(12-20-2017 03:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 02:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  MWC has been pretty big on the Saturday emphasis.

Remember they ditched ESPN for CSTV (now CBSSN) to avoid weeknights.

When you rely on people to do more than drive across town to watch you play, you can't subject them to too many weeknight games.

Or late-night games, even on Saturday. More than half of the MWC teams are in the situation of expecting a large percentage of their season-ticket holders to travel from at least 90 minutes away. CBSSN sets some MWC games to kick off at 8:30 pm local time. That means a game that ends around midnight, and getting home around 2 am (or later if your drive is even longer). If you're a season ticket holder, how much of that are you going to put up with before you don't renew your season tickets? If the athletic department is counting on a lot of fans to drive in from a long way away and purchase individual tickets for big games, how many ticket sales do they lose when the game kicks off at 8:30 pm, which was the game time for Colorado State's home game vs. Boise in November?

And having CBSSN do this to you, when they pay very little for the TV rights and their TV audiences are so low that they don't even subscribe to the Nielsen rating service, that's just pouring salt in the wound.

Yep...ditto.
Better game times will lead to better attendance which in turn provides more revenue than a paltry TV payout. Also, this does effect basketball and not just football.

(12-20-2017 04:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 03:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 02:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  MWC has been pretty big on the Saturday emphasis.

Remember they ditched ESPN for CSTV (now CBSSN) to avoid weeknights.

When you rely on people to do more than drive across town to watch you play, you can't subject them to too many weeknight games.

Or late-night games, even on Saturday. More than half of the MWC teams are in the situation of expecting a large percentage of their season-ticket holders to travel from at least 90 minutes away. CBSSN sets some MWC games to kick off at 8:30 pm local time. That means a game that ends around midnight, and getting home around 2 am (or later if your drive is even longer). If you're a season ticket holder, how much of that are you going to put up with before you don't renew your season tickets? If the athletic department is counting on a lot of fans to drive in from a long way away and purchase individual tickets for big games, how many ticket sales do they lose when the game kicks off at 8:30 pm, which was the game time for Colorado State's home game vs. Boise in November?

And having CBSSN do this to you, when they pay very little for the TV rights and their TV audiences are so low that they don't even subscribe to the Nielsen rating service, that's just pouring salt in the wound.

I think the MW did the math on eroding "in stadium" revenue and dont see much upside at the current ESPN/CBS-Sports payout--esepcially with the MW Digital Network starting to be profitable. I dont think Stadium will be a big part of the MW picture. Remember, to the best of my knowledge Stadium pays nothing (or close to nothing) for TV rights. I dont think Stadium's current model can be profitable if they are paying much for content.

I think the MW is going end up being the anti-AAC in the next negotiatiin round. The AAC will play anywhere and anytime to get a better deal. Their solid ratings and flexibility will make them a popular dance partner in the next TV negotiations.

The MW is going to do just the opposite of the AAC and will end up with a sort of hybrid deal. They are going to take back control on their start times by having the vast majority of their games on the subscription MW Network. I think they believe they cant keep abusing thier ticket buying fans and need to rebuild that base to hit the "in stadium" revenue back to where it needs to be. Thus, they will increase by significantly reducing the supply of MW games available and by severely limiting the number of late night windows they will play.


The MW will offer a 2-game a week premium package with one game at a good agreeable kick time for MW schools and one game in a late window. Those late window games will be distributed equally among MW teams (one each) so--there will only be 12 late start games sold for the entire season. No single team will have to deal with more than one late window game per year (I thnk ESPN buys this package). If the networks balk or wont pay what the MW wants, the MW will just go all digital. Once that premium plan is sold--a smaller plan with games only at kick times agreeable to MW schools will be offered. Thats probably snapped up by CBS-Sports and probably doesnt bring a lot--but its found money if you were willing to go all digital anyway and it increases exposure.

I think the MW could come out ahead monetarily doing something like that. The question is--do they lose too much on the exposure front by having so many games only on digital platforms? If they do, one adjustment that could tweak the exposure level upward would be to make the MWDN a non-subscription service (like it is now) and let Stadium mirror the games on their OTA-Syndicated Network. If they do this, they could add a MWDN commerical to every televised game to drive more viewership to the new digital network.

I could see this working out for the MW if they are smart and the MWDN has the capacity to handle all the games it would need to televise.

MWC gets something like $1.8 million per team. Give that up for less exposure and stay home and you can travel to Bama and get paid $1.8 million if you need the cash.

Now with premium seating being all the rage, losing a suite buyer or a loge box or club seat buyer is much more expensive than losing Joe out in the stands. 2000 premium seats will generate more revenue (if you can sell them) than any G5 TV contract is making.

And what will happen when the internet providers/cable companies put the squeeze on streamers (net neutrality overturn)?

(12-20-2017 05:40 PM)westwolf Wrote:  And what will happen when the internet providers/cable companies put the squeeze on streamers (net neutrality overturn)?

LOL...there isn't going to be any. Did you think the Internet only started in 2015?

The cool thing about going digital is then you can work with widely available local affiliates to get games being streamed nationally available on traditional TV locally

The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

(12-20-2017 07:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

Even more so when the Pac-12 is trying to reduce the number of late window games they play as well.

(12-20-2017 07:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

We didn't invest in our digital network to bluff.

I have been complaining about games starting late for a long time. I believe 7:30 local should be the latest any game to start. Living in the Mountain Time Zone, there have been many times I'm falling asleep by halftime of a MW or Pac-12 game. Start times of 8:30-9:00PM are problematic. Games don't end until after midnight and what about a lightning delay. There is a high frequency of lightning here at USAFA, the San Diego State game had an 88 minute delay after a 5:00 kickoff. In 2011, Oklahoma State at Tulsa was scheduled to start at 9:10CT but finally kicked off at a quarter past midnight and ended after 3:30 in the morning. I don't know what the weather was during the day but if the game had a normal start time they might have had a chance to finish before the severe weather arrived. It's ridiculous to schedule starts so late. A family can't go; why spend $20 (or whatever the cost) on a ticket when the kids are sleeping through the game, they can sleep at home for free. More people in the stands means more real fans who could become donors.

(12-20-2017 08:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 07:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

We didn't invest in our digital network to bluff.

You mean the the MWC network the original MWC schools set up, or you’ve invested further since then? Also, I’d be shocked if MWC newbies like San Jose St have invested the millions needed for digital like say the front range schools and UNLV and SDSU have.

(12-20-2017 09:59 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 08:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 07:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

We didn't invest in our digital network to bluff.

You mean the the MWC network the original MWC schools set up, or you’ve invested further since then? Also, I’d be shocked if MWC newbies like San Jose St have invested the millions needed for digital like say the front range schools and UNLV and SDSU have.

Not the mtn.
The digital network we started in 2013. Conference gave $1 million in help to each school for broadcasting equipment...including SJSU. The network has been strong getting stronger each year.

It's fun hearing about west coasters complaining about late starts

(12-20-2017 10:39 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It's fun hearing about west coasters complaining about late starts

I was complaining about late starts when I lived in the Central Time Zone. You're right, it is funny for an east coaster but it really makes a statement when people on the west side complain.

with both the mwc and the pac rebelling against late starts and week night evening games it puts the networks in a bind for content. I love the refocus on the fans going to the game and the game day atmosphere. in the long run that is how you maintain a fan base and healthy sports programs.

people from the east often dont understand the distances traveled in the more sparsley populated west for fans.

(12-21-2017 12:44 AM)billings Wrote:  with both the mwc and the pac rebelling against late starts and week night evening games it puts the networks in a bind for content. I love the refocus on the fans going to the game and the game day atmosphere. in the long run that is how you maintain a fan base and healthy sports programs.

people from the east often dont understand the distances traveled in the more sparsley populated west for fans.

Its not an unreasonable strategy if the TV money is going to be so paltry. The fact that it was a big event with a unique atmosphere is how college football became so telegenic. If your event has lots of "pop" and an exciting atmosphere---tv will eventually come to you...no matter what time you kick off

(12-20-2017 10:11 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:59 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 08:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 07:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  The one thing I'm envious about with the MWC: they have only 1 one other conference to compete with (PAC12) and most of the PAC games are on Fox sports and the PAC network....they have leverage as being the only conference west of the Mississippi. ESPN needs them. Not saying they'll pay top dollar for them but they do need them as there is very little western inventory available. I suspect the MWC is bluffing with all this Digital talk stuff...

We didn't invest in our digital network to bluff.

You mean the the MWC network the original MWC schools set up, or you’ve invested further since then? Also, I’d be shocked if MWC newbies like San Jose St have invested the millions needed for digital like say the front range schools and UNLV and SDSU have.

Not the mtn.
The digital network we started in 2013. Conference gave $1 million in help to each school for broadcasting equipment...including SJSU. The network has been strong getting stronger each year.

Well basically the conference said we are going to give you the normal distribution we make but we are earmarking $1 million for this purpose so you can tell the fans the conference is paying for it and maybe we don't trust you to prioritize this unless its earmarked.

(12-20-2017 11:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 10:39 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It's fun hearing about west coasters complaining about late starts

I was complaining about late starts when I lived in the Central Time Zone. You're right, it is funny for an east coaster but it really makes a statement when people on the west side complain.

It does. We went to Hawaii for our honeymoon and sports began at 2pm there everyday. It was awesome

(12-21-2017 11:27 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 11:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 10:39 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It's fun hearing about west coasters complaining about late starts

I was complaining about late starts when I lived in the Central Time Zone. You're right, it is funny for an east coaster but it really makes a statement when people on the west side complain.

It does. We went to Hawaii for our honeymoon and sports began at 2pm there everyday. It was awesome

College football would start at 8am.

(12-19-2017 09:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 09:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Interesting speculation...

Its not really speculation. Thompson has basically said they are looking at doing that if they dont get a sizable raise from ESPN. Essentially, their schools have studied the issue and believe they are better off catering to the fans in the stadium (kick off times that maximize attendance and in stadium income) than catering to a TV deal that provides minimal income.

The Boise deal plays into this also I believe. They have to give Boise 1.5M off the top of TV rights but not cable rights. So not only do they get better start times they avoid the Boise hostage fee.

(12-20-2017 04:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 03:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 02:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  MWC has been pretty big on the Saturday emphasis.

Remember they ditched ESPN for CSTV (now CBSSN) to avoid weeknights.

When you rely on people to do more than drive across town to watch you play, you can't subject them to too many weeknight games.

Or late-night games, even on Saturday. More than half of the MWC teams are in the situation of expecting a large percentage of their season-ticket holders to travel from at least 90 minutes away. CBSSN sets some MWC games to kick off at 8:30 pm local time. That means a game that ends around midnight, and getting home around 2 am (or later if your drive is even longer). If you're a season ticket holder, how much of that are you going to put up with before you don't renew your season tickets? If the athletic department is counting on a lot of fans to drive in from a long way away and purchase individual tickets for big games, how many ticket sales do they lose when the game kicks off at 8:30 pm, which was the game time for Colorado State's home game vs. Boise in November?

And having CBSSN do this to you, when they pay very little for the TV rights and their TV audiences are so low that they don't even subscribe to the Nielsen rating service, that's just pouring salt in the wound.

I think the MW did the math on eroding "in stadium" revenue and dont see much upside at the current ESPN/CBS-Sports payout--esepcially with the MW Digital Network starting to be profitable. I dont think Stadium will be a big part of the MW picture. Remember, to the best of my knowledge Stadium pays nothing (or close to nothing) for TV rights. I dont think Stadium's current model can be profitable if they are paying much for content.

I think the MW is going end up being the anti-AAC in the next negotiatiin round. The AAC will play anywhere and anytime to get a better deal. Their solid ratings and flexibility will make them a popular dance partner in the next TV negotiations.

The MW is going to do just the opposite of the AAC and will end up with a sort of hybrid deal. They are going to take back control on their start times by having the vast majority of their games on the subscription MW Network. I think they believe they cant keep abusing thier ticket buying fans and need to rebuild that base to get the "in stadium" revenue back to where it needs to be. Thus, they will increase value by significantly reducing the supply of MW games available and by severely limiting the number of late night windows they will play.


The MW will offer a 2-game a week premium package with one game at a good agreeable kick time for MW schools and one game in a late window. Those late window games will be distributed equally among MW teams (one each) so--there will only be 12 late start games sold for the entire season. No single team will have to deal with more than one late window game per year (I thnk ESPN buys this package). If the networks balk or wont pay what the MW wants, the MW will just go all digital. Once that premium plan is sold--a smaller plan with games only at kick times agreeable to MW schools will be offered. Thats probably snapped up by CBS-Sports and probably doesnt bring a lot--but its found money if you were willing to go all digital anyway and it increases exposure.

I think the MW could come out ahead monetarily doing something like that. The question is--do they lose too much on the exposure front by having so many games only on digital platforms? If they do, one adjustment that could tweak the exposure level upward would be to make the MWDN a non-subscription service (like it is now) and let Stadium mirror the games on their OTA-Syndicated Network. If they do this, they could add a MWDN commerical to every televised game to drive more viewership to the new digital network.

I could see this working out for the MW if they are smart and the MWDN has the capacity to competently stream all the games it would need to televise.

The Boise deal adds a wrinkle to this model. The only way this works is if Boise home rights are not sold to TV.