Registration Date: 05-11-2010
Date of Birth: Not Specified
Local Time: 02-15-2018 at 06:18 PM
Status: Online (Viewing jamammy's Reputation @ 06:18 PM)

Weird? Son, I’ve never seen a stranger dude than you. But I deleted your negatives. Take all of mine, I don’t give a ****!

I aion't your son, weirdo.

(02-15-2018 07:24 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:22 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:20 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:19 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:17 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Rivers will be water under the bridge next season.

Lol!

You are a weird person.

5 neg reps in a row and now this?

memtiger1987
(All American)
*

Registration Date: 05-11-2010
Date of Birth: Not Specified
Local Time: 02-15-2018 at 06:18 PM
Status: Online (Viewing jamammy's Reputation @ 06:18 PM)

Weird? Son, I’ve never seen a stranger dude than you. But I deleted your negatives. Take all of mine, I don’t give a ****!

I aion't your son, weirdo.

Ok, you’ve officially bored me.. IGNORE

(02-15-2018 07:37 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:24 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:22 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:20 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:19 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  Lol!

You are a weird person.

5 neg reps in a row and now this?

memtiger1987
(All American)
*

Registration Date: 05-11-2010
Date of Birth: Not Specified
Local Time: 02-15-2018 at 06:18 PM
Status: Online (Viewing jamammy's Reputation @ 06:18 PM)

Weird? Son, I’ve never seen a stranger dude than you. But I deleted your negatives. Take all of mine, I don’t give a ****!

I aion't your son, weirdo.

Ok, you’ve officially bored me.. IGNORE

Does this mean you will stop being a jerk?

(02-15-2018 06:34 PM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:52 AM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  i think thats one of the more frustrating things. if you dont think you will offer him an extension, why wait? i get the idea of waiting out year 3 to see what he can do. i understand why tubby supporters say that, but what in the world makes you think yr 3 is going to produce anything better than what is currently on the court

Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What are you even on about.. Didn't know it was crazy to think if everyone comes back they will improve during the offseason. Seems pretty logical to me.

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

Last three two-year JUCOs of note at Memphis:

Geron Johnson:
2012-13: 29 mpg. 44% fg, 35% 3pt. 10.4 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.6 rpg
2013-14: 28 mpg. 41% fg. 26% 3pt. 8.9 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.9 rpg.

Trahson Burrell:
2014-15: 24 mpg. 45% fg. 29% 3pt. 9.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2 apg.
2015-16: 24 mpg: 43% fg. 32% 3pt. 10.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3 apg.

Jimario Rivers:
2016-17: 22 mpg. 57% fg. 6.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1 apg.
2017-17: 24 mpg. 46% fg. 6.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2 apg.

As you can note, there is little separation between their junior and senior years. They are pretty much what they are.

(02-15-2018 08:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:34 PM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:33 AM)airric2255 Wrote:  Barring transfers and knowing what we know today, next year you are trading Connor Vanover for Jimario Rivers.

As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What are you even on about.. Didn't know it was crazy to think if everyone comes back they will improve during the offseason. Seems pretty logical to me.

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

Last three two-year JUCOs of note at Memphis:

Geron Johnson:
2012-13: 29 mpg. 44% fg, 35% 3pt. 10.4 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.6 rpg
2013-14: 28 mpg. 41% fg. 26% 3pt. 8.9 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.9 rpg.

Trahson Burrell:
2014-15: 24 mpg. 45% fg. 29% 3pt. 9.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2 apg.
2015-16: 24 mpg: 43% fg. 32% 3pt. 10.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3 apg.

Jimario Rivers:
2016-17: 22 mpg. 57% fg. 6.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1 apg.
2017-17: 24 mpg. 46% fg. 6.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2 apg.

As you can note, there is little separation between their junior and senior years. They are pretty much what they are.

I get that and you make good points. You typically do. I'm saying as a team, I expect them to be better as a whole. Of course, I could be wrong and the tubby era is just a complete **** show.

(02-15-2018 09:43 PM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 08:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 06:34 PM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 03:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:20 AM)MEMPHIS TIGERS Wrote:  As of now. Losing Rivers is not going to hurt. We also could add a few more pieces. Not saying the team is all of a sudden going to be great but you would think they should improve by next season. They will def be better next year.

Like how?

Is Martin really going to become a 23 ppg player? Has he hit his peak or is there still more for him?

Thornton and Davenport are what they are, same for Brewton. These guys, after years of playing basketball aren't going to have some magical summer epiphany and change.

You guys fall into the "hope" notion over the "logic" notion when it comes to this every time. Just like you folks tried to convince yourselves the JUCO kids weren't really going to be JUCO level talent and somehow become upper level D1 players (and it hasn't happened) you now expect magic growth over the summer guys who pretty much are what they are.

Vanover will be a net loss next year in a trade for Rivers. Rivers doesn't do a whole lot, but he can guard multiple positions and can get up and down the court. Vanover is averaging 8 and 6 in high school, Rivers is actually averaging 7 and 4 in D1.

What are you even on about.. Didn't know it was crazy to think if everyone comes back they will improve during the offseason. Seems pretty logical to me.

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

Last three two-year JUCOs of note at Memphis:

Geron Johnson:
2012-13: 29 mpg. 44% fg, 35% 3pt. 10.4 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.6 rpg
2013-14: 28 mpg. 41% fg. 26% 3pt. 8.9 ppg, 3.5 apg, 4.9 rpg.

Trahson Burrell:
2014-15: 24 mpg. 45% fg. 29% 3pt. 9.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2 apg.
2015-16: 24 mpg: 43% fg. 32% 3pt. 10.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3 apg.

Jimario Rivers:
2016-17: 22 mpg. 57% fg. 6.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1 apg.
2017-17: 24 mpg. 46% fg. 6.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2 apg.

As you can note, there is little separation between their junior and senior years. They are pretty much what they are.

I get that and you make good points. You typically do. I'm saying as a team, I expect them to be better as a whole. Of course, I could be wrong and the tubby era is just a complete **** show.

My only counterpoint to this would be that the entire Tubby Smith era has been a **** show so why would next season be any different