(01-04-2018 09:18 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:59 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  I think 8 teams is the way to go, but ultimately it wont happen unless the P5 splits from the G5. The P5 will never allow a scenario where a G5 team can make the national championship.


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that was the point of my post, that they have named why they don't want 8, 6 actually works for everyone in what they need

6 takes as long as 8. May as well go to 8. The only reason the P5 would expand is they are tired of seeing thier champ on the sideline. Two P5 champs have been left out each of the last two years. To me—nothing cheapens and devalues the regular season more than spending all year determining the best team in a conference only to have a Committee say all those games (including a CC] were irrelevant. This isnt ice skating. Personally, we need to reduce the ice skating like subjectivity in the system and replace it where possible with objective on the field results.

Go to 8. All 5 P5 champs, top G5 champ, and 2 wildcards (just to give the ice skating judges something to do).

congrats UCF. pulled for ya in the peach bowl. hope ya'll enjoyed the visit to Atlanta and the Mercedes-Benz Stadium.

The playoff definitely needs to expand to 16 teams. No more, no less. Out of 130 FBS teams, sending 16 representatives to the playoff is reasonable. All conference champs deserve auto-bids; otherwise, what the hell are we playing the conference games for? The auto-bid system works for the NFL, NBA, MLB, and all other sports out there. Only college football sticks out like a sore thumb.

(01-04-2018 10:19 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:13 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  I never heard of competition where ~130 teams compete, playing 12 games each, with up to 9 of those games in conference, and the idea is have a CFP with just 4 teams. When is the last time teams from the SEC play teams from the PAC 12 in regular season? It rarely happens. So how can anyone make a determination of which conference/team is better when such a small sample of OOC games are actually played and rarely played cross country? It's a complete guess who the best teams are based on perception and subjection.

2016 usc vs bama.


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Ole Miss played at Cal in 2017

(01-04-2018 10:39 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Go to 8. All 5 P5 champs, top G5 champ, and 2 wildcards (just to give the ice skating judges something to do).

This is what they should do, but they wont. I don't think they want to give any G5 team a crack because the P5 schools:

-don't want to run the risk of losing to the G5 rep (UCF could've absolutely won a qtr final game this year, maybe even a semi)
- lose some borderline recruits (guys who might sit a year or 2 at a P5 school can play immediately at a G5 which spreads out the talent pool making it easier for G5 to beat P5 in playoff)
- don't wanna split the $$

(01-04-2018 08:56 AM)pesik Wrote:  ive heard numerous arguments on why the playoff shouldn't expand and all those reasons can be solved with a 6 team playoffs

no expansion reasons:
-length of season issue (player concerns, multiple semester concerns)
-preserving "the best regular season in sports"
-every game matter in college

expansion pros:
- not accessible to all teams, 50% of fbs teams have ZERO percent chance at a title
-4 seeds/5 power conferences

proposed system
6 at-larges spots, with a caveat that if a g5 is a conference champion and is in the top 17 they get an auto spot (no 2 loss g5 has ever been ranked that high)

top 2 seeds get a first round bye..
this would actually dramatically amplify the regular season, in the current system as long as you are in the top 4 it doesn't matter to anyone where you are seeded (you made it). the debate is just who is at 4... in a 6 team playoff your seeding actually matters, as the top 2 get first round byes & the 3rd seed likely goes against a g5, there a huge advantages to your seeding.. the debate is 1 through 6. every game and every schedule matters

EVERY single fbs team has a chance at winning a national title. for every team in college football, every game matters

there will always be 5 free slots, so if a dominant teams comes from every p5 conference, it isnt a beauty contest anymore, everything will be handled on the field

the first round (3v6, 4v5) should be the start of bowl season... that give them a few weeks to recover, also without extending the season...it would also only extended the amount of games for 4 teams (no different than the hawaii exception)

I know someone will say 16 team playoff, or 8 team playoff.. this isnt a debate on what is best of what we think should happen but a compromise i think fits everyone

6 is not a compromise. 6 is still an exclusive number that favors one group over another. Basically, 6=4.

(01-04-2018 09:22 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:59 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:56 AM)pesik Wrote:  ive heard numerous arguments on why the playoff shouldn't expand and all those reasons can be solved with a 6 team playoffs

no expansion reasons:
-length of season issue (player concerns, multiple semester concerns)
-preserving "the best regular season in sports"
-every game matter in college

expansion pros:
- not accessible to all teams, 50% of fbs teams have ZERO percent chance at a title
-4 seeds/5 power conferences

proposed system
6 at-larges spots, with a caveat that if a g5 is a conference champion and is in the top 17 they get an auto spot (no 2 loss g5 has ever been ranked that high)

top 2 seeds get a first round bye..
this would actually dramatically amplify the regular season, in the current system as long as you are in the top 4 it doesn't matter to anyone where you are seeded (you made it). the debate is just who is at 4... in a 6 team playoff your seeding actually matters, as the top 2 get first round byes & the 3rd seed likely goes against a g5, there a huge advantages to your seeding.. the debate is 1 through 6. every game and every schedule matters

EVERY single fbs team has a chance at winning a national title. for every team in college football, every game matters

there will always be 5 free slots, so if a dominant teams comes from every p5 conference, it isnt a beauty contest anymore, everything will be handled on the field

the first round (3v6, 4v5) should be the start of bowl season... that give them a few weeks to recover, also without extending the season...it would also only extended the amount of games for 4 teams (no different than the hawaii exception)

I know someone will say 16 team playoff, or 8 team playoff.. this isnt a debate on what is best of what we think should happen but a compromise i think fits everyone

I think 8 teams is the way to go, but ultimately it wont happen unless the P5 splits from the G5. The P5 will never allow a scenario where a G5 team can make the national championship.


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I know it won't happen but it should be 16 teams, 10 conference champs and 6 at large. If the FCS can make a 24 team playoff work there's no logical reason why FBS can't do 16.

Perfect.

(01-04-2018 11:57 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:19 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:13 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  I never heard of competition where ~130 teams compete, playing 12 games each, with up to 9 of those games in conference, and the idea is have a CFP with just 4 teams. When is the last time teams from the SEC play teams from the PAC 12 in regular season? It rarely happens. So how can anyone make a determination of which conference/team is better when such a small sample of OOC games are actually played and rarely played cross country? It's a complete guess who the best teams are based on perception and subjection.

2016 usc vs bama.


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Ole Miss played at Cal in 2017

My point was that even if you can find one a year, that is not a large enough sample size to determine the strengths and/or weaknesses when comparing conferences. When playing only 3 or 4 OOC games a year, you can only spread who you play so far. It becomes all subjective at some point in time.

Add to the fact that several P5 OOC schedules include FCS teams such as Mercer, who somehow played two SEC teams this season, top ones at that in Auburn and Alabama. So when SOS advocates talk about the weak AAC schedules are they should also look at some of the OOC cupcakes that P5 teams play.

None of the arguments against expanding the playoffs hold any water.

The NFL regular season is still great and more than 1/3 of the teams make the playoff. The CFB regular season is great because there are only 12 regular-season games, and not around 30 like in college basketball or 50 as in college baseball.

Pretty much any student athlete playing in a sport that consists of matches between two teams (i.e. not golf or track and field or something like that) will miss more classes for travel. Plus, the FCS has a playoff that goes on for 5 rounds.

(01-04-2018 12:06 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:39 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Go to 8. All 5 P5 champs, top G5 champ, and 2 wildcards (just to give the ice skating judges something to do).

This is what they should do, but they wont. I don't think they want to give any G5 team a crack because the P5 schools:

-don't want to run the risk of losing to the G5 rep (UCF could've absolutely won a qtr final game this year, maybe even a semi)
- lose some borderline recruits (guys who might sit a year or 2 at a P5 school can play immediately at a G5 which spreads out the talent pool making it easier for G5 to beat P5 in playoff)
- don't wanna split the $$

The money wont change. Besides, I dont think you can reasonably argue the P5 dont deserve more money. I think its about recruitng. If recruits can have a legit shot at a Natty at Arky St---then Arky St (and every other G5) becomes a much more attractive option. Frankly, signing with a high end G5 would probably be a much more valid path to the playoff than signing with any mid/lower tier P5 school. I think thats already true when it comes to playing in a NYD Bowl game.

I like the idea of a 6 team playoff because you should get something for finishing #1/#2 like a bye game.

plus it puts two more teams in and I doubt the P5 will ever allow 8 in...so I'll settle for 6 if they will.

(01-04-2018 10:39 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 09:18 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:59 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  I think 8 teams is the way to go, but ultimately it wont happen unless the P5 splits from the G5. The P5 will never allow a scenario where a G5 team can make the national championship.


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that was the point of my post, that they have named why they don't want 8, 6 actually works for everyone in what they need

6 takes as long as 8. May as well go to 8. The only reason the P5 would expand is they are tired of seeing thier champ on the sideline. Two P5 champs have been left out each of the last two years. To me—nothing cheapens and devalues the regular season more than spending all year determining the best team in a conference only to have a Committee say all those games (including a CC] were irrelevant. This isnt ice skating. Personally, we need to reduce the ice skating like subjectivity in the system and replace it where possible with objective on the field results.

Go to 8. All 5 P5 champs, top G5 champ, and 2 wildcards (just to give the ice skating judges something to do).

Then what happens if we do attain a major bowl tie-in, $15-$18MM a year, and autonomy (in effect, become the Power6 for real)? Does it drop to top G4 champs and 1 wildcard? Or is that later on down the line, and we join the P5 and break off with them? Lots of moving parts in this conjecture.

2017 FBS Football Championship
16 Team
1. ACC Champ Clemson
2. SEC Champ Georgia
3. B12 Champ Oklahoma
4. At-large Alabama
5. B10 Champ Ohio State
6. At-large Auburn
7. PAC Champ USC
8. At-large Wisconsin
9. At-large Stanford
10. At-large TCU
11. American Champ UCF
12. At-large Miami
13. MWC Champ Fresno
14. MAC Champ Toledo
15. CUSA Champ FAU
16. Sunbelt Champ Appalachian State

Round 1
Clemson 38 App St 35
Georgia 45 FAU 31
OK 76 Toledo 0
Bama 56 Fresno 3
OSU 37 Miami 16
UCF 34 Auburn 27
TCU 31 USC 24
WI 34 Stanford 17

Round 2
UCF 38 Clemson 28
WI 33 GA 31
OK 45 TCU 42
OSU 21 Bama 17

Semifinals
UCF 51 OK 48
OSU 34 WI 24

Championship
UCF 37 OSU 35

Must watch TV generating billions of dollars. Every school in every conference has a cheering interest from beginning of season to end. Proof? See the NCAA Mens Basketball Tournament, only bigger.

(01-04-2018 09:22 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:59 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:56 AM)pesik Wrote:  ive heard numerous arguments on why the playoff shouldn't expand and all those reasons can be solved with a 6 team playoffs

no expansion reasons:
-length of season issue (player concerns, multiple semester concerns)
-preserving "the best regular season in sports"
-every game matter in college

expansion pros:
- not accessible to all teams, 50% of fbs teams have ZERO percent chance at a title
-4 seeds/5 power conferences

proposed system
6 at-larges spots, with a caveat that if a g5 is a conference champion and is in the top 17 they get an auto spot (no 2 loss g5 has ever been ranked that high)

top 2 seeds get a first round bye..
this would actually dramatically amplify the regular season, in the current system as long as you are in the top 4 it doesn't matter to anyone where you are seeded (you made it). the debate is just who is at 4... in a 6 team playoff your seeding actually matters, as the top 2 get first round byes & the 3rd seed likely goes against a g5, there a huge advantages to your seeding.. the debate is 1 through 6. every game and every schedule matters

EVERY single fbs team has a chance at winning a national title. for every team in college football, every game matters

there will always be 5 free slots, so if a dominant teams comes from every p5 conference, it isnt a beauty contest anymore, everything will be handled on the field

the first round (3v6, 4v5) should be the start of bowl season... that give them a few weeks to recover, also without extending the season...it would also only extended the amount of games for 4 teams (no different than the hawaii exception)

I know someone will say 16 team playoff, or 8 team playoff.. this isnt a debate on what is best of what we think should happen but a compromise i think fits everyone

I think 8 teams is the way to go, but ultimately it wont happen unless the P5 splits from the G5. The P5 will never allow a scenario where a G5 team can make the national championship.


Sent from my Necronomicon using DemonTalk

I know it won't happen but it should be 16 teams, 10 conference champs and 6 at large. If the FCS can make a 24 team playoff work there's no logical reason why FBS can't do 16.

12 teams would be better than 16. 10 conference champs and 2 at large. You don't need or want 6 at large spots - THAT would destroy the college football regular season.

(01-04-2018 02:15 PM)vick mike Wrote:  2017 FBS Football Championship
16 Team
1. ACC Champ Clemson
2. SEC Champ Georgia
3. B12 Champ Oklahoma
4. At-large Alabama
5. B10 Champ Ohio State
6. At-large Auburn
7. PAC Champ USC
8. At-large Wisconsin
9. At-large Stanford
10. At-large TCU
11. American Champ UCF
12. At-large Miami
13. MWC Champ Fresno
14. MAC Champ Toledo
15. CUSA Champ FAU
16. Sunbelt Champ Appalachian State

Round 1
Clemson 38 App St 35
Georgia 45 FAU 31
OK 76 Toledo 0
Bama 56 Fresno 3
OSU 37 Miami 16
UCF 34 Auburn 27
TCU 31 USC 24
WI 34 Stanford 17

Round 2
UCF 38 Clemson 28
WI 33 GA 31
OK 45 TCU 42
OSU 21 Bama 17

Semifinals
UCF 51 OK 48
OSU 34 WI 24

Championship
UCF 37 OSU 35

Must watch TV generating billions of dollars. Every school in every conference has a cheering interest from beginning of season to end. Proof? See the NCAA Mens Basketball Tournament, only bigger.

Hmmm, leaving out CFP 7th ranked PSU, perhaps the best travelling team in the nation, who averages near 110K per game at home. Leaving out a ND team that was good, not great this year as well, in favor of App. State, really? I'm sure that will go over good. You can't do 16 teams, period, never will happen, nada, zilch!

8 team playoff, expandable to 10. Autobid if your conference is 14 teams or larger.

(01-04-2018 02:35 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 02:15 PM)vick mike Wrote:  2017 FBS Football Championship
16 Team
1. ACC Champ Clemson
2. SEC Champ Georgia
3. B12 Champ Oklahoma
4. At-large Alabama
5. B10 Champ Ohio State
6. At-large Auburn
7. PAC Champ USC
8. At-large Wisconsin
9. At-large Stanford
10. At-large TCU
11. American Champ UCF
12. At-large Miami
13. MWC Champ Fresno
14. MAC Champ Toledo
15. CUSA Champ FAU
16. Sunbelt Champ Appalachian State

Round 1
Clemson 38 App St 35
Georgia 45 FAU 31
OK 76 Toledo 0
Bama 56 Fresno 3
OSU 37 Miami 16
UCF 34 Auburn 27
TCU 31 USC 24
WI 34 Stanford 17

Round 2
UCF 38 Clemson 28
WI 33 GA 31
OK 45 TCU 42
OSU 21 Bama 17

Semifinals
UCF 51 OK 48
OSU 34 WI 24

Championship
UCF 37 OSU 35

Must watch TV generating billions of dollars. Every school in every conference has a cheering interest from beginning of season to end. Proof? See the NCAA Mens Basketball Tournament, only bigger.

Hmmm, leaving out CFP 7th ranked PSU, perhaps the best travelling team in the nation, who averages near 110K per game at home. Leaving out a ND team that was good, not great this year as well, in favor of App. State, really? I'm sure that will go over good. You can't do 16 teams, period, never will happen, nada, zilch!

ND would have to have a qualification formula. PSU did not make their championship game, too bad. They also said there’d never be any playoff, so they (and you) will be proven wrong. Again.

Anything more than 8 teams is too impractical for Div 1A football.

These players put in more time and energy for game preparation than their counterparts in the lower divisions, so that would definitely interfere with their academic schedules. I know there's a good chunk that don't take it seriously, but I bet the vast majority of the 100 plus roster wants and needs to complete a good degree.

That alone will keep school presidents from ever going to 12 or 16.

Then competition wise, as Pesik wrote, you dilute the regular season.
It's always a shocker when a top 4 team loses now... if three losses still gets you in, you can see how that goes away.

I am fine with 8 teams, but if the leaders want to go slower than this 6 team version is a good start.
Every big dog gets in and a slot is there for the 2017 UCF teams.

(01-04-2018 03:26 PM)vick mike Wrote:  ND would have to have a qualification formula. PSU did not make their championship game, too bad. They also said there’d never be any playoff, so they (and you) will be proven wrong. Again.

Just looked at the current CFP championship game teams. It seems that Alabama didn't make their conference championship game either.

Who cares what PSU administration said. I think they'd change their tune if they were left out in such a scenario. And if they didn't complain, I'm sure a Michigan, or Michigan State, or whoever travels well, would complain under such a scenario.

Does App. State travel well or draw 100K+ to their games? The bowls, their sponsors, and networks certainly want to know. It's all about money, always has, always will be. Forget about what's fair, or who can beat who on the field because it's irrelevant.

12 teams

Autobids
Every conference champ
Any Independent in the top 16 with 1 loss or less

Wildcards awarded if any spots remain after autobids:
Top ranked non-autobid team(s)
Wildcards are lowest seed(s)

Committee becomes 13 members all conferences have a representative, one from the independents, a AP voter, a former coach. Ranks teams to decide top seeds and wild cards if any. Rankings decide seeds. Also assigns home teams for quarterfinals.


First round held between December 14-17, higher seeded teams host. Let's kids do finals, heal up. 1-4 get a bye. No rematches are permitted first round, if seeding would lead to rematch lower team moves down a seed spot in matchups. So this year seeds would be 5)OSU vs 12)Wisconsin, 6)USC vs 11)Troy, 7)UCF vs 10)FAU, 8)Boise St vs 9)Toledo but OSU can't face Wisconsin so they get Troy. UCF can't face FAU so they get Wisconsin (who became the 11 seed and then had to flip with FAU to avoid a rematch). High seed is home, match ups: 5)OSU vs 11)Troy, 6)USC vs 10)FAU, 7)UCF vs 12)Wisconsin, 8)Boise St vs 9)Toledo.

Quarterfinals two week after (New year's Eve/day roughly), rotation of two Rose/Fiesta, Sugar/Orange. The other two are at the Peach and Cotton. Top seeds assigned geographically/traditionally winners of 1st round are matched up by highest vs lowest remaining seeds. This year would have been 1)Clemson vs 8)Boise St Orange, 2)OU vs 7)UCF Cotton, 3)Georgia vs 6)USC Peach, 4)Alabama vs 5)OSU Fiesta

Semi-Finals are the next weeks later (Jan 13-17) and held at a rotating one of the four Rose, Fiesta, Sugar, Orange. This year it's Sugar. 1)Clemson vs 5)OSU and 3)Georgia vs 7)UCF

Title game week later, rotates like the semifinal this year the Rose. 5)OSU vs 3)Georgia

Wraps it up by January 20-23. Christmas break is usually second week of December through second week of January. Players miss no finals time, four teams miss a week of second semester to start, two miss two weeks. Most extra games is 4 over a 6-7 week period. All schools get a buy week or two to rest.

(01-04-2018 04:40 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 03:26 PM)vick mike Wrote:  ND would have to have a qualification formula. PSU did not make their championship game, too bad. They also said there’d never be any playoff, so they (and you) will be proven wrong. Again.

Just looked at the current CFP championship game teams. It seems that Alabama didn't make their conference championship game either.

Who cares what PSU administration said. I think they'd change their tune if they were left out in such a scenario. And if they didn't complain, I'm sure a Michigan, or Michigan State, or whoever travels well, would complain under such a scenario.

Does App. State travel well or draw 100K+ to their games? The bowls, their sponsors, and networks certainly want to know. It's all about money, always has, always will be. Forget about what's fair, or who can beat who on the field because it's irrelevant.

Your argument is a mess and all over the place. My 16 team playoff proposal is a CFB version of the NCAA tournament, not a popularity contest like you’re advocating. Try to distinguish the differences. As for your PSU or Mich or Mich St complaining, that’s exactly the point. If you want to propose a playoff system where the teams with the biggest followings are invited in spite of record, go for it. Seems to me like that’s the mess we have now. Anyway, take a breath and try to focus.