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I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
I think CFB is best served if we maintain 4 fairly equal leagues after realignment. The SEC & B1G have the brands they need so my realignment focused on maintaining the w:

SEC: current league and add Miami & TCU. This bolsters the SEC's presence in the two largest states in the conference and the two with the largest amount of recruits. It also gives them a presence in two of the biggest hotbeds for recruits Miami and Dallas/Fort Worth area. TCU by themselves doesn't carry the region but with A&M it helps. Does Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Georgia and maybe someday Tn. again really want two more behemoths like OU & Tx or FSU & Clemson to have to go through to get to the college football playoffs? Or would they rather increase the embarrassment of riches they have recruiting wise for the existing schools by adding presence in Miami and Dallas/Fort Worth. Of course these schools can be good from time to time again as well.

The SEC has flexibility with this addition. They could either put Miami in the East and TCU in the west which would be natural geographically or They could move Auburn to the East which JR has lobbied for to some degree and send both Miami and TCU to the west with the iron bowl obviously being protected. OR both could head to the west and have Missouri and Auburn flip flop.

B1G: VA & Kansas or NC St.. If it is Va. & KS it is two nice adds for basketball and academics but don't overlook adding the state of Virginia for recruiting after already having Maryland/DC presence with Maryland. If NC St. was good enough academically the B1G may find it is better off in the long run adding NC St. to continue to build on the Atlantic state recruiting. The Its not any secret to PSU's recent rise. the B1G has helped them with adding regional partners and keeping them in the East with Michigan & OSU. The payoff to the B1G has been some huge ratings games involving PSU also. The league could try and revive Nebraska by creating these two divisions and giving PSU regional partners & Nebraska and other teams in the West the league needs to be strong some access to needed recruiting grounds and Iowa or :
1: OSU, Mich, MSU, Ind, Ill., Northwestern, Minn. Purdue

2. PSU, Neb, Ia., KS or NC St., Wisky, Northwestern, Maryland, Va., NJ
***If it is NC St. instead of Kansas, the league could possibly put Wisky in the first division for Minn., Indiana or Purdue because #2 is balanced enough competitive wise with NC St. instead of Ks.

ACC: ND, WVU, Cincy, UCONN
All the ACC really wants is ND, WVU gives the Northern part of the ACC interesting rivalries.
***An interesting play here is if the B1G goes with NC St. to try and lure KS. instead of Cincy but I think KS would rather stay with Big 12 schools and get the opportunity of playing UCLA & Az. If they were geographically close to the ACC I think they might.
PAC: UT, TT, OU, OSU, ISU & KS or KSU
If the B1G takes NC St. instead of KS. obviously KS is the choice over KSU.
6 teams gives the PAC CST content.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2018 05:54 PM by Win5002.)
01-01-2018 04:43 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
For 16: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
For 18: 16 + Clemson, Florida St
For 20: 18 + Texas, Georgia Tech
01-01-2018 05:15 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
The rules didn't specify football, basketball, etc, so I am tempted to take a loophole and add Kansas based on Kansas versus Kentucky basketball. However, I'll play fair and stick with football.

I'll start with Clemson.

Clemson vs. South Carolina 115 matchups
Clemson vs. Georgia 64 matchups
Clemson vs. Auburn 51 matchups

Other noteable matchups: (Clemson vs. Alabama 17 matchups)
(Clemson vs. KY/FL 13 matchups)
(Clemson vs. TN 19 matchups)

North Carolina:
vs. Clemson 57 matchups
vs. Georgia 31 matchups
vs. South Carolina 57 matchups
vs. TN 32 matchups

Other noteable matchups (vs. Vandy 13 matchups)


I'll take OK and OK State
OK/State matchup 111 matchups
OK-Missouri 96 Matchups
OK-Texas A&M 31 matchups

(OK-Arkansas 15 matchups)

OK State-Arkansas 46 Matchups
OK State-Missouri 52 Matchups

(OK State-Texas A&M) 27 matchups


Source: http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/index.shtml
Fascinating site!

Note: While Texas plays Texas A&M 118 times, it has only played Missouri 24 times, and played no other SEC school that many times. Therefore Texas didn't qualify. Kansas also didn't qualify as its only school that it played frequently was Missouri at 120 and OK at 108. Also considered that was surprising: Baylor. Baylor vs. Arkansas 70 times, A&M 108. Decided against, but fits criteria.

So my adds are: OK/State, Clemson, UNC

3 divisions of 6:
East:UNC, Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina, Florida
Central: TN, Kentucky, Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss State, Alabama
West:LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, OK, State, Texas A&M

Play 5 in division, 1 permanent rival, rotate three out of division. This keeps matchups like Alabama/Auburn.

Other option: 9 in a division:
Alabama,Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Georgia, UNC, TN, KY, South Carolina

Texas A&M, Lsu, OK, State, Ark, Missouri, Ole Miss, Miss St, Vandy

Play 8 in division. No cross divisional games, with Vandy-TN an OOC game.

OK clearly adds content, and OK State has to come along to make it work. It could also add markets, depending on how you view its reach.

Clemson doesn't add markets but it has played alot of SEC teams alot of times and is a clear fit with us and adds content.

UNC surprised me. It has played Georgia/South Carolina, and TN alot. It adds a market and adds content if you consider basketball as relevant at all, and adds to our academics, scandal not withstanding.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2018 10:23 PM by Soobahk40050.)
01-01-2018 07:13 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #14
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
16- with OU, OSU:
Florida, SC, Georgia Kentucky
Ala, Tenn, Auburn, Vandy
MSU, A&M, LSU, Ole
OU, OSU, Mizzou, Ark

18 with OU, OSU, FSU, VT
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State
Auburn, Virginia Tech, Florida State
Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana State
Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Arkansas
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri

18 with OU, OSU, Texas, WVU:
Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri
Louisiana State, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee
Vanderbilt, Kentucky, West Virginia
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
01-02-2018 12:20 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #15
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-01-2018 07:13 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Note: While Texas plays Texas A&M 118 times, it has only played Missouri 24 times, and played no other SEC school that many times. Therefore Texas didn't qualify. Kansas also didn't qualify as its only school that it played frequently was Missouri at 120 and OK at 108. Also considered that was surprising: Baylor. Baylor vs. Arkansas 70 times, A&M 108. Decided against, but fits criteria.

Texas and Arkansas have played 78 times. They were in the same league for many years.

I do like your 4 though.
01-02-2018 01:35 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #16
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
12-18-18-16 alignment

PAC-no change (nobody wants to mess with their politics)

B1G at 18
adds Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, and Kansas State

ACC
adds West Virginia and Notre Dame

SEC at 18
adds Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech and TCU

Baylor moves to the American.
I would also swap Louisville and South Carolina (looks better on the map)
01-02-2018 05:36 AM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 01:35 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 07:13 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Note: While Texas plays Texas A&M 118 times, it has only played Missouri 24 times, and played no other SEC school that many times. Therefore Texas didn't qualify. Kansas also didn't qualify as its only school that it played frequently was Missouri at 120 and OK at 108. Also considered that was surprising: Baylor. Baylor vs. Arkansas 70 times, A&M 108. Decided against, but fits criteria.

Texas and Arkansas have played 78 times. They were in the same league for many years.

I do like your 4 though.

Thanks. Not sure why I missed that. That does make alot of sense.
01-02-2018 08:56 AM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
I went back and looked at each SEC teams top OOC games. Here is the breakdown. I went down to 20 this time.

Alabama: Georgia Tech 52, Southern Miss 43, Tulane 41
Arkansas: Texas 78, SMU 73, Tulsa 72, Baylor 70, TCU 70, Rice 67, OK St 46, Texas Tech 37
Auburn: Georgia Tech 92, Clemson 51, Tulane 37, Southern Miss 22
Florida: Fl St. 62, Miami 55, Georgia Tech 38, Tulane 21
Georgia: GT 112, Clemson 64, North Carolina 31, Tulane 25
KY: Indiana 36, Cincy 33, Louisville 30, GT 20, West Virginia 20
LSU: Tulane 98, Rice 55, Lousiana-Lafayette 22
Miss: Tulane 71, Southern Miss 24, Ark St 23
Miss St: Tulane 58, Memphis 44, Southern Miss 29
Missouri: Kansas 120, Iowa St 104, Nebraska 104, Kansas St 97, OK 76, Colorado 75, Ok St 52, Ill 24, Texas 24, SMU 23
South Carolina: Clemson 115, NC State 58, UNC 57, Wake 56, Duke 44, Virginia 34, Maryland 27, GT 21, VT 20
TN: Georgia Tech 44, UNC 32, Duke 29, Memphis 23
Texas A&M: Texas 118, Baylor 108, TCU 92, Rice 82, SMU 81, Texas Tech 70, Houston 34, OK 31, OK State 27
Vandy: Tulane 48, GT 38, Virginia

So we should invite Tulane and Southern Miss. But take away the G5 teams:

Alabama: Georgia Tech
Arkansas: Texas, Baylor, TCU, OK St, Texas Tech
Auburn: Georgia Tech, Clemson
Florida: Fl St., Miami, Georgia Tech,
Georgia: GT, Clemson, North Carolina,
KY: Indiana, Louisville, GT, West Virginia
LSU: N/A
Miss: N/A
Miss St: N/A
Missouri: Kansas, Iowa St, Nebraska, Kansas St, OK, Colorado, Ok St, Ill, Texas
South Carolina: Clemson, NC State, UNC, Wake, Duke, Virginia, Maryland, GT, VT
TN: Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke
Texas A&M: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, OK, OK State
Vandy: GT, Virginia

Teams by number of SEC "familiar foes"
Georgia Tech: 8
Texas: 3
Baylor: 2
TCU: 2
OK State: 2
Texas Tech:2
Clemson: 3
UNC: 3
OK: 2
Duke: 2
Virginia: 2

Georgia Tech being the top by far is no surprise since they used to be in conference and sit squarely in our territory.

Take away Baylor and you have 10 candidates for a maximum 6 spots.
Eastern teams: GT, Clemson, UNC, Duke, Virginia
West: OK, State, TCU, Texas, Tech

I tried to come up with a 20 (and even a 24) team league based on these candidates, but it was a mess in the divisions - Florida in a division with Texas A&M and Arkansas so that Texas would be in a different division than A&M and so that Auburn/Alabama and Georgia/Tech could be the same divisions. So I'll just keep my original breakdown and keep it at 18. That does leave out Tech as I chose Clemson and UNC but I can make the case for that based on new markets (UNC) and content (Clemson football/UNC basketball).

A 21 team league might work, but is out of bounds for this exercise:
East: UNC, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, GT, Florida, Auburn
Central: TN, KY, Vandy, Miss, Miss St, Alabama, LSU
West: Missouri, Texas A&M, Ark, Texas, Tech, OK, OK State
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 12:12 PM by Soobahk40050.)
01-02-2018 10:19 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
I tried going for 24 in 3 conferences (PAC, B1G, SEC) - tougher than it sounds. It is likely a no-go for several reasons:

1) I ended up moving Nebraska, Maryland, and Missouri to different conferences. I did that for the sake of contiguity and rivalries.
2) The SEC ended up with more non-power schools than the PAC or B1G which was only due to geography and academics.
3) Notre Dame is in the B1G due to Big East rivals.
4) BYU is in the PAC due to rivals and geography.

Trying to keep rivals, state contiguity, academic requirements, and other stipulations is more difficult than it seems which is why we'll likely never have even conferences.

Here's what I ended up with:

PAC
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Utah, BYU
South: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
East: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa St, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
North: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Connecticut
East: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Temple
South: Virginia Tech, North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Florida St, Miami

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama
South: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
North: Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, Auburn
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia
01-02-2018 11:30 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #20
RE: I Have a New Challenging Exercise for You.....
(01-02-2018 11:30 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I tried going for 24 in 3 conferences (PAC, B1G, SEC) - tougher than it sounds. It is likely a no-go for several reasons:

1) I ended up moving Nebraska, Maryland, and Missouri to different conferences. I did that for the sake of contiguity and rivalries.
2) The SEC ended up with more non-power schools than the PAC or B1G which was only due to geography and academics.
3) Notre Dame is in the B1G due to Big East rivals.
4) BYU is in the PAC due to rivals and geography.

Trying to keep rivals, state contiguity, academic requirements, and other stipulations is more difficult than it seems which is why we'll likely never have even conferences.

Here's what I ended up with:

PAC
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Utah, BYU
South: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
East: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa St, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
North: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Connecticut
East: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Temple
South: Virginia Tech, North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Florida St, Miami

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama
South: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
North: Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, Auburn
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia

1. Stick to the exercise in this thread. The rules were no larger than 20.

2. The SEC East in your alignment would never be.

3. The Georgia State Lawmakers want Tech in the SEC if they are not in the ACC.

4. The SEC will never allow Florida State to move to the Big 10. They will make the Nole's an offer to sweet to leave if it ever comes to that. And the only reason F.S.U. is not in the SEC already is because of ESPN and in the age of streaming their control over conference selections by virtue of the market model of payout is all but dead. Besides Tech will want to go where Duke and North Carolina go.

5. The 3 x 20 with 4 divisions of 5 is the only real possibility if expansion gets that large. All 3 surviving conferences get teams of value and the lowest of the P5 gets cut.
01-02-2018 11:57 AM
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