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payday Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Bubble Watch
BCmark is right. That 2002 team is still the better team until prove otherwise. That 8 seed they lost to was UCLA. An inconsistent team that had three NBA draft picks that spent half the season in the AP Top 15 (as high as #3). An awful draw. They hit some miracle shots to take it to double OT and stokes just missed the game winner to end the first OT. Clearly a title contender if they win that game.
02-10-2018 10:40 AM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 10:15 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 10:01 AM)rosewater Wrote:  I do not know how you found an insult for the life of me. No, I did not do the metrics because a comparison between the metrics in 2002 and 2017 is silly. I am sure adjusted defense went down considerably in 1982 from 1981 with the implementation of the shot clock.

I did make the mistake about the 2000 team. They were the best in the time period and I forgot them.

The 2013 team was much like the 2002 team and were led by all americans that constituted the girth of their offense. The 02 team produced zero NBA players where as the 13 sent one player to the league. The 02 team had three top 25 victories over Marquette twice when they were 9 and 13 and over number 19 Wake. In addition they lost to number 21 Oklahoma State. The 13 team had victories over Memphis (18, 20) Louisville 12, and eventual champion Connecticut at 12. So the 13 team had more top 25 victories. The 02 team lost in the tournament to an 8 seed where the 13 team lost to a 12 seed.

Not seeing a big difference between the two teams other than the number one seed. Many will say that we were overrated in that spot and I cannot disagree.

You don't see a difference in Conference Regular Season Champions, Conference Tournament Champions, 1 seed, RPI #3, 8-2 v. RPI top 50, 17-3 v. RPI top 100. #2 kenpom adjusted efficiency (first year he kept that stat), total adjusted efficiency margin that season was +30.19, 7th in adjusted offense and 3rd in adjusted defense.

And

regular season conference title, 5 seed in tournament, 6-6 v. RPI top 50, 10-7 v. RPI top 100, Only 27 in kenpom, 98 adj offense, 9 adj def and 19.24 adj efficiently?


Those two teams weren't in the same stratosphere. The only real similarity is both had an all american guard.
So, same as conference champion, 02 won the conference usa title where 13 lost to eventual Ncaa champion UConn, the one v. 5 seed does not carry weight since we lost in round 2. It was not like we had injuries or any excuse not to win. UCLA was as good as us that day. I think it is pretty insignificant for a number one seed to puff out their chest over wins not below the top 25 let alone the top 100.

The 02 was a pleasant surprise for me and a very fun season, but a bunch of good statistics against middling teams does not make that team better than the 13 team.
02-10-2018 10:43 AM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 10:40 AM)payday Wrote:  BCmark is right. That 2002 team is still the better team until prove otherwise. That 8 seed they lost to was UCLA. An inconsistent team that had three NBA draft picks that spent half the season in the AP Top 15 (as high as #3). An awful draw. They hit some miracle shots to take it to double OT and stokes just missed the game winner to end the first OT. Clearly a title contender if they win that game.

Ucla lost the next game to 12 seeded Missouri.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 10:50 AM by rosewater.)
02-10-2018 10:46 AM
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payday Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 10:43 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 10:15 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 10:01 AM)rosewater Wrote:  I do not know how you found an insult for the life of me. No, I did not do the metrics because a comparison between the metrics in 2002 and 2017 is silly. I am sure adjusted defense went down considerably in 1982 from 1981 with the implementation of the shot clock.

I did make the mistake about the 2000 team. They were the best in the time period and I forgot them.

The 2013 team was much like the 2002 team and were led by all americans that constituted the girth of their offense. The 02 team produced zero NBA players where as the 13 sent one player to the league. The 02 team had three top 25 victories over Marquette twice when they were 9 and 13 and over number 19 Wake. In addition they lost to number 21 Oklahoma State. The 13 team had victories over Memphis (18, 20) Louisville 12, and eventual champion Connecticut at 12. So the 13 team had more top 25 victories. The 02 team lost in the tournament to an 8 seed where the 13 team lost to a 12 seed.

Not seeing a big difference between the two teams other than the number one seed. Many will say that we were overrated in that spot and I cannot disagree.

You don't see a difference in Conference Regular Season Champions, Conference Tournament Champions, 1 seed, RPI #3, 8-2 v. RPI top 50, 17-3 v. RPI top 100. #2 kenpom adjusted efficiency (first year he kept that stat), total adjusted efficiency margin that season was +30.19, 7th in adjusted offense and 3rd in adjusted defense.

And

regular season conference title, 5 seed in tournament, 6-6 v. RPI top 50, 10-7 v. RPI top 100, Only 27 in kenpom, 98 adj offense, 9 adj def and 19.24 adj efficiently?


Those two teams weren't in the same stratosphere. The only real similarity is both had an all american guard.
So, same as conference champion, 02 won the conference usa title where 13 lost to eventual Ncaa champion UConn, the one v. 5 seed does not carry weight since we lost in round 2. It was not like we had injuries or any excuse not to win. UCLA was as good as us that day. I think it is pretty insignificant for a number one seed to puff out their chest over wins not below the top 25 let alone the top 100.

The 02 was a pleasant surprise for me and a very fun season, but a bunch of good statistics against middling teams does not make that team better than the 13 team.

Yes it does
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 10:47 AM by payday.)
02-10-2018 10:46 AM
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payday Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Bubble Watch
The 2002 team beat Final Poll #22 X, #17 Miss St, and #12 Marquette (twice)...and regular season #8 Wake Forest. Logan was unanimous First Team AA and in my mind should have been NPOY.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 10:55 AM by payday.)
02-10-2018 10:54 AM
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payday Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 10:46 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 10:40 AM)payday Wrote:  BCmark is right. That 2002 team is still the better team until prove otherwise. That 8 seed they lost to was UCLA. An inconsistent team that had three NBA draft picks that spent half the season in the AP Top 15 (as high as #3). An awful draw. They hit some miracle shots to take it to double OT and stokes just missed the game winner to end the first OT. Clearly a title contender if they win that game.

Ucla lost the next game to 12 seeded Missouri.

Like I said. They were inconsistent. Doesn’t change anything I posted.
02-10-2018 11:00 AM
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bearcatmark Online
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Post: #37
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 10:43 AM)rosewater Wrote:  So, same as conference champion, 02 won the conference usa title where 13 lost to eventual Ncaa champion UConn, the one v. 5 seed does not carry weight since we lost in round 2. It was not like we had injuries or any excuse not to win. UCLA was as good as us that day. I think it is pretty insignificant for a number one seed to puff out their chest over wins not below the top 25 let alone the top 100.

The 02 was a pleasant surprise for me and a very fun season, but a bunch of good statistics against middling teams does not make that team better than the 13 team.

I can't take you seriously at this point. Meddling teams? They beat the crap out of the top 50 and top100. Their one seed resume looks like almost every one seed resume we've seen.
02-10-2018 11:00 AM
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Agust Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Bubble Watch
All this greatest team talk has me thinking how sweet it will be knowing that Houston already has a win against wsu greatest team ever and another one coming against cincys greatest team in 20+ years. (Should've been 2 if it weren't for the refs). definitely a team on the rise.
02-10-2018 11:04 AM
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nafstrops Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-09-2018 03:54 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  UC's SOS is now projected to finish in the low to mid 50's. BFD

UC's OOC SOS currently sits at #112 which is still 80+ spots ahead of Texas Tech, 25+ spots ahead of Miami, 120+ spots ahead of Michigan State, and 75 spots or so ahead of West Virginia. Once again, BFD

Don't know where you are getting your ratings, but according to KenPom, Cincinnati has an OOC SOS of 297. West Virginia 287, the other two you mentioned are below Cincinnati.
02-10-2018 11:12 AM
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BcatMatt13 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Bubble Watch
(02-10-2018 07:19 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 03:28 PM)payday Wrote:  Welcome to the land of the locked, Cincinnati. Life is better on the safe side of the bubble.

Sure, the Bearcats' seed can still fall, but once you've attained the august privilege of Bubble Watch lock status, it can never be revoked. There are no "unlocks," ever.

Cincinnati earned its shiny new label through a combination of performance and happenstance. Mick Cronin's team has continued to take care of business, of course, running its record to 22-2 and its winning streak to 15 games.

The Bearcats have held their opponents in American Athletic Conference play to just 0.81 points per possession, a ridiculously small number that makes even Virginia sit up and take notice. Scoring against Jacob Evans, Gary Clark & Co. is no mean feat. Your best strategy might be sheer bracket avoidance.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...imson-tide

just pray your not in the same bracket as Xavier

The tournament isn't being played at the Cintas Center...
02-10-2018 11:14 AM
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