charles Wrote:Mike Price is not looking to leave and his age as well as the fact that many puritans still don't like him makes him a less likely prospect to land at an Oklahoma or Tennessee and it would have to be a school of that ilk to get his attention at all. He's not going to jump to Baylor or Oregon State.

I don't think he'll leave either. I should have said "if" instead of "when".
Here's a man who took Wazzu to 2 rose bowls; that's a Wazzu who has far and away the worst of nearly everything (money, facilities, extremely remote location) in the PAC 10.
I said it when he was hired, that he is a particularly great fit for UTEP

Smackdown Wrote:Edison,

I think the MWC is definitely asking that question.

Why?

The MWC may have come across the money in its new package with CSTV to start thinking 12-team league. Especially if the Big East continues the disappointment that it is this year.

So who are the candidates for three spots.
1) Boise State, in line as a replacement for Wyoming if UW doesn't meet standards.
2) Fresno State, needs some time to remove self from academic scandals.
3) . . . . There is virtually no support for Hawaii in the conference, because of travel.
. . . . UNLV made a motion for Nevada to join during the TCU deal, because politically they had to. They knew, and really didn't care, that it died for lack of a second.
. . . . Which brings it back to UTEP.

Assuming that you are familiar with El Paso, and assuming that CSTV deal works and MWC goes to 12, you have to know that there would be a LOT of support for making that move. It would be back to UTEP's days in the old WAC, would be primarily in their time zone.

The two drawbacks to UTEP are TV market size -- (101st in the nation, ranking below some cities that you would never dream would be ahead of a 500,000-plus city) -- and academics -- (UTEP admittance standards are fairly low in comparison to MWC schools).

The MWC blew their chance with UTEP. If UTEP ever leaves CUSA it will be for a BCS conference. Now if the MWC is about to become that type of conference than sure UTEP if invited would leave. But we all know that is not about to happen.

MWC has nothing that CUSA already have. And our TV deal will still be better than the MWC. Yes it would benefit UTEP to play in it's own time zone for traveling purposes. But UTEP will be exposed to more people nationally playing in CUSA which is something the MWC can't do for them.

HiddenDragon Wrote:Yes it would benefit UTEP to play in it's own time zone for traveling purposes.  But UTEP will be exposed to more people nationally playing in CUSA which is something the MWC can't do for them.

Wrong! Even in the old WAC UTEP always complained about the cost of travel and the lack of exposure east of the Mississippi and in Texas. That is why UTEP and New Mexico lobbied for the Texas schools and Tulsa to be invited to the old WAC. Traveling to places without airports and in the rockies is far more expensive than traveling east and southwest. Even just for political and academic reasons UTEP wants more ties to Texas. UTEP is not going to the MWC, period. If the Pac-10 comes calling that's a different story...for obvious reasons.

EdisonDoyle Wrote:(1) If you think the BCS will change to delete the BE, only to bring in MWC, you are in real dreamland.

(2) The MWC may not want Hawaii, but BYU does. What BYU wants (TCU, CSTV, eg) BYU gets.
Would UTEP want the MWC? Are they mountain or texan? Have they calculated the minor sports benefits in C-USA, which do matter in this age of Title IX and equity funding?

(3) What about the recruiting- is it improved playing in C-USA or not?

(4) TCU's leaving C-USA is hardly dispositive of an objective analysis of the benefits from the 2 leagues - there were historical grudges, cultures and other factors at work.

(5) There is not a single other C-USA team at that time that would have made TCU's choice, given the opportunity.

(6) I agree with you that if the MWC wants to expand, they will knock on UTEP's door (I'd guess Fresno for sure, 2 of UTEP, Nevada or Hawaii - Boise nada ).

(1) No, I don't. I've argued since last summer that the Big East, no matter how weak it is, will always be included in the BCS because of it's geography.

(2) Not according to the BYU president. He's not asking for Hawaii at all.

(3) That will have to wait and see. UTEP has always recruited San Antonio better than any of the other major Texas cities. Ironically, TCU probably recruits San Antonio second behind UTEP.

(4) Yes, there were historical grudges, cultures and other factors at work. But TCU's decision -- rightly or wrongly -- was based on finances. And, those financial numbers only got better after the CSTV deal. (And yes, I'll agree with you that more money may not make up for exposure.)

(5) There was a team asking TCU to try to develop coattails and get them included.

(6) I assure you Boise is there. The MWC continues to put on solid confidence that Wyoming can meet the new I-A standards, but they do have an unwritten agreement that Boise comes in should Wyoming falter. (And, for my money, Wyoming is going under; they're attendance, even with improved scheduling for weather has been terrible this year.)

HiddenDragon Wrote:The MWC blew their chance with UTEP. If UTEP ever leaves CUSA it will be for a BCS conference. Now if the MWC is about to become that type of conference than sure UTEP if invited would leave. But we all know that is not about to happen.

MWC has nothing that CUSA already have. And our TV deal will still be better than the MWC. Yes it would benefit UTEP to play in it's own time zone for traveling purposes. But UTEP will be exposed to more people nationally playing in CUSA which is something the MWC can't do for them.

Nail meet head!

Could not have said it better myself.

The only point I will make is it is better for UTEP to play the Texas teams over playing in their own time zone.

charles Wrote:Traveling to places without airports and in the rockies is far more expensive than traveling east and southwest.

Which is why an American Airlines charter flight with a 747 is substantially cheaper flying into Fort Collins, Colo., than flying a smaller jetliner into Hattiesburg, Miss.

Thanks for clearing that up! :own3d:

Smackdown Wrote:

charles Wrote:Traveling to places without airports and in the rockies is far more expensive than traveling east and southwest.

Which is why an American Airlines charter flight with a 747 is substantially cheaper flying into Fort Collins, Colo., than flying a smaller jetliner into Hattiesburg, Miss.

Thanks for clearing that up! :own3d:

UTEP at most travels to hattiesburg every 4 years. In the MWC there are a bunch of hattiesburgs to go to every year. In C-USA UTEP can travel cheap on Southwest Airlines to most destinations. There is way, no matter how much you spin, that you can make a convincing argument to get UTEP out of C-USA and back into the MWC(and I say back because the MWC is the old WAC).

Albquerque, Las Vegas, San Diego, Salt Lake City . . . yeah, whatever . . . .

:own3d:

Smackdown Wrote:

charles Wrote:Traveling to places without airports and in the rockies is far more expensive than traveling east and southwest.

Which is why an American Airlines charter flight with a 747 is substantially cheaper flying into Fort Collins, Colo., than flying a smaller jetliner into Hattiesburg, Miss.

Thanks for clearing that up! :own3d:

Over any 2 year period, UTEP's football team will make 8 roadtrips.
5 of those will be to New Orleans, Houston, Houston again, Dallas and Tulsa.

Of the 3 others, 1.5 will be to Orlando, Birmingham and Memphis.

So that leaves 1.5 to Huntington, Greenville or H Burg - which, on average is 3/4 of an inconvenient trip per season.

Smackdown Wrote:Albquerque, Las Vegas, San Diego, Salt Lake City . . . yeah, whatever . . . .

:own3d:

Those ain't the places UTEP recruits in nor where UTEP wants exposure in. UTEP's emphasis right now is to build up its standing in Texas instead of trying to re-connect with mountain time zone schools in other states. Like I said this goes beyond just athletics. El Paso wants to be considered part of Texas not part of New Mexico and going to the MWC will not help. Give it up, it just ain't gonna happen.

Utep is a great addition to the conference but come on guys.UTEP has had 3 winning seasons in 20 something years.It's great that they are doing well but you guys act like they have been hanging the moon for years.Remember Tulame was undefeated a few years back and now look at them.I think all you TCU bashers at least have to agree that year end and year out TCU has been a lot more consistant than UTEP.That being said congrats UTEP on your great year.

charles Wrote:

Smackdown Wrote:Albquerque, Las Vegas, San Diego, Salt Lake City . . . yeah, whatever . . . .

:own3d:

Those ain't the places UTEP recruits in nor where UTEP wants exposure in.

I didn't say ANYTHING about recruiting or exposure. Hell, that's a given.
What I brought up was the travel expense.
Now, you're changing the subject.

So since we're changing subjects . . .

It's kind of ironic the tie between UTEP and TCU.
UTEP helped TCU get its recent success rolling.
Franchione's first year, Frogs salvaged 6-5 record late.
Two weeks after season is over, Sun Bowl shows interest in TCU.
Sun Bowl officials angry over MWC's exclusion of UTEP. They don't want an MWC team. They want a WAC team.
TCU guarantees to sell x number of tickets. Gets invited.
TCU throttles USC.
Momentum builds.
TCU beats UTEP for WAC title. Both go to bowl games.
TCU leaves for C-USA.
Three years later, TCU leaves for MWC.
UTEP invited in as TCU's replacement.

I have no idea if the MWC is going to work. I can see how it can, and I can see how it won't as well. Only time will tell. But, if it doesn't work, TCU has to get back to the East. And, if UTEP does find all its hoping for in C-USA, that locks TCU into the west -- barring something extreme.

duke2004 Wrote:Utep is a great addition to the conference but come on guys.UTEP has had 3 winning seasons in 20 something years.It's great that they are doing well but you guys act like they have been hanging the moon for years.Remember Tulame was undefeated a few years back and now look at them.I think all you TCU bashers at least have to agree that year end and year out TCU has been a lot more consistant than UTEP.That being said congrats UTEP on your great year.

I will take UTEP's facilities, fan support, conference membership(C-USA), and our coaches and administration any day of the week right now over TCU's. Only time will tell who does better. We are happy with our school and with being in C-USA. I haven't bashed TCU. Others have but not me. I don't really have an ax to grind against TCU specifically but as I said I do root against the MWC and the Big East because I view them as our most direct competitors in the college football hierarchy but it is nothing personal just business.

TCU has no facilities.
TCU has no attendance.
And TCU is stuck with the National AD of the Year, as voted upon by peers.

Yeah, we've got nothing.

duke2004 Wrote:Utep is a great addition to the conference but come on guys.UTEP has had 3 winning seasons in 20 something years.It's great that they are doing well but you guys act like they have been hanging the moon for years.Remember Tulame was undefeated a few years back and now look at them.I think all you TCU bashers at least have to agree that year end and year out TCU has been a lot more consistant than UTEP.That being said congrats UTEP on your great year.

Depends on when you start counting.
For the last 7 years or so, yes, TCU has been good.
Before that, as inconsistent, if not moreso, than "Tulame" as you put it, which did follow up its 12-0 season with another bowl victory a few years later.
And this year, it looks like a losing season for consistently good TCU - something like "Tulame's" 5-7 season of last year.

from the viewpoint of this SMU fan, TCU's leaving for the MWC is the best of both worlds for us. We still get to play them in our annual rivalry games, but we also get Houston, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa and Tulane as division mates. All good choices for SMU. I would have been O.K. with La Tech, too. Sure beats games with San Jose State.

Charleston Pony Wrote:from the viewpoint of this SMU fan, TCU's leaving for the MWC is the best of both worlds for us. We still get to play them in our annual rivalry games, but we also get Houston, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa and Tulane as division mates. All good choices for SMU. I would have been O.K. with La Tech, too. Sure beats games with San Jose State.

Same for us. The only western schools UTEP has a long history and geographical proximity with are NMSU, New Mexico, Arizona, and Arizona State and we can schedule them out of conference if we feel like playing them.

Charles, threads have titles for a reason. If you don't want to hear it, then don't read it.

Moved a topic praising UTEP over TCU because a UTEP fan apparently disagrees with it. :rolleyes:

I should sell tickets to this board.

No offense, but judge both UTEP and TCU in about 3 or 4 years. Just looking at the last 6-7 years, this year is an aberration for both schools. Now, if UTEP continues to play well after Price leaves (which he will), and TCU continues to play poorly, its a win for CUSA. But history says that won't happen. TCU had a year like this in 2001, and despite making a bowl, everyone said it showed that TCU was declining. We didn't decline. UTEP had a very good year in 2000. In fact, it should have been one to build on, but they didn't. Until either team proves that they will continue what's happening this year, then no one knows who got the best end of the deal.

Frog81 Wrote:No offense, but judge both UTEP and TCU in about 3 or 4 years.  Just looking at the last 6-7 years, this year is an aberration for both schools.  Now, if UTEP continues to play well after Price leaves (which he will), and TCU continues to play poorly, its a win for CUSA.  But history says that won't happen.  TCU had a year like this in 2001, and despite making a bowl, everyone said it showed that TCU was declining.  We didn't decline.  UTEP had a very good year in 2000.  In fact, it should have been one to build on, but they didn't.  Until either team proves that they will continue what's happening this year, then no one knows who got the best end of the deal.

Frog81, no doubt TCU has the better football history than UTEP. But all UTEP needed was the right guy to come there to do the job and they have it with Price. Whether or not Price leave isn't the question at the moment. But what is a fact right now is that UTEP is a better overall program than TCU in football and basketball. I'm sure Price if given the opportunity would like to be back coaching a BCS program that is capable of winning a national championship. But Price also knows he's sitting on a gold mine (pardon the pun) at UTEP.

TCU goes into the MWC limping badly. It was expected that TCU would dominate CUSA this year and it hasn't happened. UTEP on the other hand wasn't expected to do much and has surpassed everyone expectations. And they will only get better. Right now at this moment, CUSA got the better of deal with UTEP/TCU. And right now, CUSA needed it.