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How is your own side full of crap?
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #1
How is your own side full of crap?
This should be a good starter to get things going.

I'm a libertarian. And I detest that pragmatism is seen as a four letter word in the Libertarian Party. It sounds bizarre, but for the libertarians to make progress they must first accept small gains as the currency of politics for decades. This means deliberately acting against your own principles in the short term for long term gain. And libertarians find that awfully difficult to do. Democrats, OTOH, are outstanding at it. They advance big government typically not by big leaps and bounds preferring instead to build it up with 1,000 little bureaucratic increases.
12-20-2017 01:12 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
I think of myself as a pragmatic libertarian, so I agree 100% with GTS.

A lot of people on here think of me as a right-winger, therefore republican. I would offer pretty much the same criticism of republicans. The problem with the religious right is that they are unwilling to make any compromises, and compromises are how things get done in a democracy. Roy Moore to me is what's wrong with republicans, taken to the extreme. And taking it to the extreme makes us vulnerable to the collectivist/redistributionist far left. I think too many republicans really don't understand what they are doing. They just see somebody like GWB who wore a cowboy hat and talked about Jesus a lot, and don't really care that he wasn't much of a conservative otherwise. When republicans are okay with a huge budget deficit, they lose me. I still think when republicans regained the house in 2011 they should immediately have passed Bismarck health care to replace Obama care, a guaranteed basic income, and either Bowles-Simpson or Domenici-Rivlin, or some combination of the best of both. That would have established them immediately as caring about the poor and also wanting to balance the budget and grow the economy. But they didn't. And they pretty much lost me when they didn't.
12-20-2017 01:20 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #3
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
The GOP makes promises like repealing Obamacare but lacks the guts to actually go through with it.
(This post was last modified: 12-20-2017 01:37 PM by Kaplony.)
12-20-2017 01:22 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #4
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
I'm a conservatarian, aka a Tea Partier. My own side is full of crap in this way: We don't have enough backbone to do what's right when needed. We all squawk about wanting term limits for members of Congress, but when it comes down to it, we end up voting for the same idiots (or kind of idiots, in some cases) who won't do anything about it. We continuously vote for those who care more about the status of being a member of Congress than actually doing the work of the people they were chosen to represent. Therefore, we can be duped pretty easily as long as someone says the right words at the right time with no intention of following through on said words.

Basically, what you said, GTS.
12-20-2017 01:23 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
I don't think of myself as being on a specific side, though my views align well with a conservative/libertarian POV. That said, it seems that the biggest BS I see is hypocrisy. For example, the national debt. It does not seem to matter which party controls the white house, senate or house - the national debt continues to climb. We see a ton of deficit hawks...when they are members of the party holding the minority position in both chambers and/or white house. Once power is gained, it seems that they conveniently "forget" their "come to Jesus" moment.
12-20-2017 01:32 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #6
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
I'm conservative fiscally and lean left socially. Unsure what side that puts me on, but I think a good amount feel the way I do. Sadly, we don't make enough noise for either side that serves to want to align with us.
12-20-2017 01:47 PM
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UofMstateU Online
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Post: #7
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
Many republicans and conservatives couldnt handle the identity politics war thrown at them. They would get nervous, cave, apologize, etc.

Tell an illegal they would have to leave the country and re-enter legally? Oh the horror, we would lose the hispanic vote!
12-20-2017 01:49 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #8
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
The Constitution refers to “the people.” It is not referring to a collective right held and administered by federal, state or local authorities. It is referring to a right held directly by individuals.

Because of this I can't for the life of me understand conservatives that want to use the force of the State to negatively impact other Americans.

As a few examples: Gay marriage? Not a State issue, let them marry. And let a church/bakery/florist etc say no to hosting a gay wedding. Abortion? Not a State issue. Abortion should be safe, legal are rare between a women and her doctor. Morally abhorrent to me, but not to be enforced pro or con at the threat of an armed government agent.

On the flip side, I don't want to take away your Bible, Koran or Torah. Religious people should have the right to say "no" or non-violently protest gay marriage and abortion without fear of the State.

Preference is a matter of one’s own conscience, and is covered by the First Amendment, along with Catholics who believe Jesuit rule in the White House would be peachy, Democrats who advocate a Parliament, Sanders supporters who want to abolish the Electoral College, and anarcho-libertarians who’d like to close down the entire government.

Are the above nutso? Maybe. Maybe even probably. But these are not concerns of the government unless they become violent.

Small government means small government. Not big Armed Republican government.
12-20-2017 01:57 PM
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Eagle4Christ Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
At its core, my beef is how political leaders tend to value first principles in politics and culture.

First principles are the things we assume that stand alone--they are unproven and unprovable, because they inform our understanding of what can be proved, what the idea of "proof" itself means, etc.

My epistemology is post-positivist and my religion is Christian. So, I (try to) start my political calculations with the assumption that there are best actions, worst actions (both of which are unlikely to be practical), and a range of possible actions in between the extremes. Politics being the art of the possible, I am generally happy with any action that moves the needle in the better direction...provided we do not sell out our first principles to do so. In this way, the first principles of moral behavior and disciplined thought shape my understanding of politics.

There are far too many politicians on my side of the aisle who see first principles as variables to be exploited for pragmatic gain, rather than an unassailable foundation that must not be ignored. They espouse similar ends to mine and declare allegiance to those first principles I revere but--when the crisis comes--cast aside the latter in pursuit of the former. They miss the forest for the trees, for the ends do not justify the means.
(This post was last modified: 12-20-2017 02:24 PM by Eagle4Christ.)
12-20-2017 02:11 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: How is your own side full of crap?
As a small-L libertarian, I feel the same as Owl#s and GTS. It's ok to have a belief system, but if you ever want to get anything done you have to take some small victories. Most of the time it's going to be a choice between what you don't like and what you definitely don't like. Continuously choosing not to participate in the debate between those two things pushes us further and further down the credibility pile.
12-20-2017 02:17 PM
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