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The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:16 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  If there is a pathway to citizenship for these illegal aliens I will work against Trump in 2020. This is my line in the sand. Reward criminal behavior and you might as well just stop enforcing all law.

how about legal residency without American citizenship?

I've stated before that I'm fine with that. I've even stated I would be OK with citizenship after a lengthy term of service in the military, like eight years. But blanket citizenship is simply rewarding criminal behavior for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they be required to do what no other citizen has been expected to do for decades.
01-25-2018 05:20 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 05:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  So we pay for the wall and then Mexico reimburses us for it, right?

We pay for the wall by limiting those that spent time in federal prison and the future crime they commit and government money they use.

It cost $31,025 to house a federal prisoner for a year...that cost could have went up or down since I last checked. Then it was $85 a day.

Hell if it stops 20,000 from crossing the border that gets caught and then spends 120 in the system before deported.

20,000 * 85= $1,700,000 *120 = $204,000,000
do that for 5 years and you save $1,020,000,000

I guess that 20,000 would be closer to 60,000 that the wall stops and will continue to stop even when you have a President that is soft on illegal immigrant.

I think with in 5 years it pays for itself in limiting the amount of crime (dollar cost) cause by Illegal Immigrant

So yes...Mexicans are paying for it

If we do that, are we going to increase the number of people that can come here legally? We're trending towards not having enough people working to pay for all the benefits for the growing number of retirees.

Also, we will have to pay more for some services, from jobs that the illegals would have done.

Slavery would make things real cheap. Importing 3rd world kids to work for a dime an hour would make things cheap too. The idea that we might have to pay the "real cost" of things is not a good reason to open the floodgates for cheap exploitable unskilled laborers.

Yeah, your tomatoes might cost more. Big deal. Maybe tomato producers would innovate, automate, or find more efficient methods, to reduce costs instead of exploiting cheap illegal labor.

The idea that we need more people to prop up our ponzi scheme benefit system is also not a valid reason. How about making your benefit system into a non-ponzi scheme instead?


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01-25-2018 05:25 PM
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UTSAMarineVet09 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 05:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:16 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  If there is a pathway to citizenship for these illegal aliens I will work against Trump in 2020. This is my line in the sand. Reward criminal behavior and you might as well just stop enforcing all law.

how about legal residency without American citizenship?

I've stated before that I'm fine with that. I've even stated I would be OK with citizenship after a lengthy term of service in the military, like eight years. But blanket citizenship is simply rewarding criminal behavior for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they be required to do what no other citizen has been expected to do for decades.

because they are not citizens... duh! 07-coffee3
01-25-2018 05:31 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #64
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 05:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  So we pay for the wall and then Mexico reimburses us for it, right?

We pay for the wall by limiting those that spent time in federal prison and the future crime they commit and government money they use.

It cost $31,025 to house a federal prisoner for a year...that cost could have went up or down since I last checked. Then it was $85 a day.

Hell if it stops 20,000 from crossing the border that gets caught and then spends 120 in the system before deported.

20,000 * 85= $1,700,000 *120 = $204,000,000
do that for 5 years and you save $1,020,000,000

I guess that 20,000 would be closer to 60,000 that the wall stops and will continue to stop even when you have a President that is soft on illegal immigrant.

I think with in 5 years it pays for itself in limiting the amount of crime (dollar cost) cause by Illegal Immigrant

So yes...Mexicans are paying for it

If we do that, are we going to increase the number of people that can come here legally? We're trending towards not having enough people working to pay for all the benefits for the growing number of retirees.

Also, we will have to pay more for some services, from jobs that the illegals would have done.

that's b/c ZERO's policy allowed more to camp on the porch......

or was ECO-099 not part of your remedial training (rhetorical)
01-25-2018 06:45 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 05:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:16 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  If there is a pathway to citizenship for these illegal aliens I will work against Trump in 2020. This is my line in the sand. Reward criminal behavior and you might as well just stop enforcing all law.

how about legal residency without American citizenship?

I've stated before that I'm fine with that. I've even stated I would be OK with citizenship after a lengthy term of service in the military, like eight years. But blanket citizenship is simply rewarding criminal behavior for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they be required to do what no other citizen has been expected to do for decades.

I think they should have a higher burden than a person that didnt enter the county illegally. Eight years is too much IMHO. I have no trouble with 2 years of public service (wouldnt have to necessarily be the military---could be the Peace Corp or maybe even something like Habitat for Humanity or working in a VA hospital). If they dont want to be a citizen they dont have to in order to stay--but I'd like to see a real investment in the nation. I think an opportunity to work as group with other Americans in a way that aids in the sense of becoming "American" as a requirement to attain citizenship is not a bad idea.

Frankly, while it would have made me mad to do it in my youth--I really think we should have some sort of public service requirement for everyone. We have become too divided--everyone we disagree with is a nazi or communist. Requiring every young adult to do some sort of public service would require every single individual to work together toward a goal---standing shoulder to shoulder working with all sorts of people they might never meet otherwise. More importantly, it would give every American the opportunity to have a shared commonality with every other American--which frankly is the basis for successful national unity.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2018 10:25 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-25-2018 06:59 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #66
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 06:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think they should have a higher burden than a person that didnt enter the county illegally. Eight years is too much IMHO. I have no trouble with 2 years of public service (wouldnt have to necessarily be the military---could be the Peace Corp or maybe even something like Habitat for Humanity or working in a VA hospital). If they dont want to be a citizen they dont have to in order to stay--but I'd like to see a real investment in the nation. I think an opportunity to work as group with other Americans in a way that aids in the sense of becoming "American" as a requirement to attain citizenship is not a bad idea.

Agree.

Quote:
Frankly, while it would have mad me mad to do it in my youth--I really think we should have some sort of requirement for everyone. We hve become too divided and too willing to believe the worst in everyone. Requiring every young adult to do some sort of public service would require every single individual to work with and stand shoulder to shoulder with all sorts of people they might never meet otherwise. More importantly, it would give every American the opportunity to have a shared commonality with every other American--which frankly is the basis for successful national unity.

Agree here, too, although this cuts against my libertarian instincts.

The greatest generation fought the depression together and then fought WWII together. Then they came home and built a prosperous and diversified economy with opportunity for everyone, and took on the question of civil rights directly, made great progress, and put us on the right path there. Nothing wrong with a lot more of that camaraderie. Particularly now, we need it more than ever. Put every potential skinhead klansman in a position whee a black or brown person saves his life, and see if that doesn't change some attitudes. Obviously that won't happen to every one of them, but I'm betting it will happen to enough to make a difference. I know I saw it happen a few times in my navy time.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2018 07:55 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-25-2018 07:52 PM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #67
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
Sounds like his plan is pissing everyone off. The Dems don't want to give him anything and the GOP thinks he's crazy for offering a path to citizenship to Dreamers. Let's see how it plays out.
01-25-2018 08:31 PM
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Post: #68
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 01:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This would be my objective.

Immunity from deportation for Dreamers and other illegals, under some sort of permanent resident alien or guest worker status, but no patch to citizenship except anybody who serves in the military and obtains an honorable discharge can become a citizen (I still don't know why that part isn't the law already).

Merit based immigration, with an end to the lottery and an end to, or severe restrictions on, family chain immigration.

Full and complete background checks on everyone we let in.

Strengthened border security, but not necessarily a wall (I would give on the wall to get the other points).

I'm inclined to agree with that. The history is that giving citizenship leads to more illegal immigration. But permanent residence is fine.
01-25-2018 09:00 PM
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Post: #69
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 03:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Something can be paid for through different methods. When you pay for a certain something the company selling/producing the something has your money and uses it to further his company, be it through growth. For instance, if we get out of NAFTA how much money will we gain by having fair business deals? Capiche.

Mexico pays for it because without all the illegals, wages and taxes collected go up here and money sent to Mexico goes down.
01-25-2018 09:01 PM
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Post: #70
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 04:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:23 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:16 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  If there is a pathway to citizenship for these illegal aliens I will work against Trump in 2020. This is my line in the sand. Reward criminal behavior and you might as well just stop enforcing all law.

how about legal residency without American citizenship?

I've stated before that I'm fine with that. I've even stated I would be OK with citizenship after a lengthy term of service in the military, like eight years. But blanket citizenship is simply rewarding criminal behavior for absolutely no good reason.

Must keep eye on the ball. With wall, more agents, technology, end chain migration, end lottery, etc...this problem is gone forever.

The wall is the only part of the deal that will survive the next dim administration. It doesn't matter how many agents or what technology you have when the administration refuses to enforce the laws on the books as we saw the last eight years.

Good point.
01-25-2018 09:02 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #71
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 05:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:16 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 04:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  If there is a pathway to citizenship for these illegal aliens I will work against Trump in 2020. This is my line in the sand. Reward criminal behavior and you might as well just stop enforcing all law.

how about legal residency without American citizenship?

I've stated before that I'm fine with that. I've even stated I would be OK with citizenship after a lengthy term of service in the military, like eight years. But blanket citizenship is simply rewarding criminal behavior for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they be required to do what no other citizen has been expected to do for decades.

Ill let you noodle on this question for awhile before giving you the answer.
01-25-2018 09:08 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
Bwahahah!

I love it when they answer their own silliness and don't even know it.
01-25-2018 09:09 PM
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Claw Offline
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Post: #73
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
That crazy bastard is going to end up being THE MAN who legalizes all these illegal immigrants. And when it happens, he is going to be the Pied Piper leading the whole damn bunch to the Republican Party. He will have delivered in months what the Democrats could not do in decades.

And believe me, he'll tell them. And you know what, they'll believe him - because it will be true.
01-25-2018 10:37 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #74
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-25-2018 10:37 PM)Claw Wrote:  That crazy bastard is going to end up being THE MAN who legalizes all these illegal immigrants. And when it happens, he is going to be the Pied Piper leading the whole damn bunch to the Republican Party. He will have delivered in months what the Democrats could not do in decades.

And believe me, he'll tell them. And you know what, they'll believe him - because it will be true.

there's a big difference between batshite crazy and crazy like a fox, eh.... 03-wink
01-25-2018 10:53 PM
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usmbacker Offline
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Post: #75
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
Trump has done more positives for America in one year than our former President did in 8. Yet you libs worship Barry like he was our country's savior. If anyone's crazy it is the libs in this country.
01-26-2018 02:11 AM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #76
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
I'm extremely hesitant without knowing exactly what that 'pathway to citizenship' looks like, but if it can effectively weed out those that need to be deported (gang affiliation, other criminal activities, etc) and get the wall funded and built in a very short time-frame, it might be the right deal. Republicans are in the position to actually get the wall built, with democrat support instead of empty promises of future talks about a wall or border security.

Gotta start somewhere.
01-26-2018 08:27 AM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
(01-26-2018 08:27 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm extremely hesitant without knowing exactly what that 'pathway to citizenship' looks like, but if it can effectively weed out those that need to be deported (gang affiliation, other criminal activities, etc) and get the wall funded and built in a very short time-frame, it might be the right deal. Republicans are in the position to actually get the wall built, with democrat support instead of empty promises of future talks about a wall or border security.

Gotta start somewhere.

I think there's still some horse trading that's gonna happen. It'll go back and forth and Schumer will leave with what's originally proposed or nothing and it'll be spun.
01-26-2018 08:32 AM
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Post: #78
RE: The crazy bastard threaded the needle.
And yet, the democrats and immigration groups are lambasting this as a nod to white supremacy somehow? Your side is surely in danger of bottoming out at some point.
01-26-2018 09:15 AM
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