Not sure independent is the way to go here. Check out NIU attendance numbers when independent from 1986 - 1992. Some nice numbers but too many games just over 5,000 or just over 10,000.

the travel costs for all the non revenue sports would never fit in the NIU athletics budget...a pipe dream--give it up or give up the pipe--or pass the pipe

If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

(02-21-2018 03:33 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

+1
We started in the college division back in the day. We can still play the big guys for $ and then settle back and play SDS for the championship every year and whip those bozos from normal every year.

GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(02-21-2018 07:10 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 03:33 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

Here is the average football attendance across the Illinois FCS programs last season.

EIU: 4,950
WIU: 3,476
SIU: 6,761
ISU, 11,440

Even if you put the bias for dropping down divisions aside, why would anyone want to see a schedule full of those teams every year. That does not seem like much of a draw at all. Also, once you factor in the drop off in recruiting from moving down, NIU’s program would completely tank from where it is today. I would cancel my season tickets immediately if NIU went FCS and I suspect many others would too. I agree that the MAC is not the answer but going FCS is a ridiculous idea.

So what's the solution? Going to a conference that won't accept us or there is no opening?

We are stuck in the MAC if we stay FBS. And EMU, Ball State, and most other MAC schools are no draw either. As long as we can get a pass on the minimum attendance requirement and give up the ridiculous idea of stadium expansion, we are okay where we are. But I contend that playing the state schools will have more of a draw than the MAC schools.

If we stay in the MAC and go back to Saturday games, I'm happy. But that won't happen because ESPN won't let it happen.

We already have an eroded fan base and attendance that about puts us at the FCS level. Plus, with STF preaching a sub P5 level with playoffs (like the FCS), who knows what will happen?

Pretty please with sugar on top, quit bitching about the midweek games...it's reality for now.

(02-21-2018 03:13 PM)cagy cager Wrote:  the travel costs for all the non revenue sports would never fit in the NIU athletics budget...a pipe dream--give it up or give up the pipe--or pass the pipe

The non-revenue sports could join a local conference so that isn't an issue.

Also NIU FB could schedule games with WMU/Toledo/Ball St for their OOC schedule to keep some away games close for fans to travel.


Really Im not sure any of this is the answer as attendance is an issue around all college sports.

(02-21-2018 03:33 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

Slap in the face as well as horrible concept.

Work on improving attendance like the other 87% of the FBS programs that are down right now.

Work on undoing the damage that our own state politicians have done to us like every other Illinois university/college.

Move forward and improve the stadium when/where able.

Enjoy not sucking eggs like U of I, and having a realistic annual shot a bowl game.

Put off giving up alcohol for another decade or so.

(02-22-2018 11:27 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 03:33 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

Slap in the face as well as horrible concept.

Work on improving attendance like the other 87% of the FBS programs that are down right now.

Work on undoing the damage that our own state politicians have done to us like very other Illinois university/college.

Move forward and improve the stadium when/where able.

Enjoy not sucking eggs like U of I, and having a realistic annual shot a bowl game.

Put off giving up alcohol for another decade or so.

+1

[quote='Policiious' pid='15094595' dateline='1519240384']
1) Fans will grow tired of NM ST & Liberty: NM St won thier bowl game this year they are no longer a joke. Liberty has $hit tons of $ behind them which will get them off the ground quickly from a talent perspective. BYU will bring out more fans than any MAC program, Army would draw a good crowd as well.

2) Independence with 4-5 weekend home games a year plus playing 4-5 P5 teams every year vs being in the MAC with no more than 4 weekend home games a year and several seasons with 3. In last 10 years NIU MAC road games 29 wkend 11 Midweek, MAC home games 24 wkend 16 midweek. As long as NIU keeps hosting the IHSA Championships, that weekend is out for home games and it;s a great move for NIU for recruiting but it means giving the conference all the excuse they need to give NIU as few wkend home games as possible

3) As far as the possibility of not bowling, there are 35 bowl games now which is more than there were 10 years ago; bowls have had to take teams with losing records in past seasons because not enough teams were even 6-6. But a great way to ease any sting of not getting chosen would be to schedule an end of the season road game at Hawaii on a regular basis. Most bowl games are midweek and are either a long distance or in Detroit. Would think a weekend game in Hawaii (who always has scheduling challenges) would be an attractive alternative. Would bet the Rainbows would pay a decent $ for opponents to play them. They have open dates beginning in 2021.

This program deserves alot more from the MAC than it is getting and there are 10 more years to this TV contract deal which means 10 more years of possibly having only 3 weekend home games a year which will not only kill the fanbase but entomb it in concrete.

Surely playing 4-5 P5 programs plus a Hawaii game annually will be enough $ to support all of the sports programs certainly more than what NIU is getting from the conference tv deal.
[/quote

Thanks for posting my thoughts on going independent. Back in the '80's when we went independent, NIU was an unknown. Not so much now. NIU has a national reputation of being a very good, if not top level mid-major. Times have changed. This might be time to do it.

I blame the MAC for the schedule. I believe staff does what they can to get a favorable schedule but it's not their decision. 3 Saturday games, 3 short week games (Akron on 5 days after coming back from BYU, cmon). They could have given us a bye in early November before Toledo and given us a home or away Saturday game on the bye week. Or any other variation.

I do have some observations for this schedule. Of course we have to play Iowa first and can't look ahead but...An early MAC game vs CMU is exciting but a dangerous game. Coming off playing Utah and then at Florida State can be a trap. CMU owning us doesn't help either.
Miami late season game is a trap too. Toledo before and WMU after will be tough. Two road games after FSU is going to be tough. EMU will be ready for us.

Toughest schedule I've ever seen for us. Excited about the season but it will be very difficult.

its designed to be a disaster........4-8 is my preseason guess.

(02-21-2018 03:33 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we were to go down to FCS, we could join one of the regional FCS conferences and have an immediate rivalry with the in-state and regional FCS schools. Travel costs would be minimal, attendance may increase with the heated rivalries, we wouldn't have to worry about stadium size, and most or all games would be on Saturdays. Most of you are against this because it would be like a slap in the face, and I understand this and agree with it. But, for the reasons stated, I would not be so against the drop to FCS and would still support the team. For sure, I'd be able to attend more games.

It might be more fun to be a bigger player in FCS than continuing to occupy the lowest rung on the FBS ladder.

I prefer FBS but I agree that the MAC is the only FBS conference that is a good match for us. And the MAC has settled for far too many weekday games.

(02-23-2018 12:01 AM)NIU70 Wrote:  [quote='Policiious' pid='15094595' dateline='1519240384']
1) Fans will grow tired of NM ST & Liberty: NM St won thier bowl game this year they are no longer a joke. Liberty has $hit tons of $ behind them which will get them off the ground quickly from a talent perspective. BYU will bring out more fans than any MAC program, Army would draw a good crowd as well.

2) Independence with 4-5 weekend home games a year plus playing 4-5 P5 teams every year vs being in the MAC with no more than 4 weekend home games a year and several seasons with 3. In last 10 years NIU MAC road games 29 wkend 11 Midweek, MAC home games 24 wkend 16 midweek. As long as NIU keeps hosting the IHSA Championships, that weekend is out for home games and it;s a great move for NIU for recruiting but it means giving the conference all the excuse they need to give NIU as few wkend home games as possible

3) As far as the possibility of not bowling, there are 35 bowl games now which is more than there were 10 years ago; bowls have had to take teams with losing records in past seasons because not enough teams were even 6-6. But a great way to ease any sting of not getting chosen would be to schedule an end of the season road game at Hawaii on a regular basis. Most bowl games are midweek and are either a long distance or in Detroit. Would think a weekend game in Hawaii (who always has scheduling challenges) would be an attractive alternative. Would bet the Rainbows would pay a decent $ for opponents to play them. They have open dates beginning in 2021.

This program deserves alot more from the MAC than it is getting and there are 10 more years to this TV contract deal which means 10 more years of possibly having only 3 weekend home games a year which will not only kill the fanbase but entomb it in concrete.

Surely playing 4-5 P5 programs plus a Hawaii game annually will be enough $ to support all of the sports programs certainly more than what NIU is getting from the conference tv deal.
[/quote

Thanks for posting my thoughts on going independent. Back in the '80's when we went independent, NIU was an unknown. Not so much now. NIU has a national reputation of being a very good, if not top level mid-major. Times have changed. This might be time to do it.

My ideas are an alternative not the only alternative. There are 6 independents now and yes NIU has a higher profile than when it was Independent before. Attendance last season dropped to less than ISU (yep they played 5 vs 6 but please NIU dropping to a per game avg below an instate FCS team) and the Division 2 national leader (Grand Valley State). That signals that something must be done.

Not trying to anger anyone but if you want Saturday football back and the better attendance that should come with it and also free up at least 1 more date a year to play a P5 opponent that will bring in more $ for the athletic program than this is a way to get that done. Of course this is predicated on NIU getting accepted into a conference like the Horizon for Hoops plus Olympic sports to keep those costs reasonable.

Policiious, no disrespect, but please stop with your "alternative" a.k.a., disaster scheduling concept.

No. 1, there is not a growing number of Independent teams.

No. 2, aside from BYU, none of the teams you suggest are any more desirable opponents than the top of the MAC. Do you honestly think people would be more interested in Liberty or New Mexico State than facing WMU or CMU?

No. 3, when you suggest "Independent" opponents can take the place of the MAC conference schedule what exactly does NIU gain? In essence you're proposing a conference of Independents based on the false notion those other schools would want such an arrangement.

No. 4, having the entire athletic program under one conference is the ideal for a number of reasons and it's why the only time you find schools in multiple conferences is because of the necessity for the other sports to have an avenue to NCAA qualification. HuskieJohn, name "a local conference" that's going to want all the other NIU sports.

No. 5, when you say several P5 teams are a closer distance than MAC opponents....SO WHAT! Those schools you mentioned have no desire to come to DeKalb and what makes you think they necessarily want to host NIU when you think it would fit? It's wonderful you label them a good foe for NIU, but that doesn't make it so. Does it occur to you that one of the reasons some of those schools found scheduling the Huskies to be an attractive / acceptable opponent was because of NIU's name recognition from having been successful in the MAC?

No. 6, good, bad or indifferent, the MAC has a number of bowl tie-ins, leave the MAC to be an independent and bowl opportunities exist only IF you have a phenomenal year. We were independent in football at one point and it got us nowhere! Learn from past mistakes, don't repeat them.

No. 7, a Hawaii game annually? The excessive costs in playing at Hawaii is why you don't see schools jumping at the chance to play there. Even if they were willing to come to DeKalb, what the hell makes Hawaii an attractive opponent to NIU fans? They don't bring babes in grass skirts with coconut bras shaking their hips.

No. 8, week-by-week scheduling simply proves how naive and uninformed you are on how scheduling works: it's a two-way street. You cannot operate on a basis of what you think would be workable for NIU and never consider the flip side of the equation. IF you're at BYU, et. al, what makes you think they want to play home-and-away with us?

No. 9, how much are you willing to bet because LIberty's "road game" at VA is not a winnable game; New Mexico State at Minnesota is not a winnable game. The reason UMass's fifth home game is Homecoming is because they want a win and Liberty is the opponent. Seriously are you clueless on why some schools have Homecoming either late or early in their schedule?

No. 10, everybody -- especially Policiious -- please stop and consider word for word what Lord Stanely posted in the "get out of the MAC" thread:
Schedules, W/L, attendance, revenue, location, TVs, number of NFL picks: all irrelevant if no one else wants ya.

(02-24-2018 07:03 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  Policiious, no disrespect, but please stop with your "alternative" a.k.a., disaster scheduling concept.

No. 1, there is not a growing number of Independent teams.

No. 2, aside from BYU, none of the teams you suggest are any more desirable opponents than the top of the MAC. Do you honestly think people would be more interested in Liberty or New Mexico State than facing WMU or CMU?

No. 3, when you suggest "Independent" opponents can take the place of the MAC conference schedule what exactly does NIU gain? In essence you're proposing a conference of Independents based on the false notion those other schools would want such an arrangement.

No. 4, having the entire athletic program under one conference is the ideal for a number of reasons and it's why the only time you find schools in multiple conferences is because of the necessity for the other sports to have an avenue to NCAA qualification. HuskieJohn, name "a local conference" that's going to want all the other NIU sports.

No. 5, when you say several P5 teams are a closer distance than MAC opponents....SO WHAT! Those schools you mentioned have no desire to come to DeKalb and what makes you think they necessarily want to host NIU when you think it would fit? It's wonderful you label them a good foe for NIU, but that doesn't make it so. Does it occur to you that one of the reasons some of those schools found scheduling the Huskies to be an attractive / acceptable opponent was because of NIU's name recognition from having been successful in the MAC?

No. 6, good, bad or indifferent, the MAC has a number of bowl tie-ins, leave the MAC to be an independent and bowl opportunities exist only IF you have a phenomenal year. We were independent in football at one point and it got us nowhere! Learn from past mistakes, don't repeat them.

No. 7, a Hawaii game annually? The excessive costs in playing at Hawaii is why you don't see schools jumping at the chance to play there. Even if they were willing to come to DeKalb, what the hell makes Hawaii an attractive opponent to NIU fans? They don't bring babes in grass skirts with coconut bras shaking their hips.

No. 8, week-by-week scheduling simply proves how naive and uninformed you are on how scheduling works: it's a two-way street. You cannot operate on a basis of what you think would be workable for NIU and never consider the flip side of the equation. IF you're at BYU, et. al, what makes you think they want to play home-and-away with us?

No. 9, how much are you willing to bet because LIberty's "road game" at VA is not a winnable game; New Mexico State at Minnesota is not a winnable game. The reason UMass's fifth home game is Homecoming is because they want a win and Liberty is the opponent. Seriously are you clueless on why some schools have Homecoming either late or early in their schedule?

No. 10, everybody -- especially Policiious -- please stop and consider word for word what Lord Stanely posted in the "get out of the MAC" thread:
Schedules, W/L, attendance, revenue, location, TVs, number of NFL picks: all irrelevant if no one else wants ya.

+ 1

The going independent talk is just silly.

Good points. Those wishing for NIU going independent on football. Watch what you wish for. Be prepared to see a good dose of MAC opponents still for even more meaningless games.