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G5 has no regrets
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #1
G5 has no regrets
I keep hearing about how much of a money drain it is to play in the G5.

I can't come up with an instance of all of the schools who have made the FCS to FBS migration the last decade where there is a regret about making the move.

App State for example much rather conference with the likes of Georgia St, AState and Troy than road conference games in a 7500 seat stadium. Its well worth the geography stretch to play bigger schools.

G5 has no regrets.
01-22-2018 12:07 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #2
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 12:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I keep hearing about how much of a money drain it is to play in the G5.

I can't come up with an instance of all of the schools who have made the FCS to FBS migration the last decade where there is a regret about making the move.

App State for example much rather conference with the likes of Georgia St, AState and Troy than road conference games in a 7500 seat stadium. Its well worth the geography stretch to play bigger schools.

G5 has no regrets.c

I think you mistake my point. It isn't that the decision to play FBS rather than FCS that schools need to seriously look at....its the decision to play football at all. There are FCS teams that have larger deficits than any G5 school, and many FCS programs have higher per student per year subsidies than G5 schools.

From a practical perspective, for a school to move down or drop football, they big wigs at the college will have to admit that spending all that money was a mistake in the first place. Kind of hard to justify if you spent tens of millions of dollars on facilities in the last decade or so.


----

And don't think that the P5 schools are exempt from football induced financial woes...Some could get caught up in it. But if the new TV deals suck for the P5 teams, their teams could be facing financial problems. I wouldn't celebrate too quickly as a G5. This might result in lower payday revenue, lower CFP payouts to G5 teams etc.

---

We're probably a 5 or 6 years in front of a crisis. Here's what a school should be doing

1) Trying to really ramp up athletic giving, but not at the expense of academic giving
2) Really focusing on costs
3) Trying to really make an effort to make that investment valuable to all students (and not just traditional students)
4) Working to make your program more cost effective
5) Not needlessly angering stakeholders with boneheaded decisions (like hiring Baylor assistants for example).
6) And while your doing all that....you'll need to be putting a credible product on the field.

There will come a time when it might not be the College President starting a movement to shut football down...but it might come from the students.

----

Its not the students that are upset about the prospect of playing Elon or Kennesaw rather than Louisiana Tech or Arkansas State that you need to be concerned about. They are interested in football. Its the students that don't care who you're playing because they couldn't care less about football period. Those are the ones you need to engage.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2018 12:37 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-22-2018 12:21 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #3
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 12:21 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-22-2018 12:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I keep hearing about how much of a money drain it is to play in the G5.

I can't come up with an instance of all of the schools who have made the FCS to FBS migration the last decade where there is a regret about making the move.

App State for example much rather conference with the likes of Georgia St, AState and Troy than road conference games in a 7500 seat stadium. Its well worth the geography stretch to play bigger schools.

G5 has no regrets.

I think you mistake my point. It isn't that the decision to play FBS rather than FCS that schools need to seriously look at....its the decision to play football at all. There are FCS teams that have larger deficits than any G5 school, and many FCS programs have higher per student per year subsidies than G5 schools.

The number one determining factor on whether a school is playing football or not is if it has a stadium. If it has the stadium to play in its playing football.

Football is central to student life. Homecoming wouldn't be the same without football ect. Alumni aren't coming back to campus without a football game.

student fees aren't really that large at the mid major FB schools....most are 300-400 per student for sports with football about 1/3rd of that. It doesn't compare to the rapid increases in tuition and special fees for professional majors tacked on.

Its more when a 50 million dollar stadium investment is required to stay in the game when schools decide whether or not to pull the plug. That is more than what the mid major FB schools are willing to chew off for a non-essential expenditure.
01-22-2018 12:35 AM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #4
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 12:35 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The number one determining factor on whether a school is playing football or not is if it has a stadium. If it has the stadium to play in its playing football.

What about Wichita State?

No I'm not serious. You're right, infrastructure is a big deterrent to divestment
01-22-2018 12:51 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #5
RE: G5 has no regrets
WSU had a dump so they scrapped.

UAB was about to do the same until community outcry.
01-22-2018 01:01 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #6
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 01:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  WSU had a dump so they scrapped.

UAB was about to do the same until community outcry.

The UAB situation was about more than football. It was about institutional control.
01-22-2018 01:03 AM
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Shox Offline
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Post: #7
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 01:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-22-2018 01:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  WSU had a dump so they scrapped.

UAB was about to do the same until community outcry.

The UAB situation was about more than football. It was about institutional control.

For the record, that is exactly what happened at WSU as well.
01-22-2018 07:40 AM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #8
RE: G5 has no regrets
Almost everyone who plays in the Sun Belt and CUSA moved up from the FCS and I don’t think a single school except for Idaho obviously would entertain going back.

From a Georgia Southern perspective, we only entered the FBS a few years ago, but our athletic budget has doubled, we’ve added almost 10k seats to our stadium and fill it regularly, and we get more national recognition now than we did even when playing FCS National Championship games.

However, we didn’t move up for that. We moved up to be in the same subdivision as our peer schools. ECU, App State, MTSU, Troy, Texas State, Southern Miss, etc are all listed as our peer institutions and almost all of them are schools we used to play at the D1-AA level before they moved up. That left us as a large public school with 21k (soon to be 28k) students playing in a subdivision dominated by small private colleges with 4-5k students. It was a no brainer to make the decision to move up with our peer schools and I’m glad we did.
01-22-2018 08:41 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #9
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 08:41 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Almost everyone who plays in the Sun Belt and CUSA moved up from the FCS and I don’t think a single school except for Idaho obviously would entertain going back.

From a Georgia Southern perspective, we only entered the FBS a few years ago, but our athletic budget has doubled, we’ve added almost 10k seats to our stadium and fill it regularly, and we get more national recognition now than we did even when playing FCS National Championship games.

However, we didn’t move up for that. We moved up to be in the same subdivision as our peer schools. ECU, App State, MTSU, Troy, Texas State, Southern Miss, etc are all listed as our peer institutions and almost all of them are schools we used to play at the D1-AA level before they moved up. That left us as a large public school with 21k (soon to be 28k) students playing in a subdivision dominated by small private colleges with 4-5k students. It was a no brainer to make the decision to move up with our peer schools and I’m glad we did.

Umm... ECU is not a peer. We are a 30,000 student school, with a Medical and several doctoral and master programs.

Our Peer institutions
Central Michigan University
East Tennessee State University
FIU
NIU
Ohio University
Old Dominion University
Southern Illinois University - Carbondale
Texas Tech University
University at Buffalo (SUNY)*
University of Louisville*
University of Missouri - Kansas City
University of Nevada - Reno
University of North Dakota
University of South Carolina - Columbia*
University of Southern Mississippi
Virginia Commonwealth University
Western Michigan University
Wright State University - Main Campus
01-22-2018 10:35 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #10
RE: G5 has no regrets
(01-22-2018 08:41 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Almost everyone who plays in the Sun Belt and CUSA moved up from the FCS and I don’t think a single school except for Idaho obviously would entertain going back.

From a Georgia Southern perspective, we only entered the FBS a few years ago, but our athletic budget has doubled, we’ve added almost 10k seats to our stadium and fill it regularly, and we get more national recognition now than we did even when playing FCS National Championship games.

Georgia Southern just moved up to FBS so you guys are still in the Honeymoon Phase, where alumni are excited and donations are pouring in. That's good.

But it's also true that compared to 5 years ago, you guys are soaking the academic side for $10m more a year, subsidies have risen from $7m to $17m in that time, out-stripping even the growing revenue increases from licensing, donations and ticket sales.

In terms of real revenue - meaning revenue actually generated by football, such as donations and ticket sales - you guys are on a growth trajectory right now, and if the growth continues, you will be an FBS success story. But if that stagnates such that the "growth" is just robbing Peter to pay Paul (student fees/transfers), it will be another failure.

We'll see. 07-coffee3
01-22-2018 10:48 AM
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