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Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?
01-11-2018 09:27 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 09:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?

But what's to stop him from doing that now?

And here's the big difference. You can game today's system and get $30-40,000 out of it a year. The guaranteed income will be a lot lower. I would set it at a level where with that, plus Bismarck health insurance, plus a minimum wage job at today's minimum wage, he will be above the poverty line. That's more like the $7-10,000/year range.
01-11-2018 09:38 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 09:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?

But what's to stop him from doing that now?

And here's the big difference. You can game today's system and get $30-40,000 out of it a year. The guaranteed income will be a lot lower. I would set it at a level where with that, plus Bismarck health insurance, plus a minimum wage job at today's minimum wage, he will be above the poverty line. That's more like the $7-10,000/year range.

That's why "work requirements" are being implemented or pushed for that matter. Who knows what will ensue.
01-11-2018 09:42 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 09:42 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?
But what's to stop him from doing that now?
And here's the big difference. You can game today's system and get $30-40,000 out of it a year. The guaranteed income will be a lot lower. I would set it at a level where with that, plus Bismarck health insurance, plus a minimum wage job at today's minimum wage, he will be above the poverty line. That's more like the $7-10,000/year range.
That's why "work requirements" are being implemented or pushed for that matter. Who knows what will ensue.

The basic income approach would incentivize working. I would also make unemployment a workfare program. You show up for unemployment, you are given a job for 32 hours a week and you spend 8 hours in documented job search or job training, and you get paid for 40 hours at the minimum wage. I'd also look at kurzarbeit arrangements with companies that were experiencing slowdowns.
01-11-2018 09:45 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 08:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 12:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 11:17 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  The problem is that you will need bureaucrats who will manage things properly...and they do not exist.
The result will be 95-year old cancer patients denied coverage and 40 year old drug dealers forging their way with a resume on a napkin.
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Who cares as long as we get to keep more of our money right?01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle
If you get to keep a few more cents...it'll just run up the debt a few more cents...because they won't actually stop spending.
Republicans are afraid to actually change the system, so they piddle around the edges like this.
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This is what drives me up the wall. There are much better ways to run health and welfare. They are out there today working well. There are better ways to tax. They are out there today and working. But instead of changing the systems to something better, republicans seem content just to spend less on democrat programs. Democrat lite instead of change for the better.

Bismarck health care to replace Medicaid and ultimately phase out Medicare. A guaranteed minimum basic income to replace our welfare hodgepodge. Pay for it with a consumption tax which generates enough additional revenues to balance the budget and lower and flatten income tax rates. Make that a true alternative platform. Is that conservative? If you accept Barry Goldwater’s principle of, “proven ways, not because they are old but because they are true,” then not just yes but hell yes. These are things that work where they have been tried. They are based on providing a safety net, not massive redistribution of wealth and income. That makes them conservative in my book.

You can argue that “tax and spend” democrats are right or you can argue that “deficit and spend” republicans are right. I would say that neither is right—and neither is conservative.

And while you're at it, decriminalize marijuana and make abortion legal with restrictions and focus on making the alternatives such as adoption less difficult and expensive. That includes the basic concept that adoption by a gay couple is better than abortion.

Let republicans be the party of economic and personal freedom with a safety net. Let democrats be the collectivists/redistributionists/socialists/communists. Make it about issues and not personalities. Unless they are running against Hillary, republicans can't win a personality contest, but they can win a contest of ideas. I think that's a win for the republicans. It certainly wins my vote.

I could easily live with that.....that's one helluva forward thinking concept.....

you're good....
01-11-2018 09:46 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 09:45 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:42 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?
But what's to stop him from doing that now?
And here's the big difference. You can game today's system and get $30-40,000 out of it a year. The guaranteed income will be a lot lower. I would set it at a level where with that, plus Bismarck health insurance, plus a minimum wage job at today's minimum wage, he will be above the poverty line. That's more like the $7-10,000/year range.
That's why "work requirements" are being implemented or pushed for that matter. Who knows what will ensue.

The basic income approach would incentivize working. I would also make unemployment a workfare program. You show up for unemployment, you are given a job for 32 hours a week and you spend 8 hours in documented job search or job training, and you get paid for 40 hours at the minimum wage. I'd also look at kurzarbeit arrangements with companies that were experiencing slowdowns.


That's what I've been advocating for a long time. Anyone receiving welfare would have to WORK a certain number of hours in a certain business similar to how I got to my civilian work after the service. The government under Nixon was subsidizing agencies to employ ex-servicemen/women and after the set time was up it was up to the agency to accept them into their work force or not. With the work requirement for getting welfare as long as they're getting money from Tio Samuel they will be working. No work-no money and it'll be on them if they quit. Too bad so sad.

There's too many lazies already and if they want to panhandle that's on them. If one wants to learn a profession then they will work for their welfare dough. This will help the employers too as they'll be getting subsidized employees for free while also perhaps keeping them on after a certain time. My neighbor who's a bigwig with a cement company was having problems fill his work force, this would help solve his problem...for instance.
01-11-2018 09:56 PM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
I hope this means my fat worthless cousin that goes to the hospital every week (seriously, her or someone in her family is in ER pretty much every week) loses her medicaid.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 12:34 AM by Niner National.)
01-12-2018 12:34 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-11-2018 09:56 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:45 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:42 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  No to guaranteed income. If you give free money to anyone what are the chances that the person won't blow it on sex, drugs and then wind up in the gutter and we have to bail him/her out afterward?
But what's to stop him from doing that now?
And here's the big difference. You can game today's system and get $30-40,000 out of it a year. The guaranteed income will be a lot lower. I would set it at a level where with that, plus Bismarck health insurance, plus a minimum wage job at today's minimum wage, he will be above the poverty line. That's more like the $7-10,000/year range.
That's why "work requirements" are being implemented or pushed for that matter. Who knows what will ensue.

The basic income approach would incentivize working. I would also make unemployment a workfare program. You show up for unemployment, you are given a job for 32 hours a week and you spend 8 hours in documented job search or job training, and you get paid for 40 hours at the minimum wage. I'd also look at kurzarbeit arrangements with companies that were experiencing slowdowns.


That's what I've been advocating for a long time. Anyone receiving welfare would have to WORK a certain number of hours in a certain business similar to how I got to my civilian work after the service. The government under Nixon was subsidizing agencies to employ ex-servicemen/women and after the set time was up it was up to the agency to accept them into their work force or not. With the work requirement for getting welfare as long as they're getting money from Tio Samuel they will be working. No work-no money and it'll be on them if they quit. Too bad so sad.

There's too many lazies already and if they want to panhandle that's on them. If one wants to learn a profession then they will work for their welfare dough. This will help the employers too as they'll be getting subsidized employees for free while also perhaps keeping them on after a certain time. My neighbor who's a bigwig with a cement company was having problems fill his work force, this would help solve his problem...for instance.

I'm a negative income taxer.
We have a form of negative income tax in the earned income credit. The flaw in EIC is it is tied to having custody of children.

I am sick and tired of politicians declaring they are "pro-life" and "pro-family" while they sit around and don't do anything useful.

There is nothing pro-family about our current "safety net". It punishes marriage. It punishes savings. It herds the poor into housing that becomes crime centers and turn neighboring areas into wastelands without any decent places to buy goods or groceries. If you start working and do a good job and get more hours or get a raise you can encounter a benefits cliff that leaves you with less than you had before the raise or hours increase.

A pro-family system would sweep away numerous agencies of the government.

You are a competent adult, OK, you've got X dollars to live on, let's say $16,380 to pull a number out of the air [NOTE: anyone arguing the number will be ignored it is hypothetical for illustration only].

That's it. No government subsidized housing. No utility subsidy, etc. You get $315 per week.

Now you let's say you find a job working 20 hours a week at $9 an hour. You make $9360 and have gross pay of $180 per week and take home of about $155.

Under a negative income tax, we reduce your NIT benefit by 50% of take home so now you have $155 from working and $237.50 in NIT benefits for a grand total of $392.50. You've raised your annual income from $16,380 to $20,410.

Now you end up "full-time" averaging 36 hours per week. Now your take home from work is about $275 and NIT benefit is $177.50 for a total of $452.50 or $23,530 per year.

You are moving out of poverty, you can see the benefit of working instead of working meaning you are worse off than you were before.

All people are capitalists at heart. No one is going to work 40 hours to be worse off financially than if they were working 20 hours.

If we want to be pro-life, let's address the issues that contribute to choosing abortion.
Medical care
Cost of day care
Ability to actually take time off work and spend time with your kids.
Look at the laws in most states that make it illegal to pay a birth mother anything in excess of related medical costs and compensation for work missed related to the pregnancy.
01-12-2018 01:31 PM
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dfarr Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
If you guys only saw the people I see who are on medicaid and "disability" it'd make your jaws drop.
01-12-2018 03:25 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Trump proposes Medicaid work requirements
(01-12-2018 03:25 PM)dfarr Wrote:  If you guys only saw the people I see who are on medicaid and "disability" it'd make your jaws drop.


What you do not see does not mean the person is disabled. People with serious back injuries, but not enough to be in a wheelchair for life, can't do certain jobs anymore.

My dad was declared disabled because he had knee replacement surgeries on both knees. Yes, he still have issues falling at times. But, when he goes to the store he can park in the Handicapped Parking spaces.

I was born with a deformed inner ear. Iy does caused me to have infections that causes balance issues.

Like I said, not everything you see does not mean there is issues that you can not see.
01-12-2018 04:55 PM
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