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If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #1
If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.


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01-05-2018 11:43 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #2
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
FCS doesn't seed after top 8 - uses regional match-ups for bottom 16.

Campus sites until the championship.

I could see doing the semi-final at neutral site, Quarters not so much.
01-05-2018 11:52 AM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #3
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

Never happen. Anyone with a shot at playing in the NFL would be skipping the playoffs and the legitimacy of the whole structure would be called into question. People are trying to force their personal sense of fairness or what would work in their opinion into a situation not in search of a solution.
01-05-2018 12:11 PM
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TheOriginalBigApp Offline
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
01-05-2018 12:13 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #5
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
Waaaay too big. Plus FCS doesnt play 12 regular season games. Eight is plenty.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 12:42 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-05-2018 12:42 PM
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arkstfan Away
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 12:13 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

Your premise is wrong.
The Pioneer has participated in the FCS playoff every year since 2013, the NEC since 2010. The Patriot League has changed their scholarship rules and is a long-time playoff participant.

SWAC pulled out of the playoff years ago with a made for TV title game that ended up faltering financially and they were able to work a deal to play the MEAC champ the first weekend of bowls for national TV exposure and decent money.

Ivy quit playing post-season in football in 1945.
01-05-2018 12:43 PM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 11:52 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  FCS doesn't seed after top 8 - uses regional match-ups for bottom 16.

Campus sites until the championship.

I could see doing the semi-final at neutral site, Quarters not so much.
I used seedings instead of regional match-ups as FBS teams are likely to have more travel money, and frankly it was easier than trying to figure out regional matchups.

I figure the NY6 bowls would at least rotate through the semi's and since there are 4 quarterfinals and 4 other NY6 bowls then why not match those up.



(01-05-2018 12:11 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Never happen. Anyone with a shot at playing in the NFL would be skipping the playoffs and the legitimacy of the whole structure would be called into question. People are trying to force their personal sense of fairness or what would work in their opinion into a situation not in search of a solution.

I don't think players would skip the playoffs. I don't think there have been any players that have skipped one of the NY6 games yet, much less the current playoffs. Players would continue to skip the other bowl games however.


(01-05-2018 12:13 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

I wouldn't call it the holy grail, but I think it's a much better system than what we have now. Every FBS program does want to be able to compete for the championship, but half the schools have no realistic chance in the current setup. Going to a system like this would give them at least a slight chance.

----

Biggest problem I see would be increase in number of games played. FCS teams do not play in conference championship games, and play 11 game regular season vs FBS's 12. Top teams in this scenario would play 2 more games than FCS counterparts.
01-05-2018 12:58 PM
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Eldonabe Online
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
THIS

WILL

NEVER

HAPPEN!
01-05-2018 01:01 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #9
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:01 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  THIS

WILL

NEVER

HAPPEN!

Actually, there is an easier solution...

If you don't like how the "Bowl Subdivision" crowns their champion and if you prefer the method of how the "Championship Subdivision" crowns theirs, there is absolutely NOTHING to stop UCF or any other school from re-orienting themselves and joining the FCS subdivision.

Oh, yeah...you'd have to give up the money... But if FBS is so very unfair, then take your principled stand, give up the money, and go compete there.
01-05-2018 01:06 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #10
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 12:13 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.


Fordham sees something with the Patriot League that could be much bigger than what they are. When you had Lafayette Vs Lehigh played a game at Yankee Stadium one year? They drew over 45.000 fans. That helps pave the way to add scholarships and pay more sports for the costs. That is why Fordham have been pushing for scholarships at the Patriot League level. The idea is to test which schools in some of these programs who could support FBS size crowds. It paves the way for Army and Navy to play them in football.
01-05-2018 01:14 PM
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TheOriginalBigApp Offline
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Post: #11
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 12:43 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 12:13 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

Your premise is wrong.
The Pioneer has participated in the FCS playoff every year since 2013, the NEC since 2010. The Patriot League has changed their scholarship rules and is a long-time playoff participant.

SWAC pulled out of the playoff years ago with a made for TV title game that ended up faltering financially and they were able to work a deal to play the MEAC champ the first weekend of bowls for national TV exposure and decent money.

Ivy quit playing post-season in football in 1945.

If my premise is wrong, why'd you validate everything I said? Pioneer may participate in the playoffs but is mere lip service, they don't provide scholarships like the rest of FCS. You can thank Harbaugh at San Diego for this.

I'm aware Patriot has participated in the playoffs, I've attended playoff games involving Patriot teams. That doesn't mean they fully fund their programs and scholarships like the SoCon, CAA or MVC.

And yes, MEAC, SWAC and IVY do NOT participate at all. MEAC & SWAC prefer to play in an exhibition game than participate in a championship event. Why? They know their fanbases don't care about winning an FCS title.

so, where am I wrong again?
01-05-2018 01:18 PM
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
An 8 school playoff would not use the NY6 format, rather the NY6 would consists of 4 playoff games and 2 consolation bowls, rather than 2 semi-finals and 4 consolation bowls. The committee is still charged with getting the top 10 schools in a bowl game and the top G5 a game (hence the 11th P5 school gets a NY6 access to play the G5). And none of the NY6 bowls will agree to move off of New Years weekend, as too many activities revolve around that, and also alumni will make that one bowl trip during the winter break, they will not do so before or after.

In fact that has always been the issue with going to 8, how do you handle the semi-final games. Tickets to the National Championship, like the NCAA Final Four or NFL Championship, will sell out independent of who is playing or the fan bases. That game can be held January 14th time frame and work fine, even with NFL playoffs. The semi-finals will have a huge problem filling stadiums. All those fans who traveled to the first round Bowl game are vacation spent. While some have the resources and the desire to make a 2nd trip, the majority do not. SO they wont travel for the semi-final game.

Frank the Tank's proposal makes a lot of sense, having the two highest seeded semi-final schools host that round on campus. While this will work fine with Southern teams, one does worry about Northern schools, and even plains schools like Oklahoma where blizzards are not uncommon in January. My suggestion is hold such games in the nearest dome. Indianapolis, Detroit and Minnesota NFL teams offer domes the B1G could tap. Jerry World is reachable for Oklahoma area fans. We probably just roll the dice and hope a Penn State or Washington is not hosting bad weather.

But this 2nd travel problem would make every NY6 Bowl venue shy from taking a semi-final game. They would rather have Notre Dame, Washington, Auburn and Penn State in consolation Bowls where their alumni travel for a New Years game than a semi-final game a week after New Years with a half filled stadium. That is a sure money loser for them.
01-05-2018 01:22 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  An 8 school playoff would not use the NY6 format, rather the NY6 would consists of 4 playoff games and 2 consolation bowls, rather than 2 semi-finals and 4 consolation bowls. The committee is still charged with getting the top 10 schools in a bowl game and the top G5 a game (hence the 11th P5 school gets a NY6 access to play the G5). And none of the NY6 bowls will agree to move off of New Years weekend, as too many activities revolve around that, and also alumni will make that one bowl trip during the winter break, they will not do so before or after.

In fact that has always been the issue with going to 8, how do you handle the semi-final games. Tickets to the National Championship, like the NCAA Final Four or NFL Championship, will sell out independent of who is playing or the fan bases. That game can be held January 14th time frame and work fine, even with NFL playoffs. The semi-finals will have a huge problem filling stadiums. All those fans who traveled to the first round Bowl game are vacation spent. While some have the resources and the desire to make a 2nd trip, the majority do not. SO they wont travel for the semi-final game.

Frank the Tank's proposal makes a lot of sense, having the two highest seeded semi-final schools host that round on campus. While this will work fine with Southern teams, one does worry about Northern schools, and even plains schools like Oklahoma where blizzards are not uncommon in January. My suggestion is hold such games in the nearest dome. Indianapolis, Detroit and Minnesota NFL teams offer domes the B1G could tap. Jerry World is reachable for Oklahoma area fans. We probably just roll the dice and hope a Penn State or Washington is not hosting bad weather.

But this 2nd travel problem would make every NY6 Bowl venue shy from taking a semi-final game. They would rather have Notre Dame, Washington, Auburn and Penn State in consolation Bowls where their alumni travel for a New Years game than a semi-final game a week after New Years with a half filled stadium. That is a sure money loser for them.


Fargo Dome is not that far either. Bigger than the Kibbie dome.
01-05-2018 01:29 PM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  An 8 school playoff would not use the NY6 format, rather the NY6 would consists of 4 playoff games and 2 consolation bowls, rather than 2 semi-finals and 4 consolation bowls. The committee is still charged with getting the top 10 schools in a bowl game and the top G5 a game (hence the 11th P5 school gets a NY6 access to play the G5). And none of the NY6 bowls will agree to move off of New Years weekend, as too many activities revolve around that, and also alumni will make that one bowl trip during the winter break, they will not do so before or after.

In fact that has always been the issue with going to 8, how do you handle the semi-final games. Tickets to the National Championship, like the NCAA Final Four or NFL Championship, will sell out independent of who is playing or the fan bases. That game can be held January 14th time frame and work fine, even with NFL playoffs. The semi-finals will have a huge problem filling stadiums. All those fans who traveled to the first round Bowl game are vacation spent. While some have the resources and the desire to make a 2nd trip, the majority do not. SO they wont travel for the semi-final game.

Frank the Tank's proposal makes a lot of sense, having the two highest seeded semi-final schools host that round on campus. While this will work fine with Southern teams, one does worry about Northern schools, and even plains schools like Oklahoma where blizzards are not uncommon in January. My suggestion is hold such games in the nearest dome. Indianapolis, Detroit and Minnesota NFL teams offer domes the B1G could tap. Jerry World is reachable for Oklahoma area fans. We probably just roll the dice and hope a Penn State or Washington is not hosting bad weather.

But this 2nd travel problem would make every NY6 Bowl venue shy from taking a semi-final game. They would rather have Notre Dame, Washington, Auburn and Penn State in consolation Bowls where their alumni travel for a New Years game than a semi-final game a week after New Years with a half filled stadium. That is a sure money loser for them.

My thought on making the major bowls happy would be to have them rotate through the semi and quarterfinal games. The 4 quarterfinals still on/around New Years with the other 2 games hosting the semifinals a week later.

You do bring up an interesting problem that I hadn't thought of in travel though. Fans are not likely to make 2 (or more) road trips to see multiple playoff games. It would be interesting to see how many fans have been able to attend both a semi final and the championship game in the current playoff. Attendance in quarterfinal games, whether expanding the playoffs to 8 or bigger as my example FCS style 24 team playoff, could very well have issues with attendance.
01-05-2018 01:33 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #15
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
A middle ground could be a 12-team tournament, with a play-in round. 10 conference champions and 2 wild cards. Seeding preference given to the top-4 conference champions.

Round 1: Play-In
Saturday, December 9, 2017
8-seed game: Boise St.(MWC) at UCF(AAC)
7-seed game: Toledo(MAC) at USC(PAC)
6-seed game: FAU(CUSA) at Wisconsin(wild card)
5-seed game: Troy(SB) at Alabama(wild card)

*editorial license to pick various winners and consolation bowls

Quarterfinals
Saturday, December 16, 2017
UCF (8-seed winner) at (1)Clemson(ACC)
USC (7-seed winner) at (2)Oklahoma(B12)
Wisconsin (6-seed winner) at (3)Georgia(SEC)
Alabama (5-seed winner) at (4)Ohio St.(B1G)

Semifinals
Monday, January 1, 2018
Sugar Bowl: (1)Clemson v. (5)Alabama (Quarterfinal winners)
Rose Bowl: (2)Oklahoma v. (3)Georgia (Quarterfinal winners)

National Championship
Monday, January 8, 2018
Atlanta, Georgia
(3)Georgia v. (5)Alabama (Semifinal winners)

Consolation Bowls:
Saturday, December 23, 2017
Round 1 losers or at large
Las Vegas Bowl: Boise St. v. Toledo
New Orleans Bowl: Troy v. FAU

December 29, 30 and January 1
NY6 - include the 4 quarterfinal losers and possible Round 1 losers (if needed to give all P5 and at least 1 G5 a spot in the NY6)
Cotton: Ohio St. v. USC
Fiesta: Penn St. v. Washington
Orange: Wisconsin v. Miami
Peach: UCF v. Auburn

Note that you can get the exact same semifinal and NY6 participants. Major difference for most teams is one additional game - and EVERYONE has the chance at the national championship. Of course, you could also move the Quarterfinals to the NY6 bowl games and then push the semifinals and championship games out one week. But, personally, I like the idea to give the top-4 champions a home game. That's a big reward for winning your conference and enhances the importance of regular season conference races - and helps to alleviate some travel issues.

Note also that by favoring conference champions for the top-4 seeds, you don't unfairly favor a non-division winner, like Alabama. Alabama, as an at large wild card, still has access to the playoff and national championship game, but they don't avoid the CCG and then land into the national championship by winning one big game. They must win three games, including to beat another conference champion on the road AND win a big bowl game. The pathway to the national championship should be more difficult for non-champs, not easier.

Most teams only play one extra game compared to the current CFP system. A team could possibly play 2 extra games compared to the current system, in the rare occasion where a CCG and Play-In participant makes it all the way to the national championship game. But, I don't think they would complain for that opportunity.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 01:54 PM by YNot.)
01-05-2018 01:45 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:45 PM)YNot Wrote:  A middle ground could be a 12-team tournament, with a play-in round. 10 conference champions and 2 wild cards. Seeding preference given to the top-4 conference champions.

Round 1: Play-In
Saturday, December 9, 2017
8-seed game: Boise St.(MWC) at UCF(AAC)
7-seed game: Toledo(MAC) at USC(PAC)
6-seed game: FAU(CUSA) at Wisconsin(wild card)
5-seed game: Troy(SB) at Alabama(wild card)

*editorial license to pick various winners and consolation bowls

Quarterfinals
Saturday, December 16, 2017
UCF (8-seed winner) at (1)Clemson(ACC)
USC (7-seed winner) at (2)Oklahoma(B12)
Wisconsin (6-seed winner) at (3)Georgia(SEC)
Alabama (5-seed winner) at (4)Ohio St.(B1G)

Semifinals
Monday, January 1, 2018
Sugar Bowl: (1)Clemson v. (5)Alabama (Quarterfinal winners)
Rose Bowl: (2)Oklahoma v. (3)Georgia (Quarterfinal winners)

National Championship
Monday, January 8, 2018
Atlanta, Georgia
(3)Georgia v. (5)Alabama (Semifinal winners)

Consolation Bowls:
Saturday, December 23, 2017
Round 1 losers or at large
Las Vegas Bowl: Boise St. v. Toledo
New Orleans Bowl: Troy v. FAU

December 29, 30 and January 1
NY6 - include the 4 quarterfinal losers and possible Round 1 losers (if needed to give all P5 and at least 1 G5 a spot in the NY6)
Cotton: Ohio St. v. USC
Fiesta: Penn St. v. Washington
Orange: Wisconsin v. Miami
Peach: UCF v. Auburn

Note that you can get the exact same semifinal and NY6 participants. Major difference for most teams is one additional game - and EVERYONE has the chance at the national championship. Of course, you could also move the Quarterfinals to the NY6 bowl games and then push the semifinals and championship games out one week. But, personally, I like the idea to give the top-4 champions a home game. That's a big reward for winning your conference and helps to alleviate some travel issues.

Most teams only play one extra game compared to the current CFP system. A team could possibly play 2 extra games compared to the current system, in the rare occasion where a CCG and Play-In participant makes it all the way to the national championship game. But, I don't think they would complain for that opportunity.


I think it would be regional pairings.

Boise State at USC
Toledo at Wisconsin
FAU at UCF
Troy at Alabama

This would be an ease of travel for the fans.
01-05-2018 01:51 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #17
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:51 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think it would be regional pairings.

Boise State at USC
Toledo at Wisconsin
FAU at UCF
Troy at Alabama

This would be an ease of travel for the fans.

Could be, but I think it would more likely favor the selection committee's rankings. The fans that are most relevant are the home fans. And the home team is not likely to have difficulty selling tickets to a win-or-go-home game. Why would USC want to face #25 Boise St. instead of unranked Toledo?
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 02:04 PM by YNot.)
01-05-2018 02:03 PM
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Post: #18
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:18 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 12:43 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 12:13 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Both divisions have 10 (qualifying) conferences - Each conference champion gets in.

14 At large teams determined by playoff committee.

Top 8 seeds receive byes. First two rounds on campus of higher seeded team. Top 16 seeds each get 1 home game.

Quarterfinal and Semifinal games at 'NY6' bowls. Championship game awarded to a bidding city like is done now.

Example of playoff using this years rankings attached, hopefully I didn't screw up any of the seedings.

IDK why people keep trying to float this idea that FCS-style playoffs is the holy grail...

A full 1/3 of FCS programs (if not a higher %) DO NOT WANT, CARE OR EVEN TRY to win the FCS championship.

MEAC, SWAC, IVY, PIONEER, NEC and Patriot Leagues either do not support scholarships and programs in an effort to compete, or simply do not wish to participate AT ALL in the FCS playoffs (MEAC, SWAC, Ivy).

At the FBS level, EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM WANTS TO WIN AND AT LEAST TRIES TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

Your premise is wrong.
The Pioneer has participated in the FCS playoff every year since 2013, the NEC since 2010. The Patriot League has changed their scholarship rules and is a long-time playoff participant.

SWAC pulled out of the playoff years ago with a made for TV title game that ended up faltering financially and they were able to work a deal to play the MEAC champ the first weekend of bowls for national TV exposure and decent money.

Ivy quit playing post-season in football in 1945.

If my premise is wrong, why'd you validate everything I said? Pioneer may participate in the playoffs but is mere lip service, they don't provide scholarships like the rest of FCS. You can thank Harbaugh at San Diego for this.

I'm aware Patriot has participated in the playoffs, I've attended playoff games involving Patriot teams. That doesn't mean they fully fund their programs and scholarships like the SoCon, CAA or MVC.

And yes, MEAC, SWAC and IVY do NOT participate at all. MEAC & SWAC prefer to play in an exhibition game than participate in a championship event. Why? They know their fanbases don't care about winning an FCS title.

so, where am I wrong again?

Might want to check San Diego's playoff record and Patriot is reforming it's scholarship policy.
As for MEAC and SWAC let's get real. They aren't rejecting something they've been competitive in and they are using their brand value to get more exposure and money than they playoff offered, not exactly a principled stand against the concept.
01-05-2018 02:09 PM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:45 PM)YNot Wrote:  A middle ground could be a 12-team tournament, with a play-in round. 10 conference champions and 2 wild cards. Seeding preference given to the top-4 conference champions.

Round 1: Play-In
Saturday, December 9, 2017
8-seed game: Boise St.(MWC) at UCF(AAC)
7-seed game: Toledo(MAC) at USC(PAC)
6-seed game: FAU(CUSA) at Wisconsin(wild card)
5-seed game: Troy(SB) at Alabama(wild card)

*editorial license to pick various winners and consolation bowls

Quarterfinals
Saturday, December 16, 2017
UCF (8-seed winner) at (1)Clemson(ACC)
USC (7-seed winner) at (2)Oklahoma(B12)
Wisconsin (6-seed winner) at (3)Georgia(SEC)
Alabama (5-seed winner) at (4)Ohio St.(B1G)

Semifinals
Monday, January 1, 2018
Sugar Bowl: (1)Clemson v. (5)Alabama (Quarterfinal winners)
Rose Bowl: (2)Oklahoma v. (3)Georgia (Quarterfinal winners)

National Championship
Monday, January 8, 2018
Atlanta, Georgia
(3)Georgia v. (5)Alabama (Semifinal winners)

Consolation Bowls:
Saturday, December 23, 2017
Round 1 losers or at large
Las Vegas Bowl: Boise St. v. Toledo
New Orleans Bowl: Troy v. FAU

December 29, 30 and January 1
NY6 - include the 4 quarterfinal losers and possible Round 1 losers (if needed to give all P5 and at least 1 G5 a spot in the NY6)
Cotton: Ohio St. v. USC
Fiesta: Penn St. v. Washington
Orange: Wisconsin v. Miami
Peach: UCF v. Auburn

Note that you can get the exact same semifinal and NY6 participants. Major difference for most teams is one additional game - and EVERYONE has the chance at the national championship. Of course, you could also move the Quarterfinals to the NY6 bowl games and then push the semifinals and championship games out one week. But, personally, I like the idea to give the top-4 champions a home game. That's a big reward for winning your conference and enhances the importance of regular season conference races - and helps to alleviate some travel issues.

Note also that by favoring conference champions for the top-4 seeds, you don't unfairly favor a non-division winner, like Alabama. Alabama, as an at large wild card, still has access to the playoff and national championship game, but they don't avoid the CCG and then land into the national championship by winning one big game. They must win three games, including to beat another conference champion on the road AND win a big bowl game. The pathway to the national championship should be more difficult for non-champs, not easier.

Most teams only play one extra game compared to the current CFP system. A team could possibly play 2 extra games compared to the current system, in the rare occasion where a CCG and Play-In participant makes it all the way to the national championship game. But, I don't think they would complain for that opportunity.

I like it. I'm not sure the P5 would agree to all conference champs with only 2 wild cards though.
01-05-2018 02:10 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #20
RE: If NCAA had playoffs in FBS like FCS has
(01-05-2018 01:33 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  An 8 school playoff would not use the NY6 format, rather the NY6 would consists of 4 playoff games and 2 consolation bowls, rather than 2 semi-finals and 4 consolation bowls. The committee is still charged with getting the top 10 schools in a bowl game and the top G5 a game (hence the 11th P5 school gets a NY6 access to play the G5). And none of the NY6 bowls will agree to move off of New Years weekend, as too many activities revolve around that, and also alumni will make that one bowl trip during the winter break, they will not do so before or after.

In fact that has always been the issue with going to 8, how do you handle the semi-final games. Tickets to the National Championship, like the NCAA Final Four or NFL Championship, will sell out independent of who is playing or the fan bases. That game can be held January 14th time frame and work fine, even with NFL playoffs. The semi-finals will have a huge problem filling stadiums. All those fans who traveled to the first round Bowl game are vacation spent. While some have the resources and the desire to make a 2nd trip, the majority do not. SO they wont travel for the semi-final game.

Frank the Tank's proposal makes a lot of sense, having the two highest seeded semi-final schools host that round on campus. While this will work fine with Southern teams, one does worry about Northern schools, and even plains schools like Oklahoma where blizzards are not uncommon in January. My suggestion is hold such games in the nearest dome. Indianapolis, Detroit and Minnesota NFL teams offer domes the B1G could tap. Jerry World is reachable for Oklahoma area fans. We probably just roll the dice and hope a Penn State or Washington is not hosting bad weather.

But this 2nd travel problem would make every NY6 Bowl venue shy from taking a semi-final game. They would rather have Notre Dame, Washington, Auburn and Penn State in consolation Bowls where their alumni travel for a New Years game than a semi-final game a week after New Years with a half filled stadium. That is a sure money loser for them.

My thought on making the major bowls happy would be to have them rotate through the semi and quarterfinal games. The 4 quarterfinals still on/around New Years with the other 2 games hosting the semifinals a week later.

You do bring up an interesting problem that I hadn't thought of in travel though. Fans are not likely to make 2 (or more) road trips to see multiple playoff games. It would be interesting to see how many fans have been able to attend both a semi final and the championship game in the current playoff. Attendance in quarterfinal games, whether expanding the playoffs to 8 or bigger as my example FCS style 24 team playoff, could very well have issues with attendance.

You can play the quarterfinals before the NY6 and just spill into the current NY6 structure (2 semifinals + 4 consolation).

Some argue that the 4 consolation bowls will be lightly attended. I disagree. They are already consolation bowl games. Attendance isn't likely to suffer much. Four of the quarterfinal fan bases won't have traveled (on-campus home games) and few fans for the other four will have traveled because of the limited number of tickets available for a true road game.

Whereas, the attendance and excitement at the four on-campus quarterfinal games would be huge. A significant reward for the top-4 conference champions - which helps to enhance the importance of the regular season.

Another idea is to host the semifinals at the same "Final Four" venue. Similar to the NCAA tournament. You can get fans from all four semifinal fan bases in the same location, plus all of the college football fans and corporate seats unaffiliated with any specific fan base.
01-05-2018 02:14 PM
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