(12-14-2017 02:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I'm self employed, but I am not yet old enough to have family of my own. I rely specifically on itemized deductions to keep my taxes from getting out of control, and right now a few those deductions are getting repealed.

If I had kids, or one of those jobs where taxes are taken out of your paycheck every month, it'd be different. But because my job chose a few years ago to switch to a self employment model (Right around the time Obamacare passed), I'm getting screwed. It's no fun. Right now I'm looking at about 600 bucks more per year

Also self-employed and sans family here. The standard deduction, last I saw, was being doubled. And the mortgage deduction was still in place up to $500,000. And the property tax deduction was still in place up to $10,000. I also itemize, but only come out about 10-15% better than the standard deduction. So doubling the standard deduction is a win for me.

I'm on year 11 of my 30 year mortgage. I'm still probably going to be better off itemizing, but eventually, due to the amortization schedule paying more on principle and less on intereset, the doubling of the standard deduction is going to start saving me even more taxes in the long-run and I won't have to go through the PITA and credit colonoscopy of a refinance.

(12-14-2017 02:40 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:00 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Ronald Regan tried that and how did it turn out?

leave out skewed data from '83 and '84 and what did it do?

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache...l-1996.pdf

(12-14-2017 02:52 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Yeah, state income taxes will get me, though my federal is going up as well. I've been given the option in a few months of moving out of the state to Tennessee, where there is no state income tax. Not sure what I want to do, because the cost of living is much higher.

The real danger of moving to TN being self-employed is the collapse of ObamaCare is hardest of all in that state. If you can move to the Knoxville -
Pigeon Forge - Johnson City area ... or outside the flood plane near Chattanooga ... pull the trigger.

(12-14-2017 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Again, there has been no public input on this bill.

100% wrong. The people elected Donald Trump. That's all the input that Congress needed.

Elections have consequences, as a wise man used to say.

(12-14-2017 03:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Again, there has been no public input on this bill.

100% wrong. The people elected Donald Trump. That's all the input that Congress needed.

Elections have consequences, as a wise man used to say.

Did the people elect trump, or did the electoral college?

(12-14-2017 03:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Did the people elect trump, or did the electoral college?

Take it up with the founders.

(12-14-2017 12:41 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:15 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.

You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.

great summary
Are you willing to also blast the Democrats for doing the same with ObamaCare?

There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.

None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.

----

If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.

And after all the debate and all the hearings (not to mention an underwhelming level of public support) the Deomcrats couldn't pass it without making up the rules as they went.

First the Senate stripped a military housing bill and created the ACA since the military housing bill had already been passed by the House. Then Reid and Pelosi cut a deal to get around the fact the Massachusetts elected a Republican which left the Senate short on votes if the House made any changes. Thus the creation of the Reconciliation Act of 2010. The House passed the Senate's bill without any changes and in return the Senate passed the House's reconciliation bill to make the necessary changes. That still left the Senate in a bind since thy only had 59 votes after Kennedy died, so Reid used the reconciliation rule and passed it with 51 votes even though the reconciliation rule was supposed to be used for budget item approvals and not legislature. All in the middle of the night.

Your comment about the Dems and Republicans playing by a different set of rules as if the Republicans play dirty is ******* hilarious. You're getting the tax bill because of the dirty rules the Pelosi and Reid essentially made up as they went. Hell Democrats admitted they were making the rules up as they went with Obamacare. So just sit back and reap what the dem's have sown.

(12-14-2017 12:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Patiently waiting for the Toms to reaffirm they're still drinking Kool Aid or come to terms with the truth.

I already admitted that you can rightly take issue with the typical DC shenanigans to get the ACA passed.

But still, the vast majority of this bill was debated Congressionally and publicly for a good year. This tax bill is by no means comparable in that regard.

It was one of Trump's campaign promises and people have talked about it for over a year. Another promise kept. Can't wait to see that big beautiful wall!!!

(12-14-2017 02:55 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:40 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:00 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Ronald Regan tried that and how did it turn out?

leave out skewed data from '83 and '84 and what did it do?

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache...l-1996.pdf

still did not answer the question

(12-14-2017 07:42 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:55 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:40 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:00 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Ronald Regan tried that and how did it turn out?

leave out skewed data from '83 and '84 and what did it do?

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache...l-1996.pdf

still did not answer the question

You didn't read the report.

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

No, he didn't. That was what was wrong with the "Bush tax cuts." That and the fact that spending was not cut to offset any decreases in revenues.

The "Bush tax cuts" were "trickle down," not supply-side. The two are not the same, regardless of ill-informed efforts to characterize them as such.

So Rubio is a 'No' for now unless they do something about the child tax credit? Corker already is a probable No and Mike Lee might join Rubio unless they fix the child tax credit.

Add in McCain's ongoing health issues and it seems like it won't pass in the Senate unless Rubio wins out.

(12-14-2017 08:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  So Rubio is a 'No' for now unless they do something about the child tax credit? Corker already is a probable No and Mike Lee might join Rubio unless they fix the child tax credit.

Add in McCain's ongoing health issues and it seems like it won't pass in the Senate unless Rubio wins out.

Corker needs to get back to his old job being an ornamental gnome at Ruby Falls

(12-14-2017 05:48 PM)Pigs N Heat BBQ Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Patiently waiting for the Toms to reaffirm they're still drinking Kool Aid or come to terms with the truth.

I already admitted that you can rightly take issue with the typical DC shenanigans to get the ACA passed.

But still, the vast majority of this bill was debated Congressionally and publicly for a good year. This tax bill is by no means comparable in that regard.

It was one of Trump's campaign promises and people have talked about it for over a year. Another promise kept. Can't wait to see that big beautiful wall!!!

It's not signed yet...

(12-14-2017 08:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  So Rubio is a 'No' for now unless they do something about the child tax credit? Corker already is a probable No and Mike Lee might join Rubio unless they fix the child tax credit.

Add in McCain's ongoing health issues and it seems like it won't pass in the Senate unless Rubio wins out.

I thought I also heard that another Senator was currently not able to vote on this for some reason. Cochran maybe?

(12-14-2017 08:59 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 08:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  So Rubio is a 'No' for now unless they do something about the child tax credit? Corker already is a probable No and Mike Lee might join Rubio unless they fix the child tax credit.

Add in McCain's ongoing health issues and it seems like it won't pass in the Senate unless Rubio wins out.

Corker needs to get back to his old job being an ornamental gnome at Ruby Falls

[Jeremy Irons in Die Hard With A Vengeance]
How colorful.....
[/Jeremy Irons]

Grover Norquist is a wacko.

Given that, it doesn't alter the fact that we are severely punishing our own economy with our tax and regulatory systems. It's nothing new, we've been doing that, to some extent by design, since Bretton Woods. Peter Zeihan, for one, provides a pretty good explanation of this in his books or most of his lectures. We simply have so many natural advantages that we can still survive and get away with it. But is that a policy path that we want to continue to pursue?

Is Rubio really willing to sink this whole thing, or is he just trying to get his name being brought up again?

(12-15-2017 12:42 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is Rubio really willing to sink this whole thing, or is he just trying to get his name being brought up again?

He's done this before. He'll be a yes. Nobody is being fooled.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/us/po...-bill.html

The conference committee made a concession to Rubio increasing the refundable percentage of the child tax credit from 55% to 70%.