(12-18-2017 12:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 08:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 12:17 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No reason to make 15 seed play-in’s. Plenty great 15-2 upsets over the years. Making 4 16 seed play-in’s for a cap of 70 teams is fine.

15 seeds are 8-124 in the first round and 9-132 overall.

And numerous close calls. There's a sharp drop off from 15-seeds to 16-seeds, even after the opening round. Of course their overall record isn't great, it shouldn't be.

Sometimes, 16th seed almost knocks off the 1 seed. The problem that I am seeing is that the lower seeds get underrated at times, and some of the P5 schools are overrated with their seeds.

(12-18-2017 07:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's an insulting thing to say. HBCUs typically run on a shoe-string budget, so if big-name teams want to pay them to fill out the home schedule, why on earth should they say no?

And i bet it's a great experience for their team to play at places like Kansas, Syracuse, Oregon, and Ohio State. Sounds like a fun time to me.

The hating on the SWAC here is absurd. This whole thread is a solution jealously searching for a problem.

I went to an HBCU, so I think I can speak on the subject. My HBCU is solid but many should close, merge or become more inclusive. While some are there for those who otherwise couldn't go to college, some don't prepare you for life and the curriculum is a joke. Even my school had high schoolish curriculum outside of some of the tougher majors like engineering.

As for scheduling in college basketball, it goes to show that many shouldn't be D-I to begin with. You shouldn't have to schedule 20 road games a year just consider yourself D-I and cash a March Madness check. Hampton, Howard, FAMU, NCAT, PV, AA&M and maybe Southern are just about the only ones that should be D-I. Tennessee State is a given since they aren't even in an HBCU conference.

Division I should contract by about 30 schools across a range of conferences. Too many schools with no tangible support that should realistically be in Division II or III.

Or NAIA...

(12-18-2017 06:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 06:24 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 04:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 12:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 08:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  15 seeds are 8-124 in the first round and 9-132 overall.

And numerous close calls. There's a sharp drop off from 15-seeds to 16-seeds, even after the opening round. Of course their overall record isn't great, it shouldn't be.

9 out of 141 to none out of 132 isn't much of a dropoff.
1 second round win vs. none isn't much of a dropoff. Most 2 vs. 15 are very one-sided.

14s are 23-132, but still with only 2 second round wins. But they do win about 1 out of 6 in the first round. 13s are 31-132 with 6 second round wins. 12s are the ones who clearly belong at 71-152 with a 50-102 first round record with 20 second round wins and one 3rd round.

With 68 teams in the field, all the 12 seeds should be ranked in the top 48 teams in the country. Most of the 20 teams seeded lower than them are the one bid minor conference champs. So it shouldn't be a big surprise if a team ranked between #45-48 beats one ranked between #17-20 one out of three tries.

The 12s who win are often minor conference champs who probably should be 8 or 9 seeds.

In the last 10 seasons, 18 12-seeds (out of 40) have won 1st round games. 10 of those 18 were autobid teams and the other 8 were at-large teams.

The value of the bottom 18 one bid conferences is that they give the top 16 seeds, on average 14 from the 6 majors, a virtual bye. Even with an upset or two in there, that represents a lot of extra NCAA credits for those conferences, $$$.

And this is the way they manage them. They force them through the grinder, one and done, one and done, one and done. Maybe one gets lucky and wins one, but so what. These extra 100-150 schools also provide win padding, like Omaha did tonight for KU (109-64).

If you did decide to cut schools, budget is probably the best way. Since all 75 Majors spend over $5M (except Butler at $4.833M), dividing by three from that figure would be a good cut line, say $1.6M or 245 schools, with 103 being cut.

Bye bye SWAC, MEAC, Ivy League, SLC (save SFA and just barely TAMU-CC), Big South (save Liberty and High Point), tSL (save Denver and ORU), the OVC (save Belmont, Murray, EKU), AEC (save Stony Brook, Hartford, and just barely Albany). Others would lose a slew of members: 6 of 12 Sunbelt below the line, 5 of 11 NEC, 6 of 11 Big Sky (I scored UND with tSL), 3 of 8 WAC, 5 of 10 SoCon, 2 of 10 tHL (IUPUI, YSU), 2 of 8 ASUN (KSU, UNF). Some individual schools in conferences also get hit, Lehigh (Patriot), Cal State Fullerton (Big West), and St. Peter's (MAAC) also are below the line.

That could clear anywhere from 6 to 12 conferences. Of course funny accounting would come in and maybe fifty schools would suddenly surge spending on MBB $500K or more to get above the cut line. So it's more an observation that actionable criteria.

But IMO why bother, the M6 have figured out how to make extra money off these schools.

(12-18-2017 07:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 01:21 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 10:42 AM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  And one of those 0 win teams (Texas Southern) is probably the best team in the SWAC, but they have played 11 road games for the money.

@ Gonzaga
@ Washington State
@ Ohio State
@ Syracuse
@ Kansas
@ Clemson
@ Oakland
@ Toledo
@ Oregon
@ Baylor
@ Wyoming

They round out their OOC schedule @ TCU and @ BYU this week.

Real question is if these TSU kids see a classroom at all in the first 2 months of the season with that travel schedule.

Yikes!

Are they trying to fund the entire Alethic Department will h that schedule?

Talk about being whored out.....

Sent from my Z988 using CSNbbs mobile app

That's an insulting thing to say. HBCUs typically run on a shoe-string budget, so if big-name teams want to pay them to fill out the home schedule, why on earth should they say no?

And i bet it's a great experience for their team to play at places like Kansas, Syracuse, Oregon, and Ohio State. Sounds like a fun time to me.

The hating on the SWAC here is absurd. This whole thread is a solution jealously searching for a problem.

Mismatches in the first round. Schools basically whoring themselves for the money, bankrupting their schools to be in Division I. Losing 110-52 is not fun.

(12-18-2017 08:00 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Ultimately, this is the reason the P4/P5 will never break away completely: someone has to lose the game. Do you think Duke would win 28-32 games per year if they had to play Kansas, Ohio State, Kentucky, and UCLA instead of Southern, Evansville, Furman, and Utah Valley?

This carries over to football as well. I don't think the P5 actually wants the G5 to fully go away, because soft OOC scheduling allows lower-level P5 schools to get to 6-6 and bowl eligible even if they only win a couple conference games. That kind of thing is important for keeping fans engaged during down periods.

(12-18-2017 08:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 07:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's an insulting thing to say. HBCUs typically run on a shoe-string budget, so if big-name teams want to pay them to fill out the home schedule, why on earth should they say no?

And i bet it's a great experience for their team to play at places like Kansas, Syracuse, Oregon, and Ohio State. Sounds like a fun time to me.

The hating on the SWAC here is absurd. This whole thread is a solution jealously searching for a problem.

I went to an HBCU, so I think I can speak on the subject. My HBCU is solid but many should close, merge or become more inclusive. While some are there for those who otherwise couldn't go to college, some don't prepare you for life and the curriculum is a joke. Even my school had high schoolish curriculum outside of some of the tougher majors like engineering.

As for scheduling in college basketball, it goes to show that many shouldn't be D-I to begin with. You shouldn't have to schedule 20 road games a year just consider yourself D-I and cash a March Madness check. Hampton, Howard, FAMU, NCAT, PV, AA&M and maybe Southern are just about the only ones that should be D-I. Tennessee State is a given since they aren't even in an HBCU conference.

With Hampton splitting for the Big South, I wonder if the NEC would make a play for Howard and Del State as a package.

(12-18-2017 08:37 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  Division I should contract by about 30 schools across a range of conferences. Too many schools with no tangible support that should realistically be in Division II or III.

I'd say about 70-100 schools.

Not sure if this has been posted, but Savannah St. is doing the right thing.

http://www.wjcl.com/article/savannah-sta...c/14382922

There are about 350 schools in Division I now. Once the NCAA tourney started making big bucks a bunch of schools moved up. I think it was early 80s there were only about 250 in Division I.

The HBCUs are clearly struggling. The trouble they have is that they are all fighting over the same type of students--African American students interested in attending a HBCU. That student population is increasingly shrinking as institutions that once barred black students are now actively courting them, particularly those that graduated at the top of their class.

I don't think there is a simple answer for them all but for the ones that are having the hardest time with enrollment it might be time to move away from their HBCU heritage and pursue a more integrated student body. A lot of these schools could also benefit from dropping to DII like Savannah St and give up on pursuing an arms race you can't possibly win and operate at a level they can financially handle.

For others I think the solution might be to maintain their HBCU identity as an institution but move to a more geographically friendly non-HBCU league. Tennessee St has done this for a while and now Hampton is going to give it a go.

I think the third option is that the strongest members of the MEAC and SWAC need to form a HBCU super-league. Put the teams with the strongest chance at surviving at the DI FCS level together and let the rest migrate to DII.

The fundamental problem is dilution. You have addressed HBCU where it is more pronounced because they are targeting just 12% of the population, and a segment of the population that is shrinking.

But dilution effects all the mid-major programs. There are not really that many more D-I Basketball athletes on the Mens's side than there were in 2005, but there are 100 more schools. The top players are still going to the same top 100 schools, so those bottom 150-200 are spread much thinner than before.

(12-18-2017 09:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  Not sure if this has been posted, but Savannah St. is doing the right thing.

http://www.wjcl.com/article/savannah-sta...c/14382922

There are about 350 schools in Division I now. Once the NCAA tourney started making big bucks a bunch of schools moved up. I think it was early 80s there were only about 250 in Division I.

Yep they were never D-I caliber to begin with.

(12-18-2017 09:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are about 350 schools in Division I now. Once the NCAA tourney started making big bucks a bunch of schools moved up. I think it was early 80s there were only about 250 in Division I.

It's the NCAA's fault. Essentially they put up a big neon sign that read, "FREE MONEY EVERY YEAR FOR ANYONE WHO JOINS DIVISION I"

(12-19-2017 02:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 09:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are about 350 schools in Division I now. Once the NCAA tourney started making big bucks a bunch of schools moved up. I think it was early 80s there were only about 250 in Division I.

It's the NCAA's fault. Essentially they put up a big neon sign that read, "FREE MONEY EVERY YEAR FOR ANYONE WHO JOINS DIVISION I"

That certainly drives a lot of schools to move up in class. But it's not the only reason. By virtue of being in D-I, a school can trade a win for a pile of cash by going on the road against the top programs, who otherwise couldn't schedule them if they were in a lower division. I'll bet Texas Southern is getting more money by playing 13 OOC games on the road than they get from their share of NCAAT loot.

And 11 of those 13 games were on television, compared to 1 game of their conference schedule. That doesn't happen if they are D-II.

(12-18-2017 08:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 07:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's an insulting thing to say. HBCUs typically run on a shoe-string budget, so if big-name teams want to pay them to fill out the home schedule, why on earth should they say no?

And i bet it's a great experience for their team to play at places like Kansas, Syracuse, Oregon, and Ohio State. Sounds like a fun time to me.

The hating on the SWAC here is absurd. This whole thread is a solution jealously searching for a problem.

I went to an HBCU, so I think I can speak on the subject. My HBCU is solid but many should close, merge or become more inclusive. While some are there for those who otherwise couldn't go to college, some don't prepare you for life and the curriculum is a joke. Even my school had high schoolish curriculum outside of some of the tougher majors like engineering.

As for scheduling in college basketball, it goes to show that many shouldn't be D-I to begin with. You shouldn't have to schedule 20 road games a year just consider yourself D-I and cash a March Madness check. Hampton, Howard, FAMU, NCAT, PV, AA&M and maybe Southern are just about the only ones that should be D-I. Tennessee State is a given since they aren't even in an HBCU conference.

What about Grambling?

(12-18-2017 10:42 AM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  And one of those 0 win teams (Texas Southern) is probably the best team in the SWAC, but they have played 11 road games for the money.

@ Gonzaga
@ Washington State
@ Ohio State
@ Syracuse
@ Kansas
@ Clemson
@ Oakland
@ Toledo
@ Oregon
@ Baylor
@ Wyoming

They round out their OOC schedule @ TCU and @ BYU this week.

Real question is if these TSU kids see a classroom at all in the first 2 months of the season with that travel schedule.

TSU has to be pulling down some really good guarantees with that non-conference road schedule. In addition, they're renting their arena to U of H this season, as the Cougars rebuild Hofheinz Pavilion into the Fertitta Center.

Good for TSU's bottom line. And, their team may be pretty good against SWAC competition.

(12-19-2017 02:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  What about Grambling?

Their athletic department has had some scandals and controversies over the years. And IINM, they also have had some accreditation issues. It's a tiny school in a rural part of Louisiana, the sensible thing to do is merge it with Louisiana Tech, which is literally right down the road.