Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
bricksnivy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,409
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation: 14
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #21
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 07:54 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-16-2017 10:52 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  Experienced players make a difference. State didn't have their PG so they lost. When Talley went out the other day, we dropped off. Our freshman wasn't quite ready yet, he will learn. Taking care of the ball is the key at any level. When you go through it some, like Gary, he's going to get better. And, UNCW needed to have another guard helping out.

I don't see UNCW pressing this year. They don't have the numbers right now anyways. They will get better and the freshmen will get more PT too for the future.

We could still institute full court pressure to run clock and disrupt the flow of an opponent, even if it wasn't all out Havoc style pressure. The 1-2-2 UNCG played was more of a way to start defending after a made basket. And, the 1-2-2 flowed nicely into zone once the opponent passed half court. I would argue we need it even more because our numbers are low to even have a shot of winning. Even if you're not defending full court, you have to get back fast to prevent fast breaks which takes just as much effort. And, it gets your bigs in position to defend and prevents drives to the basket which draws fouls. A LOT of the drives on us are because we are waiting to defend at half court. Guards are surveying the landscape and can see a path to the bucket by simply making a good move on our guards. Once they beat one guard, we're in a bad spot and either give up the bucket or foul.

I would also argue that NCSU lost because UNCG had a better roster to press and run than NCSU. They also had a full year and a half of experience running their press successfully. NCSU has a bunch of big slow men who play in the post. Cacok would have been devastating on the NCSU squad against UNCG.

(12-17-2017 09:29 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 08:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Did anyone watch the halftime show during the NCSU/UNCG game? They had an ACC coaches panel with Pastner, Padgett, Brey, Larranaga, Buzz Williams and Brownell, and they asked each of them about their first year as a head coach. Brey had some great insight for Padgett, talked about discovering yourself and your own style and how difficult it is to delegate your first season. It was a good discussion, and I couldn't help but think of those that have already written off McGrath as one term HC failure. Buzz also talked about defining success and validation differently than the fans.


Not writing off McGrath at all. I am facing reality though. McGrath is almost starting from scratch as a first time head coach, at a school without the resources of a UNC, and implementing a system he doesn't have the players for. That's a tough row to hoe. I have a greater issue with the decision by UNCW to switch gears than I do with McGrath. He may succeed, but he wasn't set up to succeed. Climbing out of a hole in your first year, following three years of record breaking success is not easy.

Mostly agree with you. I don't think the UNC system "concern" is a big deal though. Brey is from Duke and didn't get the same caliber of athlete at Delaware. I get your disappointment with the admin's decision to break from the Keatts' mold, but I wish you be less vocal at this point. There's no changing the decision now...and I think it is clouding your judgement when it comes to the new staff (UNCG being an unacceptable loss, for example).
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2017 11:28 AM by bricksnivy.)
12-17-2017 11:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Online
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 7,639
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Virginia
Post: #22
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 08:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Did anyone watch the halftime show during the NCSU/UNCG game? They had an ACC coaches panel with Pastner, Padgett, Brey, Larranaga, Buzz Williams and Brownell, and they asked each of them about their first year as a head coach. Brey had some great insight for Padgett, talked about discovering yourself and your own style and how difficult it is to delegate your first season. It was a good discussion, and I couldn't help but think of those that have already written off McGrath as one term HC failure. Buzz also talked about defining success and validation differently than the fans.

I think for some or most of our posters here it seems to be less of a knock on McGrath, and more frustration with the AD moving the program away from a Keatts “system” that was working. That’s how I’m interpreting it at least.
12-17-2017 11:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bricksnivy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,409
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation: 14
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #23
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 11:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 08:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Did anyone watch the halftime show during the NCSU/UNCG game? They had an ACC coaches panel with Pastner, Padgett, Brey, Larranaga, Buzz Williams and Brownell, and they asked each of them about their first year as a head coach. Brey had some great insight for Padgett, talked about discovering yourself and your own style and how difficult it is to delegate your first season. It was a good discussion, and I couldn't help but think of those that have already written off McGrath as one term HC failure. Buzz also talked about defining success and validation differently than the fans.

I think for some or most of our posters here it seems to be less of a knock on McGrath, and more frustration with the AD moving the program away from a Keatts “system” that was working. That’s how I’m interpreting it at least.

I think 82 has been pretty consistent with that criticism. None of us know how it will play out in 2-3 years, and I have concerns as well, but I'd like to give this staff a chance. Some have been discouraged by UNCG's success, but I think when you look at Miller's path, we should be encouraged. The bumps will suck, especially if you think we needed to stick with a certain style, but I don't think we're going to be able to tell define/grade the hire until we're a few years in. If we're patient, and McGrath's path mimics Miller's, we'll all be happy...and 82 believes McGrath will be here for the long haul if we'll have, so it will be perfect.

Jamion Christian was my favorite as we went through the process, but as soon as it was McGrath, I turned the page.

FWIW, Riley's article yesterday mentioned the SOS being 45th for UNCW this year. Keatts SOS his first season was 311th and we finished 18-14. Keatts was great for UNCW and I have no desire to rewrite history, but we're not comparing apples-to-apples.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2017 11:54 AM by bricksnivy.)
12-17-2017 11:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Online
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 7,639
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Virginia
Post: #24
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 11:50 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 11:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 08:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Did anyone watch the halftime show during the NCSU/UNCG game? They had an ACC coaches panel with Pastner, Padgett, Brey, Larranaga, Buzz Williams and Brownell, and they asked each of them about their first year as a head coach. Brey had some great insight for Padgett, talked about discovering yourself and your own style and how difficult it is to delegate your first season. It was a good discussion, and I couldn't help but think of those that have already written off McGrath as one term HC failure. Buzz also talked about defining success and validation differently than the fans.

I think for some or most of our posters here it seems to be less of a knock on McGrath, and more frustration with the AD moving the program away from a Keatts “system” that was working. That’s how I’m interpreting it at least.

I think 82 has been pretty consistent with that criticism. None of us know how it will play out in 2-3 years, and I have concerns as well, but I'd like to give this staff a chance. Some have been discouraged by UNCG's success, but I think when you look at Miller's path, we should be encouraged. The bumps will suck, especially if you think we needed to stick with a certain style, but I don't think we're going to be able to tell define/grade the hire until we're a few years in. If we're patient, and McGrath's path mimics Miller's, we'll all be happy...and 82 believes McGrath will be here for the long haul if we'll have, so it will be perfect.

Jamion Christian was my favorite as we went through the process, but as soon as it was McGrath, I turned the page.

FWIW, Riley's article yesterday mentioned the SOS being 45th for UNCW this year. Keatts SOS his first season was 311th and we finished 18-14. Keatts was great for UNCW and I have no desire to rewrite history, but we're not comparing apples-to-apples.

110% Agree here. Precisely how I feel.
12-17-2017 11:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GrayHawk Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 69
Joined: Nov 2016
Reputation: 0
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #25
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 07:42 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Lol,

Keatts was only here three years. To hear anyone complain we didn't get back to "where we were" is comical. He threw together a hodge podge of players to provide quick success and it worked. Take a look at the incoming players that walked away when he left. We had a lot of size and athleticism on the way.
Havoc isn't built in a day(although he did pretty well), it's a commitment over time to certain types of players and coaches who will continue that style. UNCW took once small step in that direction over three years, had great success, then walked away. The best was yet to come but we abandoned ship for some unknown reason.

And before anyone presumes winning the CAA and even participating in the NCAA tournament is a given, take a look at William and Mary specifically and the CAA as a whole. We had more NCAA presence in the short span of Keatts than most of the teams in the CAA. Once you add in our prior success, our NCAA appearances blow away everyone else in the CAA. And, IMO, the sentiment expressed was the problem...AGAIN. We weren't happy with Brownell just GETTING to the NCAA, he needed to win. We weren't happy with Keatts just GETTING to the NCAA, he needed to win. And in both cases, we switched direction from a successful model hoping for next level success. The Brownell switch resulted in a decade of failure. We'll see where the Keatts switch winds up. I'm not optimistic at the moment.

I agree 100 % with this... Its like the new coaching staff wanted us to do a complete 180 from where we were. Granted, thats what new staffs do, BUT it seems like they would have transitioned into their style and not gone cold turkey. THIS has a lot to do with recruits not coming, and tranfers we've had. I mean even the slogan "New era Next flight" seems a bit egotistical to me.
12-17-2017 12:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Online
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 7,639
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Virginia
Post: #26
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 12:34 PM)GrayHawk Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 07:42 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Lol,

Keatts was only here three years. To hear anyone complain we didn't get back to "where we were" is comical. He threw together a hodge podge of players to provide quick success and it worked. Take a look at the incoming players that walked away when he left. We had a lot of size and athleticism on the way.
Havoc isn't built in a day(although he did pretty well), it's a commitment over time to certain types of players and coaches who will continue that style. UNCW took once small step in that direction over three years, had great success, then walked away. The best was yet to come but we abandoned ship for some unknown reason.

And before anyone presumes winning the CAA and even participating in the NCAA tournament is a given, take a look at William and Mary specifically and the CAA as a whole. We had more NCAA presence in the short span of Keatts than most of the teams in the CAA. Once you add in our prior success, our NCAA appearances blow away everyone else in the CAA. And, IMO, the sentiment expressed was the problem...AGAIN. We weren't happy with Brownell just GETTING to the NCAA, he needed to win. We weren't happy with Keatts just GETTING to the NCAA, he needed to win. And in both cases, we switched direction from a successful model hoping for next level success. The Brownell switch resulted in a decade of failure. We'll see where the Keatts switch winds up. I'm not optimistic at the moment.

I agree 100 % with this... Its like the new coaching staff wanted us to do a complete 180 from where we were. Granted, thats what new staffs do, BUT it seems like they would have transitioned into their style and not gone cold turkey. THIS has a lot to do with recruits not coming, and tranfers we've had. I mean even the slogan "New era Next flight" seems a bit egotistical to me.

That's what coaches do. Different coaches have played and coached under varying styles. They'll stick with that until it doesn't work. Then they either continue with it or change it up. Like Bricks and others have said... we are EIGHT games into McGrath's tenure. Sticking with the Miller comparison, it took him 5+ years to change away from a Carolina style at UNCG. FIVE YEARS. He's lucky his first gig was at UNCG, honestly. Had he been to a more successful mid major, he likely would have been done after 2-3 years. UNCG's lack of a basketball pedigree enabled him to have more time.

The key here is the big picture. Let's try and let things play out a little.

There's nothing wrong with being frustrated from time to time. At all. Losses do that to everyone. But, you have to stay the course. Give it time.
12-17-2017 12:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawk2010 Online
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 114
Joined: Dec 2017
Reputation: 0
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #27
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
The same AD that hired Keatts, hired McGrath. I trust that jimmy Bass hired the right coach
For the program. And not one that would simply continue a certain style.
12-17-2017 03:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Online
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 7,639
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Virginia
Post: #28
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 03:01 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  The same AD that hired Keatts, hired McGrath. I trust that jimmy Bass hired the right coach
For the program. And not one that would simply continue a certain style.

That’s what we’re all banking on. Bass has been as much a contributor to UNCW’s success as anyone in several sports, especially hoops. The Keatts gore easily earned him respect and hopefully the McGrath hire will prove genius as well. Big picture!
12-17-2017 03:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawkhoops Online
All American
*

Posts: 3,988
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 23
I Root For: UNCW
Location: RTP
Post: #29
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
(12-17-2017 11:50 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 11:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 08:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Did anyone watch the halftime show during the NCSU/UNCG game? They had an ACC coaches panel with Pastner, Padgett, Brey, Larranaga, Buzz Williams and Brownell, and they asked each of them about their first year as a head coach. Brey had some great insight for Padgett, talked about discovering yourself and your own style and how difficult it is to delegate your first season. It was a good discussion, and I couldn't help but think of those that have already written off McGrath as one term HC failure. Buzz also talked about defining success and validation differently than the fans.

I think for some or most of our posters here it seems to be less of a knock on McGrath, and more frustration with the AD moving the program away from a Keatts “system” that was working. That’s how I’m interpreting it at least.

I think 82 has been pretty consistent with that criticism. None of us know how it will play out in 2-3 years, and I have concerns as well, but I'd like to give this staff a chance. Some have been discouraged by UNCG's success, but I think when you look at Miller's path, we should be encouraged. The bumps will suck, especially if you think we needed to stick with a certain style, but I don't think we're going to be able to tell define/grade the hire until we're a few years in. If we're patient, and McGrath's path mimics Miller's, we'll all be happy...and 82 believes McGrath will be here for the long haul if we'll have, so it will be perfect.

Jamion Christian was my favorite as we went through the process, but as soon as it was McGrath, I turned the page.

FWIW, Riley's article yesterday mentioned the SOS being 45th for UNCW this year. Keatts SOS his first season was 311th and we finished 18-14. Keatts was great for UNCW and I have no desire to rewrite history, but we're not comparing apples-to-apples.
Honest question here, Keatts considered a good coach by most, inherits a team that couldn't win 5 games the year before and wins 20. If he could make other players play his style why can't CB?
12-18-2017 08:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bricksnivy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,409
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation: 14
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #30
RE: To press or not to press- good article which discusses UNCG and their recent change
Well, first, he didn't win 20 games in his first season, and we won 9 games the previous year (not less than 5). Secondly, Keatts was 6-6 in his non-conference schedule, including wins over Catawba, UNCG (310), VMI (287), St. Andrews, Liberty (347), and ECU (220). As I stated, this squad has faced a much tougher schedule than Keatts did in his first season. The SOS in 14-15 was 311th compared to 45th this year. Have we left wins on the table? We can look back at ECU and feel bad about that game, but we were really disappointed after losing to Loyola and UNCG and they both followed up wins against us with big-time wins (over UF and NCSU). Respectively, their RPI is 119 and 80, Valpo's RPI is 107, Davidson is 143rd and LSU is 129th. Easy to see that the schedule makes a huge difference is results.

Our best non-conference win in Keatts inaugural season was against ECU and he lost to a comparable Campbell team in '14. How does Coach Keatts, considered a good coach by most lose to UNI and UNCG with ACC talent? We're much more understanding of the challenges Keatts faces than we our the challenges McGrath faces.
12-18-2017 09:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.