(01-11-2018 04:11 PM)ballhog Wrote:  You hit the nail on the head. I don't have a problem with this team. Transfers happen after new coaches come in all the time. This seemed worse than usual, but I knew this year would not be the best.

My biggest problem is I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Next year and the next look like potentially more of the same.

Exactly. When he didn't get, much less appear to TRY to get, some of the local recruits, that was it.

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

A 16 win season in reality is no difference than winning 14. I mean if they are actually saying we’ll keep him if he wins 16 but if he wins 14 he’s gone, that’s messed up if that’s their thinking. They have to know that we are only getting to 16 wins because we’re playing the worst two schools a total of four times.

They must realize that the problem with attendance and recruiting, and probably more than 90% of the fans want him gone won’t go away because we win 16 games. If they don’t fix the problem now it will only get worse.

Tubby was a horrible hire period.. I knew it when it happened.. Anyone that knew what he had done over the past 10 to 15 years should have known that!! Name 1 good program that went after him over the past 15 to 20 years.. There is a reason none of the good programs did.. Of course this is my opinion which doesn’t mean much except to me!!

(01-11-2018 04:55 PM)450bench Wrote:  Maybe Tubby is unhappy here and gets another gig or retires to save his legacy. Who the hell knows.

I agree with this. He has to be unhappy. But actually everyone involved is unhappy.

(01-11-2018 05:35 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

A 16 win season in reality is no difference than winning 14. I mean if they are actually saying we’ll keep him if he wins 16 but if he wins 14 he’s gone, that’s messed up if that’s their thinking. They have to know that we are only getting to 16 wins because we’re playing the worst two schools a total of four times.

They must realize that the problem with attendance and recruiting, and probably more than 90% of the fans want him gone won’t go away because we win 16 games. If they don’t fix the problem now it will only get worse.

I don’t know what “the number” is. I guess people are just saying that if we have an incredibly awful season that they’ll fire Tubby. He dodged a bullet or two when we win a bunch of close games to low end small schools. We could easily be 6-11 vs 11-6.

I predicted 18 wins before the season and 6-9th place in the AAC. It seems to vary, but at this second, we’re playing better than I thought.

I tend to take a longer term view than 99% of the people here. We’re a couple of players from having an NCAA tourney team. I was hoping for player development this year, and we’ve seen some of that. Almost our entire team was a wildcard, and we’ve added a few pretty good players. Davenport has been solid, Parks has played better lately, Brewton, Johnson, and Nickelberry have shown flashes. Martin, as expected, has been phenomenal.

Recruiting isn’t over. A couple of good players and we’ll have a much more competitive team. The following year is a concern, but we rebuilt from a much bigger hole last year after most players were already signed. I’m confident that we could find at least similar players.

Instead of focusing on “what if’s” and the negatives, I’ve really enjoyed this team. No quitters here. They aren’t incredibly talented, but are playing better now. If they fire Tubby, that’s fine with me. If they keep him, he has my full support... Go Tigers!

(01-11-2018 12:12 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  Geoff touched on this yesterday. Clearly there is a disconnect between what majority of the fans want in a basketball coach, and by extension the program.

I get the impression the either...
A.) the administration really did believe Tubby would help ease the concerns and improve the image of Memphis basketball to Big 12 presidents. This actually makes a lot of sense, but it was obviously delusional, given where we actually fell in the pecking order.

B.) the administration is trying to further their own job prospects and staying away from any coach that could potentially recruit well enough to rouse suspicions from the NCAA was top priority no matter the cost. Was there no one cheaper?

C.) this administration is actually so unaware and clueless about basketball that they actually believed Tubby's style/fit would translate well enough to satisfy the expectations of the majority of Memphis fans, which is certainly tied to a historical level of success.

D.) Administration had very little say in the process and our boosters made the decision themselves. Obviously the bigger question then is are the boosters incompetent? If so, we might have a bigger problem...

We were not that far down the pecking order. In fact, I think we were way up there & probably IN, until the B12 tried to put the screws to FedEx for more money & were told to F Off, at which point 12 expansion was dead. The B12 then went thru a cut process to humiliate Memphis for the FedEx F Off, but it was all just a show.

(01-11-2018 05:56 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 05:35 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

A 16 win season in reality is no difference than winning 14. I mean if they are actually saying we’ll keep him if he wins 16 but if he wins 14 he’s gone, that’s messed up if that’s their thinking. They have to know that we are only getting to 16 wins because we’re playing the worst two schools a total of four times.

They must realize that the problem with attendance and recruiting, and probably more than 90% of the fans want him gone won’t go away because we win 16 games. If they don’t fix the problem now it will only get worse.

I don’t know what “the number” is. I guess people are just saying that if we have an incredibly awful season that they’ll fire Tubby. He dodged a bullet or two when we win a bunch of close games to low end small schools. We could easily be 6-11 vs 11-6.

I predicted 18 wins before the season and 6-9th place in the AAC. It seems to vary, but at this second, we’re playing better than I thought.

I tend to take a longer term view than 99% of the people here. We’re a couple of players from having an NCAA tourney team. I was hoping for player development this year, and we’ve seen some of that. Almost our entire team was a wildcard, and we’ve added a few pretty good players. Davenport has been solid, Parks has played better lately, Brewton, Johnson, and Nickelberry have shown flashes. Martin, as expected, has been phenomenal.

Recruiting isn’t over. A couple of good players and we’ll have a much more competitive team. The following year is a concern, but we rebuilt from a much bigger hole last year after most players were already signed. I’m confident that we could find at least similar players.

Instead of focusing on “what if’s” and the negatives, I’ve really enjoyed this team. No quitters here. They aren’t incredibly talented, but are playing better now. If they fire Tubby, that’s fine with me. If they keep him, he has my full support... Go Tigers!

Good points. Good post. I agree with what you are saying. He has done a really good job with both Martin and Parks. He can get players better. If he could add Harris and everyone comes back, we actually will be good to very good. Now going forward is a real problem if the new assistant(s) for Tubby can’t bring in the talent.

Lastly, if he can’t pull in Harris he has to go. To not be able to get the best from our own backyard is not going to cut it. Actually, it’s pathetic.

(01-11-2018 06:30 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 05:56 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 05:35 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

A 16 win season in reality is no difference than winning 14. I mean if they are actually saying we’ll keep him if he wins 16 but if he wins 14 he’s gone, that’s messed up if that’s their thinking. They have to know that we are only getting to 16 wins because we’re playing the worst two schools a total of four times.

They must realize that the problem with attendance and recruiting, and probably more than 90% of the fans want him gone won’t go away because we win 16 games. If they don’t fix the problem now it will only get worse.

I don’t know what “the number” is. I guess people are just saying that if we have an incredibly awful season that they’ll fire Tubby. He dodged a bullet or two when we win a bunch of close games to low end small schools. We could easily be 6-11 vs 11-6.

I predicted 18 wins before the season and 6-9th place in the AAC. It seems to vary, but at this second, we’re playing better than I thought.

I tend to take a longer term view than 99% of the people here. We’re a couple of players from having an NCAA tourney team. I was hoping for player development this year, and we’ve seen some of that. Almost our entire team was a wildcard, and we’ve added a few pretty good players. Davenport has been solid, Parks has played better lately, Brewton, Johnson, and Nickelberry have shown flashes. Martin, as expected, has been phenomenal.

Recruiting isn’t over. A couple of good players and we’ll have a much more competitive team. The following year is a concern, but we rebuilt from a much bigger hole last year after most players were already signed. I’m confident that we could find at least similar players.

Instead of focusing on “what if’s” and the negatives, I’ve really enjoyed this team. No quitters here. They aren’t incredibly talented, but are playing better now. If they fire Tubby, that’s fine with me. If they keep him, he has my full support... Go Tigers!

Good points. Good post. I agree with what you are saying. He has done a really good job with both Martin and Parks. He can get players better. If he could add Harris and everyone comes back, we actually will be good to very good. Now going forward is a real problem if the new assistant(s) for Tubby can’t bring in the talent.

Lastly, if he can’t pull in Harris he has to go. To not be able to get the best from our own backyard is not going to cut it. Actually, it’s pathetic.

It’s harder than it used to be. Word got out that it’s not the place to. E during the Pastner years. The transfers, the almost transfers, etc. I’m not saying a new charismatic coach couldn’t sign them, but I think it’s not as desireable to play for Memphis as it used to be. We’ve been fairly irrelevant since Cal left and these recruits were about 8-9 years old since we’ve been really good.

There aren’t a lot of high ranked players in the area this year. I think Harris is the highest at 120. I don’t think he’s after any other local kids (other than Lomax who’s already signed).

But you’re right, he needs to sign Harris. We desperately need a PG...

(01-11-2018 05:56 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 05:35 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

A 16 win season in reality is no difference than winning 14. I mean if they are actually saying we’ll keep him if he wins 16 but if he wins 14 he’s gone, that’s messed up if that’s their thinking. They have to know that we are only getting to 16 wins because we’re playing the worst two schools a total of four times.

They must realize that the problem with attendance and recruiting, and probably more than 90% of the fans want him gone won’t go away because we win 16 games. If they don’t fix the problem now it will only get worse.

I don’t know what “the number” is. I guess people are just saying that if we have an incredibly awful season that they’ll fire Tubby. He dodged a bullet or two when we win a bunch of close games to low end small schools. We could easily be 6-11 vs 11-6.

I predicted 18 wins before the season and 6-9th place in the AAC. It seems to vary, but at this second, we’re playing better than I thought.

I tend to take a longer term view than 99% of the people here. We’re a couple of players from having an NCAA tourney team. I was hoping for player development this year, and we’ve seen some of that. Almost our entire team was a wildcard, and we’ve added a few pretty good players. Davenport has been solid, Parks has played better lately, Brewton, Johnson, and Nickelberry have shown flashes. Martin, as expected, has been phenomenal.

Recruiting isn’t over. A couple of good players and we’ll have a much more competitive team. The following year is a concern, but we rebuilt from a much bigger hole last year after most players were already signed. I’m confident that we could find at least similar players.

Instead of focusing on “what if’s” and the negatives, I’ve really enjoyed this team. No quitters here. They aren’t incredibly talented, but are playing better now. If they fire Tubby, that’s fine with me. If they keep him, he has my full support... Go Tigers!

I am with you, 1987. I live out of town and have only been able to attend 2 games, but I have watched EVERY GAME. I always do & always will. I enjoy watching them play. While it can be frustrating, the games are, for the most part, exciting & competitive. Just support the team and see what Tubby can do. Although we can be disappointed in how he is conducting the rebuild, we really aren’t giving him a chance to do it his way.

(01-11-2018 12:37 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  For years we yearned for Bill Laurie to become more involved with the program. And this is what we get?

Looks that way.

The Administration and our generous well-heeled donors will have to weigh the cost to the program versus the benefit of retaining Tubby.

Their decision will impact me. My wife has retired and our income has declined. It will be a hard sell for me to persuade her to get on board for basketball season tickets next season. There is no hope presently for a return to relevancy.

(01-11-2018 12:12 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  Geoff touched on this yesterday. Clearly there is a disconnect between what majority of the fans want in a basketball coach, and by extension the program.

I get the impression the either...
A.) the administration really did believe Tubby would help ease the concerns and improve the image of Memphis basketball to Big 12 presidents. This actually makes a lot of sense, but it was obviously delusional, given where we actually fell in the pecking order.

B.) the administration is trying to further their own job prospects and staying away from any coach that could potentially recruit well enough to rouse suspicions from the NCAA was top priority no matter the cost. Was there no one cheaper?

C.) this administration is actually so unaware and clueless about basketball that they actually believed Tubby's style/fit would translate well enough to satisfy the expectations of the majority of Memphis fans, which is certainly tied to a historical level of success.

D.) Administration had very little say in the process and our boosters made the decision themselves. Obviously the bigger question then is are the boosters incompetent? If so, we might have a bigger problem...

Super smart to call out our major boosters as a "BIGGER PROBLEM"....Yikes

yeah, after back to back wins...it's definitely time for a change

(01-11-2018 08:00 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  yeah, after back to back wins...it's definitely time for a change

Go back to your Playstation. Adults are talking now.

(01-11-2018 08:26 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 08:00 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  yeah, after back to back wins...it's definitely time for a change

Go back to your Playstation. Adults are talking now.

I'm down if you wanna buy me a playstation...last console I owned was a N64 in the 90s

oh, the hours I wasted on GoldenEye.

(01-11-2018 02:09 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

I think he's going to win just enough games to get a third season. Unless there is another wave of transfers after the season (including Martin)....and then all bets are off.

16-15 (7-11), finish 8th in the league...

Just good enough to get a 3rd year.

Think Martin transfers after this season and we are about the same next year. Then we make a move.

(01-11-2018 09:10 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:09 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

I think he's going to win just enough games to get a third season. Unless there is another wave of transfers after the season (including Martin)....and then all bets are off.

16-15 (7-11), finish 8th in the league...

Just good enough to get a 3rd year.

Think Martin transfers after this season and we are about the same next year. Then we make a move.

All of this is possible. I’m staying with 18 wins, Tubby stays another year, Martin stays.

(01-11-2018 12:37 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 12:12 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  Geoff touched on this yesterday. Clearly there is a disconnect between what majority of the fans want in a basketball coach, and by extension the program.

I get the impression the either...
A.) the administration really did believe Tubby would help ease the concerns and improve the image of Memphis basketball to Big 12 presidents. This actually makes a lot of sense, but it was obviously delusional, given where we actually fell in the pecking order.

B.) the administration is trying to further their own job prospects and staying away from any coach that could potentially recruit well enough to rouse suspicions from the NCAA was top priority no matter the cost. Was there no one cheaper?

C.) this administration is actually so unaware and clueless about basketball that they actually believed Tubby's style/fit would translate well enough to satisfy the expectations of the majority of Memphis fans, which is certainly tied to a historical level of success.

D.) Administration had very little say in the process and our boosters made the decision themselves. Obviously the bigger question then is are the boosters incompetent? If so, we might have a bigger problem...

The administration was looking to get into the Big12- -- Josh Pastner and his clean program had helped our image with the Big12 but he could not coach a team effectively and the word had gotten out so recruits had begun to stay away.

So the administration had to take advantage of the chance to get rid of Josh and his perpetual contract but they wanted to maintain that squeaky clean image so as not to damage our chances of a Big12 invite-- Tubby Smith has a squeakier clean reputation than Josh and was the reigning coach of the year in the Big12 and TSN National Coach of the Year. To some it looked like the perfect solution. It has not tutned out like they planned.

Due to his poor PR skills and lack of recruiting Tubby would have had to win big here immediately to keep the fans coming and the team has not been good enough to get fans and the seats and soon--- not good enough to pay $$$ for tickets that are worth far less than the current price.

The Administration has no choice but to act unless the following takes place:

1- This team makes the post season (NCAA or NIT)

2- A few players of any kind of note commit before the end of the season

3- Tubby does a Televised interview that somehow gives fans some hope.

Right now the problem is not necessarily the current team - it is the lack of hope.

If I'm the AD I'm very worried about next year's renewals-- it is likely to be shocking.

"Right now the problem is not necessarily the current team - it is the lack of hope."

I had a post yesterday devoted to this as being the single biggest reason for attendance, recruiting, apathy, casual fan interest and revenue problems. They are all intertwined but when the fan base loses hope, it's very hard to turn it around unless you hire a coach with a great sales personality or who gets top 50 kids right off the bat (or both like Cal).

And all Martin does is keep us in the .500 range record wise-not able, without a lot of help, to take us to the next level of 22 wins or so with this years schedule.

(01-11-2018 09:15 PM)Shooters Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 12:37 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 12:12 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  Geoff touched on this yesterday. Clearly there is a disconnect between what majority of the fans want in a basketball coach, and by extension the program.

I get the impression the either...
A.) the administration really did believe Tubby would help ease the concerns and improve the image of Memphis basketball to Big 12 presidents. This actually makes a lot of sense, but it was obviously delusional, given where we actually fell in the pecking order.

B.) the administration is trying to further their own job prospects and staying away from any coach that could potentially recruit well enough to rouse suspicions from the NCAA was top priority no matter the cost. Was there no one cheaper?

C.) this administration is actually so unaware and clueless about basketball that they actually believed Tubby's style/fit would translate well enough to satisfy the expectations of the majority of Memphis fans, which is certainly tied to a historical level of success.

D.) Administration had very little say in the process and our boosters made the decision themselves. Obviously the bigger question then is are the boosters incompetent? If so, we might have a bigger problem...

The administration was looking to get into the Big12- -- Josh Pastner and his clean program had helped our image with the Big12 but he could not coach a team effectively and the word had gotten out so recruits had begun to stay away.

So the administration had to take advantage of the chance to get rid of Josh and his perpetual contract but they wanted to maintain that squeaky clean image so as not to damage our chances of a Big12 invite-- Tubby Smith has a squeakier clean reputation than Josh and was the reigning coach of the year in the Big12 and TSN National Coach of the Year. To some it looked like the perfect solution. It has not tutned out like they planned.

Due to his poor PR skills and lack of recruiting Tubby would have had to win big here immediately to keep the fans coming and the team has not been good enough to get fans and the seats and soon--- not good enough to pay $$$ for tickets that are worth far less than the current price.

The Administration has no choice but to act unless the following takes place:

1- This team makes the post season (NCAA or NIT)

2- A few players of any kind of note commit before the end of the season

3- Tubby does a Televised interview that somehow gives fans some hope.

Right now the problem is not necessarily the current team - it is the lack of hope.

If I'm the AD I'm very worried about next year's renewals-- it is likely to be shocking.

"Right now the problem is not necessarily the current team - it is the lack of hope."

I had a post yesterday devoted to this as being the single biggest reason for attendance, recruiting, apathy, casual fan interest and revenue problems. They are all intertwined but when the fan base loses hope, it's very hard to turn it around unless you hire a coach with a great sales personality or who gets top 50 kids right off the bat (or both like Cal).

Winning will also turn it around. Problem is that you need good players to win big.

(01-11-2018 03:06 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:49 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 02:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  1. A 16 or 17 win season would be problematic with regard to Rudd/Bowen pulling the trigger for a change.

2. It would take a serious landslide of losing, which is certainly possible, for them to swallow their pride and move on from Tubby.

Just my opinion.

I said on here yesterday that this is where this headed. If he gets another year after this one, he's almost guaranteed 2 more because the team next year might even be a little better with a bunch of seniors. But that year 4 is gonna be ugly. Real ugly.

I feel the same way. There is no doubt (barring transfers) next year's team will be better than this year. We MIGHT even slide into the NCAA next season. The problem begins with the crash the season after that. I feel, at this point, the best case scenario if the Tub is here 5 years is 1 NCAA tournament and not making it out of the first weekend. That is why I am totally against the Tub, the ceiling is so incredibly low. We have a complete rebuild coming up after next season and the Tub has demonstrated for over a decade he is not going to bring in good recruits.

Unless Tubby has some Top 100 PLAYERS we don't know about, the chances of next year's team making the tourney are very slim and I'm assuming the AAC can't get any worse than this year; maybe the worst year ever in basketball.