Leaving aside personal opinions about if / when Coach Smith should be replaced - I have no interest in another pro-Tubby vs anti-Tubby debate - when does his contract situation become a problem for the program? It has often been stated that you extend a coach so that recruits feel a sense of security and stability, and that the program itself can move forward with future en devours with some idea of stability. Next year will be year 3 of a 5 year contract. I am assuming that Coach Smith will not get an extension after this season, and I am assuming that he will not get fired after this season. Will having a coach basically working out his contract begin to hurt the program? And, how long can the university basically stay on the fence with regards to how the rebuild is progressing. Eventually they will have to offer an extension or part ways, and you would think that that cannot just be when the contract expires.

No extension would be the best option-----then local recruits could see the light at the end of the tunnel. They could tell themselves ...hey if we sign we will get a new coach in a couple years LOL.

It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

Recruiting is already rock bottom bad. Attendance likewise. Tubby's first act as our coach was to take a vacation. His second was to hire his son. His third act was to tell fans they need to lower their expectations.

No they don't have to offer an extension.

Good question

To answer your question, IMO, the lame duck status starts becoming an issue after year 3. Becomes a very big issue after year 4.

(01-26-2018 03:22 PM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Recruiting is already rock bottom bad. Attendance likewise. Tubby's first act as our coach was to take a vacation. His second was to hire his son. His third act was to tell fans they need to lower their expectations.

No they don't have to offer an extension.

Unless Coach Hard Headed makes major changes in his staff or in his ways --- its 5 years here at its worst-- the fans won't have to worry about Tubby anymore.

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

What are the excuses he's using now? Why change?

(01-26-2018 04:50 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

What are the excuses he's using now? Why change?

He has none right now... At least none that are legitimate

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

And he would be fired after the 4th year then I'd wager.

We're two years away from a fix at least, either

A. Tubby gets recruiting elite players to match his admittedly solid coaching and wins.
B. Tubby keeps recruiting below the program standards and is shown the door.

Probably not next year I think (either way), but after year 4, I think this will be resolved. One way or the other.

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

He should already be negotiating a reasonable buyout. The longer this takes, the more damage for all involved.

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

Unless Tubby replaces his 'recruiters' he should be replaced. Other than Martin, the team we have now is a solid bench team. With no real improvement on the horizon. We haven't signed or are close on any players who will change the direction of the program. Option A allows the payment over several years. It's not 1 payment of $6 million. Fire him at the end of the season. We could get a great coach and still pay a prorated amount to Tubby for what we are paying for Tubby now.

(01-28-2018 02:02 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

He should already be negotiating a reasonable buyout. The longer this takes, the more damage for all involved.

The buyout was negotiated when he was hired , it is 100 % written in ink.


If fired for poor performance Tubby will be paid 100% of his remainder salary, the Unversithly has the option to extend it out to a longer term by paying 1/2 his salary for twice the time left.

(01-26-2018 03:33 PM)Tigx Wrote:  To answer your question, IMO, the lame duck status starts becoming an issue after year 3. Becomes a very big issue after year 4.

I think this is about right, the entire I need to have four years left on the contract to recruit is a product of weak willed athletic director’s going against clever agents, it is nonsense.

(01-28-2018 02:18 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(01-28-2018 02:02 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

He should already be negotiating a reasonable buyout. The longer this takes, the more damage for all involved.

The buyout was negotiated when he was hired , it is 100 % written in ink.


If fired for poor performance Tubby will be paid 100% of his remainder salary, the Unversithly has the option to extend it out to a longer term by paying 1/2 his salary for twice the time left.

There is no buyout. We owe him the full contract value. The only leverage Memphis has is to force him to honor the contract if it gets really bad. Tubby might at that point to negative a settlement.

You are right though, none of that is likely to happen.

(01-26-2018 07:16 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

And he would be fired after the 4th year then I'd wager.

We're two years away from a fix at least, either

A. Tubby gets recruiting elite players to match his admittedly solid coaching and wins.
B. Tubby keeps recruiting below the program standards and is shown the door.

Probably not next year I think (either way), but after year 4, I think this will be resolved. One way or the other.

It's a myth that tubby can coach. He is a terrible coach. He coaches a terrible style. His problem is not recruiting, well it is a side problem due to the fact that he can't coach.

Games with point total in the 40's? He had those games at UK with some of the best players in the country.

We almost got beat at home by the Jackrabbits when we had the number 1 recruiting class in the country.

tubby hasn't had a winning record in any conference since he left UK. That ain't about the players. That's coaching, or lack thereof.

Look at TT without tubby now. What players did they add?

Then you will have the annual lie about playing faster. Y'all already tired of that one? Try it for 10 years.

Something else about the supposed coaching of tubby, do y'all know that tubby has not beaten a team seeded higher than a 4 since the 1998 title team at UK. That was an inherited team that had been to 2 consecutive title games. For 20 years now a tubby coached team has not beaten a team in the NCAA tourney seeded higher than a 4.

Look it up if you don't believe.

(01-28-2018 02:48 PM)BJD Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 07:16 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

And he would be fired after the 4th year then I'd wager.

We're two years away from a fix at least, either

A. Tubby gets recruiting elite players to match his admittedly solid coaching and wins.
B. Tubby keeps recruiting below the program standards and is shown the door.

Probably not next year I think (either way), but after year 4, I think this will be resolved. One way or the other.

It's a myth that tubby can coach. He is a terrible coach. He coaches a terrible style. His problem is not recruiting, well it is a side problem due to the fact that he can't coach.

Games with point total in the 40's? He had those games at UK with some of the best players in the country.

We almost got beat at home by the Jackrabbits when we had the number 1 recruiting class in the country.

tubby hasn't had a winning record in any conference since he left UK. That ain't about the players. That's coaching, or lack thereof.

Look at TT without tubby now. What players did they add?

Then you will have the annual lie about playing faster. Y'all already tired of that one? Try it for 10 years.

I have tried telling people this.

He can't coach.

That's where it starts and stops.

It's gonna get a lot worse.

(01-28-2018 03:25 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(01-28-2018 02:48 PM)BJD Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 07:16 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 04:30 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 03:14 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's an interesting question, but since he's on a 5 year contract, we're kind of screwed on the 'lame duck' question.

Unless we get better results in year 3 (next year), I assume the options are:

A. Fire him (eat $6m)
B. Give him year 4, and if it holds fire him (eat $3m)

I can't imagine he sees year 5 if the current situation is where we are.

If you don't extend him after next year he has excuse as to why he cant recruit...

And he would be fired after the 4th year then I'd wager.

We're two years away from a fix at least, either

A. Tubby gets recruiting elite players to match his admittedly solid coaching and wins.
B. Tubby keeps recruiting below the program standards and is shown the door.

Probably not next year I think (either way), but after year 4, I think this will be resolved. One way or the other.

It's a myth that tubby can coach. He is a terrible coach. He coaches a terrible style. His problem is not recruiting, well it is a side problem due to the fact that he can't coach.

Games with point total in the 40's? He had those games at UK with some of the best players in the country.

We almost got beat at home by the Jackrabbits when we had the number 1 recruiting class in the country.

tubby hasn't had a winning record in any conference since he left UK. That ain't about the players. That's coaching, or lack thereof.

Look at TT without tubby now. What players did they add?

Then you will have the annual lie about playing faster. Y'all already tired of that one? Try it for 10 years.

I have tried telling people this.

He can't coach.

That's where it starts and stops.

It's gonna get a lot worse.

Maybe he can coach in practices but ...all we really know is he can yell.