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Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
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GOMRDS Offline
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Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
Given the downsides to FBS for existing G5 programs (rising costs, irrelevant bowl games, lack of fan support), why don't more schools move to FCS? They would save a ton of money (44 'ships and lower coaches salaries), be more competitive, and would have a chance at a real post-season instead of eating $1M in expenses for a bowl game nobody cares about.

Why don't they do it? And please, surprise me by letting this thread get 10 posts before it goes downhill...
01-12-2018 03:10 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
Their pride is worth too much to them and their fans. They want to believe they're part of the highest level of college football.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 03:20 PM by Potomac.)
01-12-2018 03:18 PM
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Duke Dawg Online
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 03:10 PM)GOMRDS Wrote:  Given the downsides to FBS for existing G5 programs (rising costs, irrelevant bowl games, lack of fan support), why don't more schools move to FCS? They would save a ton of money (44 'ships and lower coaches salaries), be more competitive, and would have a chance at a real post-season instead of eating $1M in expenses for a bowl game nobody cares about.

Why don't they do it? And please, surprise me by letting this thread get 10 posts before it goes downhill...

they might start soon.

2 years ago, G5 conferences were getting $1m a year in TV revenue. That is down 75% and likely going down further in the coming years.

add that to the COA that needs to be paid at FBS level and the finances will kill more programs just like it did Idaho and (almost) UAB.

it's coming. I'd bet money more programs drop down or kill football all together.
01-12-2018 03:19 PM
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DBJMU2006 Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
A lot of schools are anxiously watching the results of Idaho.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-s-over-it
01-12-2018 03:20 PM
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Bisonlurker Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
They don't want to get their asses handed to them by the Dukes or Bison :)
01-12-2018 03:26 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
"University of Idaho president Chuck Staben was home with his family in Boise on New Year’s Day when he got an angry message from an alumnus. “Are you watching the Rose Bowl?” it read. “That’s the sort of experience Idaho had before you made your awful decision.”"

Googles Rose Bowl Game all time results. No appearances by Idaho. Hmm. Go figure.
01-12-2018 03:26 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 03:26 PM)Bisonlurker Wrote:  They don't want to get their asses handed to them by the Dukes or Bison :)

I'd love either of us to schedule a home and home with them and welcome them to FCS when we sweep both games.
01-12-2018 03:28 PM
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Bisonlurker Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
No doubt
01-12-2018 03:30 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 03:20 PM)DBJMU2006 Wrote:  A lot of schools are anxiously watching the results of Idaho.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-s-over-it

He didn't name names but said that many G5 presidents are calling him about the transition. Wow. We may not have to go anywhere and we saved money in the process haha.
01-12-2018 03:35 PM
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JMad03 Online
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
I don't think many do because in a way they are admitting defeat. Plus many people would probably be losing scholarships which is also very unfortunate.
I hope they struggle for a while. It shouldn't be a simple as immediate success moving down from FBS to FCS. It would also show that any FBS could move down and dominate, and that shouldn't be. Also discredits schools like us and NDSU.
01-12-2018 03:50 PM
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DBJMU2006 Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
they have transition years to reduce the scholarships so you wouldn't offer as many scholarships as your previous class graduates. There will be some attrition as well as some kids try to transfer out to other FBS or FCS programs.
01-12-2018 03:52 PM
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94computerguy Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
I wish more would. I think FCS would be greatly improved by having more G5-level teams. There might be more than 3 or 4 powerhouses in FCS and those would be some great games. I'm a stay-FCS guy, but the mover-uppers have a point when they talk about how sad it is to play in front of 3000 people at Maine or whatever.
01-12-2018 03:53 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 03:50 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  I don't think many do because in a way they are admitting defeat. Plus many people would probably be losing scholarships which is also very unfortunate.
I hope they struggle for a while. It shouldn't be a simple as immediate success moving down from FBS to FCS. It would also show that any FBS could move down and dominate, and that shouldn't be. Also discredits schools like us and NDSU.

I think that's what they're actually watching for. Nothing is worse than moving down and then also being humbled by realizing you're not even a top 25 program at the FCS level and can't get into the playoffs.

Idaho is about to be humbled and it'll be a hard pill for what few of their fans remain for the next 4-5 years at minimum.
01-12-2018 03:58 PM
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Wear Purple Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
I encourage folks to think more broadly than just football and instead consider the entire athletic program. That is what the athletic administrators and college presidents are thinking about in a lot of cases.

For instance, let's say Charlotte wakes up in a few years and realizes football just isn't what they thought it would be and they are losing money. If they drop out of CUSA, they likely must take all of their sports with them. They might actually like for their MBB program to stay there. (Just a hypothetical of course...if you don't like Charlotte, insert any other similar university)

Look at the dilemma a bigger G5 in UConn is facing now. It may take another 5-10 years, but their egos are eventually going to realize the ACC is not inviting them in and neither is the Big 12. Their chances of being P5 are the same as everybody else in the G5...zilch. A lot of their fans would love to see UConn move to the Big East and rekindle their hoops rivalries with Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, et al. Do they drop from the G5's biggest and best conference, AAC, to become a full-time member in a league formed for hoops? If so, what do they do with their FB program? Drop to D1AA? Unlikely. Become an independent? Maybe, but risky.

A lot of moving parts and a holistic view should be taken into account. I think it is way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more likely a middle division driven by the NCAA evolves than the G5 ever increasing their worth in D1A football. The P5 will make sure of that and there isn't a thing the G5 or NCAA will do about it. In the meantime, I like what JMU's administration is doing with our facilities to improve as well as putting the money out there for our Head FB Coach, indoor practice facility, etc. When movement eventually takes place from weakened G5 egos and red balance sheets, JMU is and will be well-positioned to make wise choices for our future with regards to our athletic programs.
01-12-2018 04:10 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
There is but one simple reason Idaho could not make it as an FBS team, the WAC's elimination of football as one of their sponsored sports. It's that simple.
01-12-2018 04:34 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
One other thing to consider is a lot of conferences (CAA included) have academic agreements where they share resources, and schools generally like to play in conferences with their 'peer' institutions. On aggregate, P5 conferences have the 'top' schools, followed by G5, followed by FCS, with some obvious exceptions (Ivy, Patriot, and CAA to a degree).

This is where I think the CAA is in a better position than a decent amount of other conferences. It has a good blend of academic institutions, a lot of which are near major metros, which helps for recruiting.

I don't know exactly what direction JMU wants to head in, but I would think it prefers being associated with schools like Delaware, William and Mary, Villanova, Elon, Richmond, CoC, etc more than it would Arkansas State, Louisiana Monroe, South Alabama, etc.

But for the most part, the schools in the Sun Belt are bigger names than say, a Southland Conference school. Louisiana Lafayette might be a step below LSU, but it's a step ahead of Nicholls State or McNeese State. That might hold a school in the Belt from dropping down to the FCS, even if they save money and might become more competitive.

Hope that makes sense.
01-12-2018 05:49 PM
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Wear Purple Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 05:49 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  One other thing to consider is a lot of conferences (CAA included) have academic agreements where they share resources, and schools generally like to play in conferences with their 'peer' institutions. On aggregate, P5 conferences have the 'top' schools, followed by G5, followed by FCS, with some obvious exceptions (Ivy, Patriot, and CAA to a degree).

This is where I think the CAA is in a better position than a decent amount of other conferences. It has a good blend of academic institutions, a lot of which are near major metros, which helps for recruiting.

I don't know exactly what direction JMU wants to head in, but I would think it prefers being associated with schools like Delaware, William and Mary, Villanova, Elon, Richmond, CoC, etc more than it would Arkansas State, Louisiana Monroe, South Alabama, etc.

But for the most part, the schools in the Sun Belt are bigger names than say, a Southland Conference school. Louisiana Lafayette might be a step below LSU, but it's a step ahead of Nicholls State or McNeese State. That might hold a school in the Belt from dropping down to the FCS, even if they save money and might become more competitive.

Hope that makes sense.

Makes sense. Too much sense around here in fact on this subject matter.

04-cheers
01-12-2018 06:39 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 03:53 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  I wish more would. I think FCS would be greatly improved by having more G5-level teams. There might be more than 3 or 4 powerhouses in FCS and those would be some great games. I'm a stay-FCS guy, but the mover-uppers have a point when they talk about how sad it is to play in front of 3000 people at Maine or whatever.

Your last sentence answers the title question. Even if we don't often play in packed stadiums the attendance and atmosphere is still way better than most of FCS. From what I've read on the Sun Belt board Idaho is losing a ton of fans from this move. I know if we moved down it would be a lot harder for me to go to games. I never really followed us when were FCS and I'm not sure if I would if we went back. Hopefully that never happens.
01-12-2018 07:04 PM
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olddawg Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
Not sure what atmosphere we are missing by not being in the Sun Belt. This is why we are not moving. If we are to undertake the process of moving "UP", we'd like to feel like we have actually moved "UP".

JMU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 24,840- FCS schedule
TSU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 17,450- FBS schedule
JMU total attendance for 11 regular season games: 20, 960...playing an FCS schedule
TSU total attendance for 12 regular season games: 19,830....playing an FBS schedule
01-12-2018 08:36 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: Why don't more FBS programs move to FCS?
(01-12-2018 07:04 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:53 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  I wish more would. I think FCS would be greatly improved by having more G5-level teams. There might be more than 3 or 4 powerhouses in FCS and those would be some great games. I'm a stay-FCS guy, but the mover-uppers have a point when they talk about how sad it is to play in front of 3000 people at Maine or whatever.

Your last sentence answers the title question. Even if we don't often play in packed stadiums the attendance and atmosphere is still way better than most of FCS. From what I've read on the Sun Belt board Idaho is losing a ton of fans from this move. I know if we moved down it would be a lot harder for me to go to games. I never really followed us when were FCS and I'm not sure if I would if we went back. Hopefully that never happens.

Not to worry. After Withers runs your program further into the ground it won't really matter.
01-12-2018 09:03 PM
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