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MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
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ODUCoach Online
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Post: #381
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 03:13 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 01:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 01:11 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Is it better to have a wing who won't shoot beyond 15 feet or a wing who shoots 32% from inside the arc and 26% beyond it?

I will take the one who is willing to shoot and force someone to guard him every time.

I understand this argument, and I think it's fair, but Haynes takes some of the worst shots in basketball. At least three times last night, he took shots with one foot on the three point line (he made one of them).

I'd like to have a guy who can take (and make) good shots in the flow of the offense and is willing to pass it up and move it along to the next guy, if he doesn't have a good look.

Your points are fair, but I don't think either one of them is the guy you described in your last paragraph.


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01-12-2018 03:59 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #382
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 03:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:24 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Then this should show up in Talleys on/off court numbers, right?

As you should know, that would depend on what the rotations looked like. Who was typically on the floor when he was/wasn't. There are a lot of variables. It also is affected by the fact that we had NOBODY behind him. It is not like we were replacing him with studs.

What do you mean, we had Randy Haynes replacing him last year?

Randy Haynes was X Green last year... JJ had destroyed his confidence.

Then why did he shoot so much last year and why did he continue that into this year?

I would be for Jones destroying Haynes confidence in his 3 point shot.

Yes we know. Last year it was Fields and this year it is Haynes. Blah, blah, blah.

What happened to Caver last night in the biggest game of the year? Also, it seems pretty obvious to me that Caver is paying the price for Fields not being here this season by having to play 40 or more minutes a game unless it is a blowout.

Where has Green been? What has he done to warrant his playing time over some of the others that sit? Miss shots? Turn the ball over? Foul?

We don't have enough dependable depth to adequately rest our starters. We could have more depth but Jones has not worked to develop the younger players by allowing them time in the games via regular substitutions. Until his hand is forced at some point, I don't see him changing so we should all expect more of the same.
01-12-2018 04:09 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #383
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
I'm not sure what happened to Caver, he didn't play well.

Green is struggling and not playing well. I'm guessing he is outplaying the guys we have that are not playing in practice.
01-12-2018 04:17 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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Post: #384
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
JJ and DT gave credit to WKU's Hollingsworth for playing lock down D on Caver.
01-12-2018 04:37 PM
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Post: #385
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 04:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I'm not sure what happened to Caver, he didn't play well.

Green is struggling and not playing well. I'm guessing he is outplaying the guys we have that are not playing in practice.

I don't disagree with either of those statements regarding Caver and Green.

I think Caver would be playing better regardless of how good he may be in any game if he simply could take a break a couple of times each half. Even if it was just for a minute or two. Fatigue makes a player a step slower, affects their shot, can go into them fouling when they wouldn't have otherwise. It is not efficient for either Caver or the team for him to be playing all 40 minutes. BJ also played too many minutes last night - 38 I believe I heard. Last night was an intense, physical game.

As far as Green goes, he may well be performing (defending) better in practice than either of the 2 freshmen, but if he isn't getting the job done when it actually counts then it is time to give someone else a look. I don't see how they could do much worse at this point if they had played the same number of minutes he has played. To be clear, I am not trying to sound like I am down or against Green. He is one of our young players that will be counted on in the years to come. It is just that for whatever reason, he does not appear comfortable out there right now and needs to not let something at one end of the court affect his play at the other end.
01-12-2018 05:04 PM
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bigblue78 Offline
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Post: #386
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.
01-12-2018 05:48 PM
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Petey Hodge Offline
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Post: #387
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
Seven game winning streaks are meaningless if they come from cupcake teams...

who have we become.... Seth's Virginia Teach?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 06:11 PM by Petey Hodge.)
01-12-2018 06:11 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #388
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 06:11 PM)Petey Hodge Wrote:  Seven game winning streaks are meaningless if they come from cupcake teams...

who have we become.... Seth's Virginia Teach?

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01-12-2018 06:19 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #389
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 06:11 PM)Petey Hodge Wrote:  Seven game winning streaks are meaningless if they come from cupcake teams...

who have we become.... Seth's Virginia Teach?

At the beginning of the season I would have said the biggest games are as follows, in this order:

VCU: loss
Temple: loss
WM: Loss
Dayton: Win
JMU: Win
WKU: loss
MTSU: TBD
Towson: Win

So we've lost all of our tough 50/50 games except Dayton and Towson. We beat JMU, but we should beat JMU this year. Maybe we can't handle the pressure of big games, even when we have the talent to win them.
01-12-2018 06:25 PM
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Post: #390
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.
01-12-2018 06:28 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #391
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
I just hate that it is entirely possible that we lose against every good team in this conference and farm enough wins against the trash to get to 20 or more wins and we'll just do it all over again next season
01-12-2018 06:29 PM
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 06:28 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.

A former ODU great used to shoot a line drive shot with great results. Of course he was 6'-7" so that extra 2 or 3 inches in height may have given him a bit more of a margin of error, or it could be that he was just a lot more accurate in spite of it all. I'd take Ronnie Valentine on this ODU team in spite of his flat shot. He may not have been a good enough defender to ever see the floor with Jones coaching though. For those that don't know much about Ronnie, he scored in double figures in over 100 consecutive games at ODU and for his career averaged nearly 10 rebounds per game (if memory serves me correctly). In other words, he nearly averaged a double/double for his career!!!
01-12-2018 07:06 PM
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Post: #393
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 07:06 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 06:28 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.

A former ODU great used to shoot a line drive shot with great results. Of course he was 6'-7" so that extra 2 or 3 inches in height may have given him a bit more of a margin of error, or it could be that he was just a lot more accurate in spite of it all. I'd take Ronnie Valentine on this ODU team in spite of his flat shot. He may not have been a good enough defender to ever see the floor with Jones coaching though. For those that don't know much about Ronnie, he scored in double figures in over 100 consecutive games at ODU and for his career averaged nearly 10 rebounds per game (if memory serves me correctly). In other words, he nearly averaged a double/double for his career!!!

Sorry...meant Caver not Haynes. Haynes has a decent shooting arc and rotation. Haynes has to shoot rhythm shots.
01-12-2018 08:32 PM
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mac Offline
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
For you ODUball.

Valentine, who averaged 21.8 points per game for his career and 9.4 rebounds per game, shot .514 from the floor and .730 from the line. He was named Associated Press honorable mention All-American in 1979 and 1980. He led Old Dominion in scoring all four seasons he played, and held five school records.

He scored in double figures every game he ever played in. And there was no three point shot either.
01-12-2018 08:45 PM
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 06:28 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.

Slump or can he just not shoot?
01-12-2018 09:26 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #396
RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 07:06 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 06:28 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.

A former ODU great used to shoot a line drive shot with great results. Of course he was 6'-7" so that extra 2 or 3 inches in height may have given him a bit more of a margin of error, or it could be that he was just a lot more accurate in spite of it all. I'd take Ronnie Valentine on this ODU team in spite of his flat shot. He may not have been a good enough defender to ever see the floor with Jones coaching though. For those that don't know much about Ronnie, he scored in double figures in over 100 consecutive games at ODU and for his career averaged nearly 10 rebounds per game (if memory serves me correctly). In other words, he nearly averaged a double/double for his career!!!

Freeman was an awful defender but played.
01-12-2018 09:27 PM
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 04:37 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  JJ and DT gave credit to WKU's Hollingsworth for playing lock down D on Caver.
Who the f is DT? Trump?

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01-12-2018 10:37 PM
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MonarchManiac Online
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
Twardzik

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01-12-2018 10:41 PM
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
(01-12-2018 09:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 07:06 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 06:28 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:48 PM)bigblue78 Wrote:  I can't assess whether fatigue is the factor, but Caver is in a mini shooting slump...last 3 games 14-47 FG (.298). Of course, in those same 3 games he has 17 assists and 3 TOs. Unfortunately, ODU's offense is largely dependent on Caver and Stith creating shots to open spaces for the other players.

Post-game, Twardzik mentioned that WKU thought that the Hollingsworth match-up vs Caver would be favorable for WKU. Hollingsworth held CUSA-leading scorer Elmore to 5-15 FGs last Saturday.

Haynes is in a major shooting slump because his shot is fundamentally flawed thus making him inconsistent. He has no arc on his shot and thus his shot has to perfect every time. Last night he shot line drive after line drive.

A former ODU great used to shoot a line drive shot with great results. Of course he was 6'-7" so that extra 2 or 3 inches in height may have given him a bit more of a margin of error, or it could be that he was just a lot more accurate in spite of it all. I'd take Ronnie Valentine on this ODU team in spite of his flat shot. He may not have been a good enough defender to ever see the floor with Jones coaching though. For those that don't know much about Ronnie, he scored in double figures in over 100 consecutive games at ODU and for his career averaged nearly 10 rebounds per game (if memory serves me correctly). In other words, he nearly averaged a double/double for his career!!!

Freeman was an awful defender but played.

Not true.
01-12-2018 11:19 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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RE: MBB: WKU Game - Thursday
Another year, another round of excuses and still zero explanation for why we are not trying to develop depth when we are already out of the running for an at large.

Jones's entire strategy is beyond stupid, wearing this team out now serves zero purpose and not playing huett and green (our supposed saviors according to the same "fans" who overhype every single recruiting class) is actually hurting the team's prospects not just this year but long term as well. There is zero excuse for this stupidity.

We are not making the NCAA tourney with a 6 man rotation and we aren't making it next year with what we are bringing back.

Draw the freaking line already, we lose every important game we play under jones, he is who he is.........a coach who's best years are behind him who did nothing at American to earn this job and has done nothing in 5 years to keep it.

Clean house, wood, jeff, everyone and bring in a YOUNG hire who can inject some life into this moribund program. Do the right thing Broderick, odu deserves better than wood and jeff!
01-13-2018 02:17 AM
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