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Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 11:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 11:19 AM)cpawstoney Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 10:35 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Pinto might not be a tweet machine, but he does seem to be quietly moving the needle and increasing the scope of UC's reach in the state.

Pinto wasn't a factor in getting this started. He assumed his position as president February, 2017.

I know. We had an interim for awhile. The important aspect from OSU's part was that Ono was gone. Only then did they think they could have an honest, reliable partner with which to move forward.

But would OSU have partnered with us if Ono hadn't raised the issue of multiple flagships?

You may be right about Ono's motivations. But I think we unintentionally played a perfect game of good cop/bad cop. Ono's loudmouthing made OSU realize that there is another strong university in the state with the same institutional goals as them.
 
02-13-2018 12:32 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 11:54 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 09:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  [Image: DV7B6NOU8AAWV7Z.jpg]

What uniform is the Bearcat wearing?

This is not the only thing I am getting out of this thread. :) I agree with most here that this is a really good thing - to be one of two representatives at the statehouse for this issue, next to OSU. Lets be realistic - OSU is the land grant university in Ohio but we can be a close second to them in most things (and better than them in some). That is not a bad place to be. I went to both schools and liked UC better. It's just a different flavor of really good. I like President Pinto's quiet way of working to improve the university. I am sure his goals are similar to Ono's, just done in a more diplomatic way.

I would guess his goals regarding an AAU invite and CCC designation are similar. I think that he's probably abandoned the multiple or co-flagship (which is what Ono was really getting at) thing and is working to secure a solid "second school" in the system. The VaTech to their UVA so to speak, which I think is attainable, UC's proper role in the system and will help move the university forward both nationally and in the rest of Ohio more than tilting at the windmill of co-flagship status.

The CCC designation is probably the most important one, and I've heard that's where Pinto is putting most of his emphasis in preparing the 1600 page application.

We're further from AAU status than most believe. We do well in some of the hard metrics, such as total research $, federal research $, federal research $ per tenured faculty member. We don't do so well in others (we only have 8 members of the National Academies, and they're all in medicine). It's in the soft metrics that we really fall short, and these include things such as undergraduate reputation and selectivity and broad based strength among core doctoral programs (i.e. things like physics, economics, chemistry, history, political science). This last item is what kept even Georgia Tech out for years as they were seen as too one-dimensional. I've posted the National Research Council's most recent rankings of Ph.D programs, and UC doesn't do as well as most would think. Many times, we're not even the second ranked public in Ohio and when we are, we're almost always closer to the third ranked public in Ohio than we are to OSU. We beat OSU in neuroscience and are roughly equal to them in Aerospace Engineering, but that's it where we're truly competitive.

So is OSU to blame for this? I'm going to answer with a resounding no. The problem is two-fold. First, OSU and the rest of Ohio had no control over UC until the late 70s. The Cincinnati business and political establishment had a century to build up a great urban university, and they chose not to. They built up the medical school and were quite content to let the rest of the university be a commuter school. Had they invested more broadly into building a modern research university the way Pittsburgh did with Pitt, we'd probably already be in the AAU. And the second factor contributing to this was what the Ohio state system had become by the time we joined it. It was a largely unregulated, over-built system with massive redundancies in graduate and professional programs. It's not Ohio State's strengths that held back UC, it's the spread the peanut butter mentality that led to the funding of countless unnecessary and mediocre programs at OU or Toledo or KSU. Money that could have better been spent building up UC.

So, moving forward, I don't see UC having the resources to simultaneously make a big push to both strengthen the cancer hospital to secure a CCC designation and build up numerous departments across the board from Astronomy to Zoology to move us into the AAU. Right now, and just based on the hard metrics, we're at best the third public in line after Utah and NC State (publics ranked on P 20). And with the glacial pace that the AAU takes on members, that probably equates to a decade or two away. So, my guess is that the CCC bid will take precedence over the AAU. If we get the former, continue to improve on the latter and work constructively with Ohio State to impose some structure and hierarchy on a historically (at least since 1960) unruly higher education system, then our role as the Michigan State or VaTech should come easily and naturally.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 02:36 PM by Bearcat 1985.)
02-13-2018 12:43 PM
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Bearcat1010 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
The best thing for the joint OSU approach was the departure of Gee and Ono. Those two egos got in the way of any dialog for quite a while. I think both did some good (possibly great) work for their universities but right now we are in a better place with a more traditional approach.

It's in UC's best interest to work with OSU. OSU is getting a bulk of the funding but UC can position itself as a very solid #2 rather than get mixed in with the rabble with Miami and the regional MAC schools.

I'm not downplaying UC at all but the advantage of OSU being a land-grant university cannot be ignored. There are significant differences in everything from funding opportunities to visibility and exposure.
 
02-13-2018 12:45 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 12:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 11:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 11:19 AM)cpawstoney Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 10:35 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Pinto might not be a tweet machine, but he does seem to be quietly moving the needle and increasing the scope of UC's reach in the state.

Pinto wasn't a factor in getting this started. He assumed his position as president February, 2017.

I know. We had an interim for awhile. The important aspect from OSU's part was that Ono was gone. Only then did they think they could have an honest, reliable partner with which to move forward.

But would OSU have partnered with us if Ono hadn't raised the issue of multiple flagships?

You may be right about Ono's motivations. But I think we unintentionally played a perfect game of good cop/bad cop. Ono's loudmouthing made OSU realize that there is another strong university in the state with the same institutional goals as them.

Yes, I do. OSU's primary interest for decades has not been keeping UC down. It's in establishing a structured and regulated system similar to what California has. If UC is an honest partner in that, then yes I do think that both OSU would be working with UC right now and that Ono's public grandstanding was more of an obstruction to that cooperation than any type of catalyst for it. The proof is in the positive ties that were developed with OSU under Zimpher. Also for Ono's grandstanding to be effective and "force" OSU into something it would have needed to be a real threat. OSU's President was most likely on the phone the very day Ono's op-ed piece came out to the Governor , the Regents Chancellor and the appropriate legislators in both Houses and both parties. The state literally released a statement within days saying that "multiple flagships" was a non-starter. So Ono's grandstanding was essentially toothless and didn't force OSU into anything they didn't want to do.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 12:54 PM by Bearcat 1985.)
02-13-2018 12:50 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 12:45 PM)Bearcat1010 Wrote:  The best thing for the joint OSU approach was the departure of Gee and Ono. Those two egos got in the way of any dialog for quite a while. I think both did some good (possibly great) work for their universities but right now we are in a better place with a more traditional approach.

It's in UC's best interest to work with OSU. OSU is getting a bulk of the funding but UC can position itself as a very solid #2 rather than get mixed in with the rabble with Miami and the regional MAC schools.

I'm not downplaying UC at all but the advantage of OSU being a land-grant university cannot be ignored. There are significant differences in everything from funding opportunities to visibility and exposure.

Exactly and couldn't agree more about getting the grandstanders out of the way. I think Gee's mentality was still stuck in the early 90s when he had to fight to reestablish OSU as the state's flagship in the minds of everyone from Ohio's business leadership and politicians to high school counselors. It was a combative model that was completely wrong for his second tenure. And credit to OSU's trustees for showing him the door when that (and his stupid public remarks) became evident even though many of them had personally taken a role in bringing him back from Vanderbilt.
 
02-13-2018 12:53 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 12:24 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 10:35 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 09:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  First saw this a couple weeks ago, but we are representing the statehouse along with OSU to address public college funding at the Statehouse for the second year in the row. We are continuing to outpace the other public schools in the state as the #2 all around voice in the state (Miami U. is higher ranked, Kent State is nearly just as big, Ohio U is Harvard on the Hocking, but we are the best total package).



Neville G. Pinto‏ @Prez_Pinto · 41m41 minutes ago

Headed to the State House on this #TravelTuesday for the 2nd Annual Bearcats and Buckeyes day! It is going to be a great day.

[Image: DV7B6NOU8AAWV7Z.jpg]

I believe that this is the second year. Interesting that it started after Ono was out the door. I think there might be something to be said for working quietly with Ohio State with reasonable and achievable goals for UC's place within the system rather than poking a stick at them in public ("multiple flagships") while blaming them for your failures (no AAU/no CCC) in private. Pinto might not be a tweet machine, but he does seem to be quietly moving the needle and increasing the scope of UC's reach in the state.

As for Miami, I'm guessing showing up at the Illinois statehouse would be more appropriate for them these days.

Illinois I guess because California is too long a trip?

Illinois because 25% of their freshmen are coming from the Chicago metro area. 65% Ohio/25% Chicago/10% Other OOS
 
02-13-2018 12:56 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 12:27 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Oh yes great idea. UC working with OSU is great just like South Korea working with North Korea on human rights.

So what's your solution? Remain one of the pack of hyenas nipping at the lion's heel and hoping to come out on top. There's at least six other publics that think they should be OSU's 2nd....if not be OSU themselves. OU was first and they've been patiently waiting for 200 years for their rightful spot on top. Miami's special because somebody called them a "public ivy" forty years ago. Toledo and Bowling Green because the mentality up there is that they've been shortchanged forever by the state and should get anything that Columbus or Cincinnati gets. The old Akron President could even top Ono when it came to publicly taking shots at OSU.

Or does UC smarten up and realize that its interests lie in a structured and rational higher education system that secures that second spot (and rightfully so) for them above the pack of hyenas. We're never going to become "the" lion. That was determined by political decision made 150 years ago, but we damned well deserve to be "a" lion, and that beats being strongest hyena.

I think it smartened up under Zimpher, took a step backwards with Ono's self-promoting grandstanding and is now back on track with Pinto.
 
02-13-2018 01:18 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
(02-13-2018 01:18 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 12:27 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Oh yes great idea. UC working with OSU is great just like South Korea working with North Korea on human rights.

So what's your solution? Remain one of the pack of hyenas nipping at the lion's heel and hoping to come out on top. There's at least six other publics that think they should be OSU's 2nd....if not be OSU themselves. OU was first and they've been patiently waiting for 200 years for their rightful spot on top. Miami's special because somebody called them a "public ivy" forty years ago. Toledo and Bowling Green because the mentality up there is that they've been shortchanged forever by the state and should get anything that Columbus or Cincinnati gets. The old Akron President could even top Ono when it came to publicly taking shots at OSU.

Or does UC smarten up and realize that its interests lie in a structured and rational higher education system that secures that second spot (and rightfully so) for them above the pack of hyenas. We're never going to become "the" lion. That was determined by political decision made 150 years ago, but we damned well deserve to be "a" lion, and that beats being strongest hyena.

I think it smartened up under Zimpher, took a step backwards with Ono's self-promoting grandstanding and is now back on track with Pinto.

No need to take him seriously. Doss is just doing what Doss does.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 01:20 PM by bearcatmark.)
02-13-2018 01:19 PM
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Cat_Litter Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
My favorite Brutus pic. My son was going to OU at the time and knew the mascot. He signed up for classes just to apply for the mascot gig, then dropped all his classes. They tried to throw him out but couldn't since he was no longer enrolled anyway.
Video: Persistent guy anyway



[Image: xkZpYLSSuKXraCJXP9U6HC0OLDhklSSV3qV18Q0v...41-h587-no]
 
02-13-2018 02:02 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Bearcats and Buckeye Day at the Ohio State House
I like that we are taller than Brutus...he's all short-n-stuff
 
02-13-2018 02:31 PM
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