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I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
Jumping ahead I know, but Big 10 numbers.
ND: 6 familiar foes in Big 10
Pitt: 4 familiar foes in Big 10
Syracuse: 3 familiar foes in Big 10
West Virginia: 3 familiar foes in Big 10
Navy: 3 familiar foes in Big 10 (most schools count the academies as P5)
Army: 2 familiar foes
Boston College: 2
Iowa State: 3

I'll stick with my 18 team leagues and take four: I'll take ND, Pitt, Syracuse, Iowa State. ND makes a push to include Navy but Navy isn't quite ready to face Big 10 competition.

East:Penn St, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland, Purdue
Central:ND, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Indiana, Illinois
West: Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Wisconsin

After this I went to the PAC:
Teams that meet criteria (include G5 because that was the most common for PAC):
Idaho: 5
SJSU: 3
SDSU: 2
NM: 3
UTEP: 3
NMSU: 2
BYU: 3
Wyoming: 3
Col St.:3

Based on the rules, PAC should not expand. However, I did not include Texas/Tech/TCU in my original claim for the SEC, so those three could move to the PAC. If I take from this list, however, I'm taking: SDSU, NM, BYU, and Colorado State to get to 16.

ACC:
(down Clemson and UNC to the SEC, Syracuse and Pitt to the Big 10):
5 schools meet criteria:
ECU: 2
Army: 2
West Virginia: 4
Navy: 4
USM: 2

Edit: WVU and Navy I'll take to get to 12. ECU replaces UNC and Navy gets the league back into NY after the loss of Syracuse.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 01:39 PM by Soobahk40050.)
01-02-2018 12:59 PM
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
IN a P3 of 60 or 63 I don't think you can find reasonable grouping of conferences where each new team maintains an existing rivalry with 2 of the EXISTING members of the new conference outside of the 1st conference selected. For instance I can pick 6 with established rivalries for the SEC but you won't be able to do that with the new teams the B1G picks next. The B1G is going to go with ND, NC, Duke, Va., Va. Tech and Pitt or Syracuse. Oustide of ND all of those schools really only have rivalries or a history with Maryland. So unless only the SEC in a P3 has to have existing rivalries I don't think you can make it work.

Also, in a P3 where you have 3 pretty equal leagues I think a little horse trading could make sense. I don't know if that would still be against the rules because the SEC & B1G would theoretically have their advantage cut into by consolidating to 3 leagues. There could still be a money difference but it would be smaller and teams could decide a better fit is definitely more important than the small revenue difference.
01-02-2018 01:03 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #23
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 01:03 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  IN a P3 of 60 or 63 I don't think you can find reasonable grouping of conferences where each new team maintains an existing rivalry with 2 of the EXISTING members of the new conference outside of the 1st conference selected. For instance I can pick 6 with established rivalries for the SEC but you won't be able to do that with the new teams the B1G picks next. The B1G is going to go with ND, NC, Duke, Va., Va. Tech and Pitt or Syracuse. Oustide of ND all of those schools really only have rivalries or a history with Maryland. So unless only the SEC in a P3 has to have existing rivalries I don't think you can make it work.

Also, in a P3 where you have 3 pretty equal leagues I think a little horse trading could make sense. I don't know if that would still be against the rules because the SEC & B1G would theoretically have their advantage cut into by consolidating to 3 leagues. There could still be a money difference but it would be smaller and teams could decide a better fit is definitely more important than the small revenue difference.

The solution of a 3 x 20 is that essentially the schools that move form their own division and already have the rivalries and annual games with each other.

So if the SEC expanded with say Clemson, Florida State, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Georgia Tech, and the Big 10 expanded with Duke, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Virginia, and the PAC took Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, T.C.U., and Texas Tech the rivalry and familiar foe conditions are met through the additions more than through connections to current conference members.

If say the SEC were permitted to expand to 24 while the PAC & Big 10 remained at 20 then Baylor, West Virginia, Louisville, and perhaps Duke could be accommodated leaving a slot for B.C. in the Big 10. Now the only odd man out is Wake Forest.

But while I'm not advocating for this exact division I use it to illustrate that with large moves the criteria for rivals and familiar foes are met by the moves themselves.

If the powers that be decided a P3 was in the best interest of the majority I agree a little shifting of existing members might come into play. But that's a good topic for another thread. This one is just a thinking exercise so I gave it rules that would approximate how conferences might think through this process, and for fun.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 01:20 PM by JRsec.)
01-02-2018 01:17 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #24
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
A P3 would be as useless as a P5.
01-02-2018 01:29 PM
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
Ok I am going to throw out a P3 where the first 2 leagues have contiguous partners and each new team in the SEC has a history with at least 2 teams and the B1G does on the basis of the Rose Bowl(that's kind of loose but its really the only way to make it work in the 2nd league). The 3rd league has fire power but expands across the country which is a negative but on the other hand a positive to ND in the ACC.

Again, I hold to the idea leagues shouldn't require them and are better served by a single set of standings and where teams lock in 3-4 rivals and play everyone else on an unequal basis.

SEC: add: Clemson, FSU, Ga. Tech, OU, Ok. St., KS (I think Miami or Louisville makes more sense but I don't think they meet the 2 rival requirement, don't know if I am wrong and either Miami or Louisville meet this requirement if they do choose one of those teams and KS. goes to the ACC.

B1G: add: Colorado, Az., Wash., Oregon, and either UCLA/Cal or USC/Stanford
***Rose Bowl is the 2 common opponent requirement and Colorado is the bridge.
***Does USC/Stanford want the B1G or ND/Texas in the ACC?

ACC: add: Texas, TT, TCU, ISU, WVU, ASU, Utah or BYU, and then either USC/Stanford or UCLA/CAL. IF Miami or Louisville was acceptable for the SEC KS. goes here.
****ACC lost 3 or 4 depending on whether the SEC has to take KS so with ND they need to add 8 or 9
****Does USC & Stanford want to pair themselves with the B1G and former teams such as Oregon & Wash. or do they want to play ND each year and a conference that includes Texas.
****Texas seems to want a rivalry with ND, this could allow for it. They don't want to go to the SEC and they won't go to the B1G without more partners than the B1G allows them to bring.
****This league definitely doesn't want to play everyone equally due to brands and geography.

I'll bet nobody has came up with this P3 before and I don't think I would have without JR's requirements.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 02:02 PM by Win5002.)
01-02-2018 01:48 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 01:48 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  Ok I am going to throw out a P3 where the first 2 leagues have contiguous partners and each new team in the SEC has a history with at least 2 teams and the B1G does on the basis of the Rose Bowl(that's kind of loose but its really the only way to make it work in the 2nd league). The 3rd league has fire power but expands across the country which is a negative but on the other hand a positive to ND in the ACC.

Again, I hold to the idea leagues shouldn't require them and are better served by a single set of standings and where teams lock in 3-4 rivals and play everyone else on an unequal basis.

SEC: add: Clemson, FSU, Ga. Tech, OU, Ok. St., KS (I think Miami or Louisville makes more sense but I don't think they meet the 2 rival requirement, don't know if I am wrong and either Miami or Louisville meet this requirement if they do choose one of those teams and KS. goes to the ACC.

B1G: add: Colorado, Az., Wash., Oregon, and either UCLA/Cal or USC/Stanford
***Rose Bowl is the 2 common opponent requirement and Colorado is the bridge.
***Does USC/Stanford want the B1G or ND/Texas in the ACC?

ACC: add: Texas, TT, TCU, ISU, WVU, ASU, Utah or BYU, and then either USC/Stanford or UCLA/CAL. IF Miami or Louisville was acceptable for the SEC KS. goes here.
****ACC lost 3 or 4 depending on whether the SEC has to take KS so with ND they need to add 8 or 9
****Does USC & Stanford want to pair themselves with the B1G and former teams such as Oregon & Wash. or do they want to play ND each year and a conference that includes Texas.
****Texas seems to want a rivalry with ND, this could allow for it. They don't want to go to the SEC and they won't go to the B1G without more partners than the B1G allows them to bring.
****This league definitely doesn't want to play everyone equally due to brands and geography.

I'll bet nobody has came up with this P3 before and I don't think I would have without JR's requirements.

So, to untangle that, this (with my divisional alignment):

SEC
West: Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas A&M
South: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson
Central: Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Florida St

B1G
West: Washington, Oregon, California, UCLA, Arizona
Central: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
North: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC
West: Stanford, USC, Arizona St, Utah, Texas Tech
South: Iowa St, Texas, TCU, Louisville, Miami
East: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
North: Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
01-02-2018 02:27 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
Continuing the process:

Review:
SEC adds UNC, Clemson, OK, OK State (18)
Big 10 adds: ND, Syracuse, Pitt, and Iowa State (18)
PAC adds: SDSU, NM, BYU and Colorado State (16)
ACC adds: West Virginia, Army, Navy and ECU (14)

This leaves the Big 12 with 6 teams: Texas, Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas and Kansas St. At this point, Kansas and Kansas St do not have any familiar foes not already in one of the above conferences. This leads me to think again that the PAC would take the remaining Big 12 teams and go to an 18 team conference instead of the teams listed above, but such is the exercise.

The eligible teams for the Big 12:
Rice: 4 teams
SMU: 4 teams
Houston: 4 teams

Take all three to move to a 9 team league.

The AAC:
Has lost: ECU, Navy, SMU, and Houston

Since some of the remaining teams are new to FBS, I am taking the most common opponents even if below 20. So for instance, UCF hasn't played anyone 20 times yet, but they have played 7 OOC opponents 7+ times in their history.

Schools that fit the criteria:
Marshall 3
UAB 4
Akron 2
Buffalo 3
USM 5
Toledo 2
North Texas 3
Louisiana-Lafayette 3
Louisiana Tech 3
UTEP 2

AAC takes: Marshall, UAB, USM, North Texas.

MWC: has lost: Colorado State, New Mexico, and SDSU

Eligible candidates:
Idaho 8
NMSU 7
UTEP 6
LT 6

MWC takes UTEP and stops.

C-USA:
Lost Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice and UTEP

Eligible candidates:
(ODU, Charlotte, and UTSA do not have familiar foes yet)
Troy 4
La-M 4
Ark State 4

They take: Ark State and Troy

Sun Belt:
Lost: Ark St, Troy
NO FBS team qualifies. Would have to take FCS teams (don't have statistics)

MAC:
Lost: None
No FBS team qualifies. Would have to take FCS teams.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 06:44 PM by Soobahk40050.)
01-02-2018 02:46 PM
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 02:27 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 01:48 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  Ok I am going to throw out a P3 where the first 2 leagues have contiguous partners and each new team in the SEC has a history with at least 2 teams and the B1G does on the basis of the Rose Bowl(that's kind of loose but its really the only way to make it work in the 2nd league). The 3rd league has fire power but expands across the country which is a negative but on the other hand a positive to ND in the ACC.

Again, I hold to the idea leagues shouldn't require them and are better served by a single set of standings and where teams lock in 3-4 rivals and play everyone else on an unequal basis.

SEC: add: Clemson, FSU, Ga. Tech, OU, Ok. St., KS (I think Miami or Louisville makes more sense but I don't think they meet the 2 rival requirement, don't know if I am wrong and either Miami or Louisville meet this requirement if they do choose one of those teams and KS. goes to the ACC.

B1G: add: Colorado, Az., Wash., Oregon, and either UCLA/Cal or USC/Stanford
***Rose Bowl is the 2 common opponent requirement and Colorado is the bridge.
***Does USC/Stanford want the B1G or ND/Texas in the ACC?

ACC: add: Texas, TT, TCU, ISU, WVU, ASU, Utah or BYU, and then either USC/Stanford or UCLA/CAL. IF Miami or Louisville was acceptable for the SEC KS. goes here.
****ACC lost 3 or 4 depending on whether the SEC has to take KS so with ND they need to add 8 or 9
****Does USC & Stanford want to pair themselves with the B1G and former teams such as Oregon & Wash. or do they want to play ND each year and a conference that includes Texas.
****Texas seems to want a rivalry with ND, this could allow for it. They don't want to go to the SEC and they won't go to the B1G without more partners than the B1G allows them to bring.
****This league definitely doesn't want to play everyone equally due to brands and geography.

I'll bet nobody has came up with this P3 before and I don't think I would have without JR's requirements.

So, to untangle that, this (with my divisional alignment):

SEC
West: Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas A&M
South: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson
Central: Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Florida St

B1G
West: Washington, Oregon, California, UCLA, Arizona
Central: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
North: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC
West: Stanford, USC, Arizona St, Utah, Texas Tech
South: Iowa St, Texas, TCU, Louisville, Miami
East: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
North: Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College

In the ACC you need to replace Wake Forest with ND.

I appreciate showing where the schools align geographically helps but I really think the league needs to go to one standings and only lock in 3 to 4 rivals and play other schools at different frequencies. Some are played 2 out of 4 years, some are played 2 out of 6 years and maybe some 2 out of 4 years. Especially the geography of the newly constructed ACC listed here. USC, Stanford & Texas would need to play ND every year to maximize value or possibly only USC & Texas every year & Stanford 2 out of 4 years.

This kind of scheduling would be better for all the leagues but it definitely would be better for the ACC.
01-02-2018 03:06 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 03:06 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 02:27 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 01:48 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  Ok I am going to throw out a P3 where the first 2 leagues have contiguous partners and each new team in the SEC has a history with at least 2 teams and the B1G does on the basis of the Rose Bowl(that's kind of loose but its really the only way to make it work in the 2nd league). The 3rd league has fire power but expands across the country which is a negative but on the other hand a positive to ND in the ACC.

Again, I hold to the idea leagues shouldn't require them and are better served by a single set of standings and where teams lock in 3-4 rivals and play everyone else on an unequal basis.

SEC: add: Clemson, FSU, Ga. Tech, OU, Ok. St., KS (I think Miami or Louisville makes more sense but I don't think they meet the 2 rival requirement, don't know if I am wrong and either Miami or Louisville meet this requirement if they do choose one of those teams and KS. goes to the ACC.

B1G: add: Colorado, Az., Wash., Oregon, and either UCLA/Cal or USC/Stanford
***Rose Bowl is the 2 common opponent requirement and Colorado is the bridge.
***Does USC/Stanford want the B1G or ND/Texas in the ACC?

ACC: add: Texas, TT, TCU, ISU, WVU, ASU, Utah or BYU, and then either USC/Stanford or UCLA/CAL. IF Miami or Louisville was acceptable for the SEC KS. goes here.
****ACC lost 3 or 4 depending on whether the SEC has to take KS so with ND they need to add 8 or 9
****Does USC & Stanford want to pair themselves with the B1G and former teams such as Oregon & Wash. or do they want to play ND each year and a conference that includes Texas.
****Texas seems to want a rivalry with ND, this could allow for it. They don't want to go to the SEC and they won't go to the B1G without more partners than the B1G allows them to bring.
****This league definitely doesn't want to play everyone equally due to brands and geography.

I'll bet nobody has came up with this P3 before and I don't think I would have without JR's requirements.

So, to untangle that, this (with my divisional alignment):

SEC
West: Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas A&M
South: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson
Central: Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Florida St

B1G
West: Washington, Oregon, California, UCLA, Arizona
Central: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
North: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC
West: Stanford, USC, Arizona St, Utah, Texas Tech
South: Iowa St, Texas, TCU, Louisville, Miami
East: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
North: Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College

In the ACC you need to replace Wake Forest with ND.

I appreciate showing where the schools align geographically helps but I really think the league needs to go to one standings and only lock in 3 to 4 rivals and play other schools at different frequencies. Some are played 2 out of 4 years, some are played 2 out of 6 years and maybe some 2 out of 4 years. Especially the geography of the newly constructed ACC listed here. USC, Stanford & Texas would need to play ND every year to maximize value or possibly only USC & Texas every year & Stanford 2 out of 4 years.

This kind of scheduling would be better for all the leagues but it definitely would be better for the ACC.

Oh ok, that makes more sense. I couldn't tell from the post if Notre Dame was maintaining its current status with the ACC. Here's a redoing of the ACC...

ACC
West: Stanford, USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Texas Tech
Arizona St, Utah
South: Arizona St, Utah, Iowa St, TCU, Louisville
East: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Miami, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
01-02-2018 04:21 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #30
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
I choose the format of 18 schools in 3 divisions. I also choose the option that I've maintained for quite sometime.

SEC:

West: Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Central: Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee


Tomorrow I will judge everyone else submissions an award Rep. After we do that we will have a vote on the best conference set ups and move on to the Big 10.
01-04-2018 02:59 AM
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