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Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
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okgc Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette
01-08-2018 09:00 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
I went to both schools. Bad leadership at WMU during the growth years of state colleges in Michigan during the 1960's and 1970's contributed to this. Presidents James W. Miller and John T. Bernhard presided during this period, most of the blame should go to Bernhard-IMO. They both lacked a vision of what WMU should be and could be.

With the exception of monumental mediocrity Judith Bailey, WMU has had good leadership since then-Haenicke, Floyd and Dunn all did a great job developing Western with respect to our regional college competitors-CMU and EMU. Montgomery gets his chance to show what he can do.

As for student population, it isn't all about that. University of Notre Dame only has 12,000 students, yet has prestige and impact far beyond that. True, they are a private school unconstrained with the implications of filling a role as state school.

Adding our Medical School and Law School were outstanding moves and projected Western's mission far beyond our compatriots in Mt. Pleasant and Ypsilanti. We've pushed to maintain our classification as a Research/Doctoral University, GVSU doesn't have the maturity, longevity or history to compete with Western on those terms.

Montgomery needs to focus on developing our schools and offerings like Dunn did. In the future WMU will be judged on the caliber of students we bring in, the quality of our research and the select nature of the programs we offer. When GVSU has an accredited Engineering School, a nationally recognized Flight School, a Medical School, a Law school and a Paper technology program-THEN they can pose a threat to Western. As it is now, they're just a large, liberal arts type college that caters largely to commuter students in Michigan's 2nd most populous city and THE most populous city in west Michigan.
01-08-2018 11:38 PM
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GullLake Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-08-2018 11:38 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  I went to both schools. Bad leadership at WMU during the growth years of state colleges in Michigan during the 1960's and 1970's contributed to this. Presidents James W. Miller and John T. Bernhard presided during this period, most of the blame should go to Bernhard-IMO. They both lacked a vision of what WMU should be and could be.

With the exception of monumental mediocrity Judith Bailey, WMU has had good leadership since then-Haenicke, Floyd and Dunn all did a great job developing Western with respect to our regional college competitors-CMU and EMU. Montgomery gets his chance to show what he can do.

As for student population, it isn't all about that. University of Notre Dame only has 12,000 students, yet has prestige and impact far beyond that. True, they are a private school unconstrained with the implications of filling a role as state school.

Adding our Medical School and Law School were outstanding moves and projected Western's mission far beyond our compatriots in Mt. Pleasant and Ypsilanti. We've pushed to maintain our classification as a Research/Doctoral University, GVSU doesn't have the maturity, longevity or history to compete with Western on those terms.

Montgomery needs to focus on developing our schools and offerings like Dunn did. In the future WMU will be judged on the caliber of students we bring in, the quality of our research and the select nature of the programs we offer. When GVSU has an accredited Engineering School, a nationally recognized Flight School, a Medical School, a Law school and a Paper technology program-THEN they can pose a threat to Western. As it is now, they're just a large, liberal arts type college that caters largely to commuter students in Michigan's 2nd most populous city and THE most populous city in west Michigan.

Bottom-line, when a high school senior decides between WMU and GVSU, more go to GVSU.

For undergraduates, INSTRUCTION is the most important. WMU's classification as a research/doctoral university is irrelevant if the student feels he/she won't receive the attention/investment from faculty (full professors, not TAs) that would be provided at another institution.

And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.
01-09-2018 09:38 AM
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broncofan1 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
The law school affiliation is quickly becoming a detriment.
01-09-2018 10:02 AM
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ColinApocalypse Online
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Post: #25
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 10:02 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  The law school affiliation is quickly becoming a detriment.

Agreed. I appreciate that the university is trying to expand into a more prestigious institution by adding law and med schools, but at this point it seems like the admin only made the law school move so that they could say, "look, we have a law school!" Kind of like CMU with their med school.

WMU's med school on the other hand is set up for success and was a really great move. Downtown location right next to Bronson, and partnered with both Borgess and Bronson. Plus the huge support of the Stryker family. A+ work all around.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 02:13 PM by ColinApocalypse.)
01-09-2018 01:57 PM
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ColinApocalypse Online
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Post: #26
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 02:22 PM by ColinApocalypse.)
01-09-2018 02:07 PM
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okgc Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 02:07 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.

The planned new WMU student center should open 2021.
01-09-2018 02:27 PM
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ColinApocalypse Online
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Post: #28
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 02:27 PM)okgc Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 02:07 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.

The planned new WMU student center should open 2021.

I heard that it was in talks, but I didn't know anything was set in stone. Thanks for the info!
01-09-2018 02:38 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
Quote:And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.

Defend that statement with some arguments.

Any program offerings that distinguish Western from it's regional Michigan rivals is for the best. The program is accredited, so what's your beef?

Use the savings for outreach and undergrad Admissions? That's a pretty broad statement, but what is says to me is WMU needs to accept what it is and be more of what it has been in the past-a regional, 'no frills' university with standard offerings. In other words, be more like CMU, EMU, GVSU and SVSU. Yeah, that'll get the job done-NOT.

If we offer the same programs as GVSU, they will continue to increase in student population while we decrease. Why? Because there are a hell of a lot more folks in Kent/Ottaway/Muskegon County than there are in Metro-Kalamazoo. Why would anyone come from the GR region to attend school in Kalamazoo when they can leverage the exact same programs in their own backyard? They won't.

Western needs the professional programs to set us apart and make us attractive. That was the plan Haenicke and Dunn put together and it was the right move. We should do more of that, not less.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 10:12 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-09-2018 10:11 PM
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ColinApocalypse Online
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Post: #30
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 10:11 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
Quote:And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.

Defend that statement with some arguments.

Any program offerings that distinguish Western from it's regional Michigan rivals is for the best. The program is accredited, so what's your beef?

Use the savings for outreach and undergrad Admissions? That's a pretty broad statement, but what is says to me is WMU needs to accept what it is and be more of what it has been in the past-a regional, 'no frills' university with standard offerings. In other words, be more like CMU, EMU, GVSU and SVSU. Yeah, that'll get the job done-NOT.

If we offer the same programs as GVSU, they will continue to increase in student population while we decrease. Why? Because there are a hell of a lot more folks in Kent/Ottaway/Muskegon County than there are in Metro-Kalamazoo. Why would anyone come from the GR region to attend school in Kalamazoo when they can leverage the exact same programs in their own backyard? They won't.

Western needs the professional programs to set us apart and make us attractive. That was the plan Haenicke and Dunn put together and it was the right move. We should do more of that, not less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Mi...reputation

Poor reputation, sanctions from the American Bar Association, lawsuits, plummeting enrollment, staff layoffs, poor post-graduation employment outlook, consistently ranked poorly by independent publications...
01-09-2018 10:48 PM
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