As another poster said, people get obsessed with football, a conference needs to be well rounded. The following would be awesome in basketball and baseball. Full round robin in basketball, top two teams in football play in the championship game. Only One protected rivalry game in football so that you can play every team at least 7 times in 10 years.

New SWC

USM
WKU
La Tech
UL
Arkansas State
Rice
Missouri State
Texas State
UTSA
UTEP
NMSU

(12-30-2017 03:48 PM)TTT Wrote:  I could care less about ODU.

Add WKU, MTSU, Marshall, and Troy and I'm a happy camper.

Haaaaaaard pass on MT playimg in this southwest conference.

From my post on the other thread regarding this topic...

Not that it would ever happen, but this line-up would look nice to me.

Reformed SWC
Rice (C-USA- former SWC member since 1915)
SMU (AAC- former SWC member 1918)
Houston (AAC- former SWC member 1972)
North Texas (C-USA)
UTSA (C-USA)
Memphis (AAC)
LA Tech (C-USA)
Southern Miss (C-USA)
Arkansas State (Sun Belt)

8 of those 9 teams finished bowl eligible this past season. I think that could be a very strong conference with some good regional rivalries.

You can see where these programs are located in relation to each other.

In 30 months the AAC, MWC, BYU, and Sun Belt deals expire and I believe CUSA's deal with BeIN expires as well.

If anything is going to happen before the CFP contract expires I figure it happens in the next 36 months or so either in the lead up to the new TV deals or after reality hits of what TV is and is not willing to pay a premium for (which is still speculation at this point).

(12-31-2017 01:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Reformed SWC
Rice (C-USA- former SWC member since 1915)
SMU (AAC- former SWC member 1918)
Houston (AAC- former SWC member 1972)
North Texas (C-USA)
UTSA (C-USA)
Memphis (AAC)
LA Tech (C-USA)
Southern Miss (C-USA)
Arkansas State (Sun Belt)

Drop Memphis and add UTEP, TSU, and NMSU for regionality (Texas-centric), and that's a great nSWC, IMHO. Maybe Tulsa too/instead.

A good balance to the MWC out west, and the AAC out east.

UTEP will not be part of this conference because of New Mexico State.

New Mexico State
Texas State
West Texas A&M
North Texas
Rice
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Central Oklahoma
Missouri State
Arkansas State
UTSA
La. Tech

UTEP will go to MWC before they join a conference with new Mexico State. UTEP is blocking them.

(12-31-2017 01:24 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 01:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Reformed SWC
Rice (C-USA- former SWC member since 1915)
SMU (AAC- former SWC member 1918)
Houston (AAC- former SWC member 1972)
North Texas (C-USA)
UTSA (C-USA)
Memphis (AAC)
LA Tech (C-USA)
Southern Miss (C-USA)
Arkansas State (Sun Belt)

Drop Memphis and add UTEP, TSU, and NMSU for regionality (Texas-centric), and that's a great nSWC, IMHO. Maybe Tulsa too/instead.

A good balance to the MWC out west, and the AAC out east.

That would make for a weaker conference and also spread it out more. For travel purposes the combination of Memphis, LA Tech, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State create a similar triangle of programs to what Texas would have between Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Also the old SWC was never larger then 9 teams. I think it is best to keep this version at the same number. Adding the programs you mentioned wouldn't do anything to increase revenue and only make it difficult to separate teams into divisions.

I think my original configuration above is the only logical possibility from a regional, financial, and competitive standpoint, for ever reforming something like the old SWC, if the bottom has truly fallen out on G5 the media revenue.

Not sure that I see the allure of trying to re-create the old SWC out of teams currently in the G5. Clearly, there would be none for Houston and SMU who would have to take a major step backward. As for Rice, since they reached their peak in 1961 with a 7-4-1 record, a #17 ranking and a Bluebonnet Bowl appearance (a loss, essentially at home) they won fewer than 30% of their games before the SWC disbanded. They had a total of three winning seasons (each with 6 wins) during that 34 year stretch.

The SWC is dead. Let it rest in peace.

(12-31-2017 03:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 01:24 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 01:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Reformed SWC
Rice (C-USA- former SWC member since 1915)
SMU (AAC- former SWC member 1918)
Houston (AAC- former SWC member 1972)
North Texas (C-USA)
UTSA (C-USA)
Memphis (AAC)
LA Tech (C-USA)
Southern Miss (C-USA)
Arkansas State (Sun Belt)

Drop Memphis and add UTEP, TSU, and NMSU for regionality (Texas-centric), and that's a great nSWC, IMHO. Maybe Tulsa too/instead.

A good balance to the MWC out west, and the AAC out east.

That would make for a weaker conference and also spread it out more. For travel purposes the combination of Memphis, LA Tech, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State create a similar triangle of programs to what Texas would have between Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Also the old SWC was never larger then 9 teams. I think it is best to keep this version at the same number. Adding the programs you mentioned wouldn't do anything to increase revenue and only make it difficult to separate teams into divisions.

I think my original configuration above is the only logical possibility from a regional, financial, and competitive standpoint, for ever reforming something like the old SWC, if the bottom has truly fallen out on G5 the media revenue.

Lets assume every network offers the AAC 50 cents and bag of potatoe chips for the next 10 years during the up coming negotiations. Lets assume the same thing happens to all the G5 and they are all told thier games will only be on some sort of streaming platform if they accept any of these network .50 cent deals.

Under that scenario, I'd assume every G5 would be looking to trim travel costs, increase ticket sales, and generate more in stadium income. TV markets and footprint would be irrelevant. Basketball credits would probably have some importance.

Under that scenario what you are proposing isnt bad. You can play around here or there with the membership--but what your suggesting would probably be along the lnes of what would happen. Tulsa and Texas St would each be worth considering as members too. Whoever your final 9-12 member are, I'd suggest adding Wichita St as a basketball only school.

(12-31-2017 03:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  Not sure that I see the allure of trying to re-create the old SWC out of teams currently in the G5. Clearly, there would be none for Houston and SMU who would have to take a major step backward. As for Rice, since they reached their peak in 1961 with a 7-4-1 record, a #17 ranking and a Bluebonnet Bowl appearance (a loss, essentially at home) they won fewer than 30% of their games before the SWC disbanded. They had a total of three winning seasons (each with 6 wins) during that 34 year stretch.

The SWC is dead. Let it rest in peace.

There would be none unless the AAC TV deal were to completely unravel.

(12-31-2017 03:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I think my original configuration above is the only logical possibility from a regional, financial, and competitive standpoint, for ever reforming something like the old SWC, if the bottom has truly fallen out on G5 the media revenue.

Aye there is the question.

I don't know that the CUSA deal is as enlightening as many assume. CUSA has only five schools that were part of the negotiations for the last CUSA deal.

My suspicion is that we are still early in a transitional era and in general G5 isn't going to be a strong buy in the carriage fee economy with carriage fee revenue dropping but we aren't at the point where one can maximize revenue in the likely approaching viewer based economy.

The conferences are going to have to make a decision whether to lock long at what might be a discount or may turn out to be a premium or go with shorter deals hoping to profit down the road.

(12-31-2017 03:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 03:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 01:24 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(12-31-2017 01:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Reformed SWC
Rice (C-USA- former SWC member since 1915)
SMU (AAC- former SWC member 1918)
Houston (AAC- former SWC member 1972)
North Texas (C-USA)
UTSA (C-USA)
Memphis (AAC)
LA Tech (C-USA)
Southern Miss (C-USA)
Arkansas State (Sun Belt)

Drop Memphis and add UTEP, TSU, and NMSU for regionality (Texas-centric), and that's a great nSWC, IMHO. Maybe Tulsa too/instead.

A good balance to the MWC out west, and the AAC out east.

That would make for a weaker conference and also spread it out more. For travel purposes the combination of Memphis, LA Tech, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State create a similar triangle of programs to what Texas would have between Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Also the old SWC was never larger then 9 teams. I think it is best to keep this version at the same number. Adding the programs you mentioned wouldn't do anything to increase revenue and only make it difficult to separate teams into divisions.

I think my original configuration above is the only logical possibility from a regional, financial, and competitive standpoint, for ever reforming something like the old SWC, if the bottom has truly fallen out on G5 the media revenue.

Lets assume every network offers the AAC 50 cents and bag of potatoe chips for the next 10 years during the up coming negotiations. Lets assume the same thing happens to all the G5 and they are all told thier games will only be on some sort of streaming platform if they accept any of these network .50 cent deals.

Under that scenario, I'd assume every G5 would be looking to trim travel costs, increase ticket sales, and generate more in stadium income. TV markets and footprint would be irrelevant. Basketball credits would probably have some importance.

Under that scenario what you are proposing isnt bad. You can play around here or there with the membership--but what your suggesting would probably be along the lnes of what would happen. Tulsa and Texas St would each be worth considering as members too. Whoever your final 9-12 member are, I'd suggest adding Wichita St as a basketball only school.

*I like UTEP for their basketball history, but considering their lone addition would double the spread of the conference and increase travel for all the other sports, it just doesn't seem worth it.

*Texas State would only add a mouth to feed. They are a mess. My idea behind this conference was to bring together the G5 programs that were actually in the SWC and add regional programs that are winning and showing real commitment to continue winning. Programs that are not winning would only bring a mouth to feed. I'd like it to be a conference where every program is committed to elevating their athletics. I think that is how a conference gets stronger.

*Tulsa has historically been able to field competitive teams, but the problem is they are small with limited growth potential and I don't see two other programs worth adding with them to get the conference to 12.

Like I said right now these 9 regional programs appear to be headed in a common direction with respect to success and growth. If these teams were an actual conference their combined record would have been 61-50 this season, and that's with Rice's 1-11 season. That would be the best over record of any G5 this season. If there were an airport meeting, this group would made sense.

But, like I said, I'm very happy in C-USA. This is just an off-season hypothetical discussion.

(12-30-2017 03:22 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  Hate it that New Mexico State has to leave the SBC and try to go it alone as an independent. And it was fitting that they won their bowl game against Utah State. How about regionalizing CUSA by creating a New Southwest Conference?

New Mexico State
Texas State
Rice
UTEP
Arkansas State
North Texas
Louisiana Tech
UAB
Southern Miss
ULL (La Tech will just have to swallow their pride)

Similar subject matter discussed on another discussion thread
The WAC's Next Move
http://csnbbs.com/thread-835371-post-148...id14873581

Revised Conference USA = Conference USA West + Sunbelt Conference West

Conference USA (revised)
CUSA West
N TX
Rice
UTEP
UTSA
TX St
AR St

CUSA East
LA Tech
Lousiana
Lousiana-Monroe
USM
UAB
S. AL

Rebrand revised CUSA into new Southwest Conference.
Revised CUSA --> new SWC

As I've said before, with any sort of C-USA/SBC reshuffle you either need total agreement or an airport meeting of disenlightened members. The first is pretty much a nonstarter which means you would need to identify schools who are unhappy with the current set up. The following are reasons an institution might be unhappy:

Travel costs
Revenue
Academic profile of their conference mates
Desire to be in a conference with one or more other schools
Unhappy with quality of football product
Unhappy with quality of basketball product
Size of Conference

The eastern 7 could form that disgruntled core.
In the west I think finding schools who are both unhappy and have similar goals is trickier. Rice and UTEP have expressed interest in the MWC as the solution to their problems. UAB and USM might not like their current situation but would they really want UTEP, and the travel that goes with them, in a new league centered on their needs.

(01-01-2018 10:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  As I've said before, with any sort of C-USA/SBC reshuffle you either need total agreement or an airport meeting of disenlightened members. The first is pretty much a nonstarter which means you would need to identify schools who are unhappy with the current set up. The following are reasons an institution might be unhappy:

Travel costs
Revenue
Academic profile of their conference mates
Desire to be in a conference with one or more other schools
Unhappy with quality of football product
Unhappy with quality of basketball product
Size of Conference

The eastern 7 could form that disgruntled core.
In the west I think finding schools who are both unhappy and have similar goals is trickier. Rice and UTEP have expressed interest in the MWC as the solution to their problems. UAB and USM might not like their current situation but would they really want UTEP, and the travel that goes with them, in a new league centered on their needs.

I find it interesting that ODU, MTSU have been rather vocal about affiliation (seriously even when people don't go on the record it is always worth noting that some newspapers magically get information no one else has such as the reporting on the TV numbers).

If CUSA East wanted to defect as a group things can be somewhat simpler.

UAB if anything is brewing there it isn't becoming public.
USM has been a point of several articles but the media reporting has been different (ie. the nice neat east/west split) USM may be disgruntled but isn't leaking hard info or the paper is just picking up on an underlying vibe from the school and fans and spitballing what it might look like if USM were to act.

USM and UAB are the schools one would assume would be most likely to be in a defection mood. They are very close to the center of the conference but well east of the division mid-point and they are the only remaining charter members and 2005 to 2012 were in the same division as Marshall and different division from UTEP and Rice which is now flipped.

ODU and MTSU being leak points is less understandable. They presumably have a division that looks mostly like what they want and only traveling for cross-over games. I don't buy that UAB is important to them. Remember when the commissioner floated going to 16 the rumor mill said the targets were Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette to permit UAB to shift east and the eastern talk was opposition unless an eastern school was included (JMU). UAB would be in the east if the expansion hadn't been torpedoed

(12-31-2017 08:38 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(12-30-2017 03:22 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  Hate it that New Mexico State has to leave the SBC and try to go it alone as an independent. And it was fitting that they won their bowl game against Utah State. How about regionalizing CUSA by creating a New Southwest Conference?

New Mexico State
Texas State
Rice
UTEP
Arkansas State
North Texas
Louisiana Tech
UAB
Southern Miss
ULL (La Tech will just have to swallow their pride)

Similar subject matter discussed on another discussion thread
The WAC's Next Move
http://csnbbs.com/thread-835371-post-148...id14873581

Revised Conference USA = Conference USA West + Sunbelt Conference West

Conference USA (revised)
CUSA West
N TX
Rice
UTEP
UTSA
TX St
AR St

CUSA East
LA Tech
Lousiana
Lousiana-Monroe
USM
UAB
S. AL

Rebrand revised CUSA into new Southwest Conference.
Revised CUSA --> new SWC

I don't think this will work because the bulk of the proposed teams, for various reasons, would not accept adding the teams in bold.

(01-01-2018 03:49 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I don't think this will work because the bulk of the proposed teams, for various reasons, would not accept adding the teams in bold.

I kind of had something similar:

CUSA
North
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte
MTSU
WKU
Appalachian State

South
Coastal
Georgia Southern
GaSt
FAU
FIU
Troy

SunBelt
East
UAB
USA
USM
ASU
ULL
ULM

West
LaTech
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
Rice

Now, one could argue to flip UAB and Troy or juggle some teams from north to south/east to west... This would provide pretty good fb and bb conferences and condense the divisions as much as possible while not giving one conference more than the other.

Now, if you were just going to do one conference (the creme de la creme of the two conferences[/u]) and to hell with everyone else? Wonder what THAT would look like?

(01-02-2018 11:36 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 03:49 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I don't think this will work because the bulk of the proposed teams, for various reasons, would not accept adding the teams in bold.

I kind of had something similar:

CUSA
North
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte
MTSU
WKU
Appalachian State

South
Coastal
Georgia Southern
GaSt
FAU
FIU
Troy

SunBelt
East
UAB
USA
USM
ASU
ULL
ULM

West
LaTech
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
Rice

Now, one could argue to flip UAB and Troy or juggle some teams from north to south/east to west... This would provide pretty good fb and bb conferences and condense the divisions as much as possible while not giving one conference more than the other.

Now, if you were just going to do one conference (the creme de la creme of the two conferences[/u]) and to hell with everyone else? Wonder what THAT would look like?

These types of realignment scenarios will never work because their are teams (add no value, not competitive, lack investment in athletics, poor facilities,...) in the east and west that neither side wants, and you can't just kick them to the curb.

No change is possible until contracts are due to be renewed (Playoff, media, bowl ties,...).

(01-02-2018 12:24 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 11:36 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 03:49 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I don't think this will work because the bulk of the proposed teams, for various reasons, would not accept adding the teams in bold.

I kind of had something similar:

CUSA
North
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte
MTSU
WKU
Appalachian State

South
Coastal
Georgia Southern
GaSt
FAU
FIU
Troy

SunBelt
East
UAB
USA
USM
ASU
ULL
ULM

West
LaTech
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
Rice

Now, one could argue to flip UAB and Troy or juggle some teams from north to south/east to west... This would provide pretty good fb and bb conferences and condense the divisions as much as possible while not giving one conference more than the other.

Now, if you were just going to do one conference (the creme de la creme of the two conferences[/u]) and to hell with everyone else? Wonder what THAT would look like?

These types of realignment scenarios will never work because their are teams (add no value, not competitive, lack investment in athletics, poor facilities,...) in the east and west that neither side wants, and you can't just kick them to the curb.

No change is possible until contracts are due to be renewed (Playoff, media, bowl ties,...).

Well, we do have to look at these schools as well.

Lamar
Sam Houston State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Jacksonville State
Eastern Kentucky
Chattanooga
James Madison
Delaware
Youngstown State
Stony Brook

All could make a move into the realignment conversations. We might see Florida A&M to finally make the move to FBS away from the MEAC since they lost 2 schools in a couple of years. Savannah State have not yet been approved to rejoin D2. They have to be invited by a conference first which they have not yet got.

David St.--"Well, we do have to look at these schools as well." [see list]






NOT SO. There are PLENTY of independents and unhappy schools in G5 to supply any scenario.