This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.
You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.
(12-14-2017 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.
You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.
Are you willing to also blast the Democrats for doing the same with ObamaCare?
(12-14-2017 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.
You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.
Are you willing to also blast the Democrats for doing the same with ObamaCare?
There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.
None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.
----
If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 12:22 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
(12-14-2017 12:18 PM)shere khan Wrote: If regular folks get 100 dollars more per pay check due to this tax cut regardless of any other implications the dems are totally fricked in 2018.
It doubles the child tax credit and even ties it to payroll taxes so a lot of people, including traditional dems like low wage single moms and suburban soccer moms, will see a lot more of their own money. Not sure if it will affect 2018 or not, however. Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any votes. On the flipside, Trump could cure cancer and muh resistance would find a reason to march.
(12-14-2017 12:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.
None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.
----
If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.
Given a chance to show you can be fair and honest you have chosen either blind tribalism and confirmation bias or deliberate deception. Very disappointing.
(12-14-2017 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.
You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.
Are you willing to also blast the Democrats for doing the same with ObamaCare?
There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.
None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.
----
If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.
Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.
(12-14-2017 12:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.
None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.
----
If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.
Given a chance to show you can be fair and honest you have chosen either blind tribalism and confirmation bias or deliberate deception. Very disappointing.
C'mon GTS...you're being ridiculous. The ACA was debated for a year. Sure, you can argue that the way it was finally passed involved some of the typical DC shenanigans, but to act like it was not debated publicly and with the GOP leadership for months is laughable.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 12:42 PM by Redwingtom.)
(12-14-2017 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: This is going to be a massive f*ck up. No debate, no hearings, no vetting. Because they know they cant get it passed if there's any scrutiny. That's a really bad sign. It will be dropped on Friday night then voted on Monday.
You'd think that if they were proud of their tax bill, they'd WANT the public scrutiny.
Are you willing to also blast the Democrats for doing the same with ObamaCare?
There were years of debate over Obamacare. There was public input from all sides. There were public hearings. The bill was the topic of open meetings that Congressmen had in their districts. There was all of that.
None of that happened here. None of that will happen here. Your use of the Obamacare debate is really an inappropriate analogy.
----
If you thought the schedule on Obamacare was rushed, then this is Obamacare on steroids. And it sets a precedent. Not a good one. Eventually the Dems are going to stop playing by one set of rules while the GOP plays by another.
And after all the debate and all the hearings (not to mention an underwhelming level of public support) the Deomcrats couldn't pass it without making up the rules as they went.
First the Senate stripped a military housing bill and created the ACA since the military housing bill had already been passed by the House. Then Reid and Pelosi cut a deal to get around the fact the Massachusetts elected a Republican which left the Senate short on votes if the House made any changes. Thus the creation of the Reconciliation Act of 2010. The House passed the Senate's bill without any changes and in return the Senate passed the House's reconciliation bill to make the necessary changes. That still left the Senate in a bind since thy only had 59 votes after Kennedy died, so Reid used the reconciliation rule and passed it with 51 votes even though the reconciliation rule was supposed to be used for budget item approvals and not legislature. All in the middle of the night.
Your comment about the Dems and Republicans playing by a different set of rules as if the Republicans play dirty is ******* hilarious. You're getting the tax bill because of the dirty rules the Pelosi and Reid essentially made up as they went. Hell Democrats admitted they were making the rules up as they went with Obamacare. So just sit back and reap what the dem's have sown.
(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.
Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!
(12-14-2017 12:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: C'mon GTS...you're being ridiculous. The ACA was debated for a year.
Debating healthcare in general does not equate to debating ObamaCare. ObamaCare was a endless series of last minute haggles to keep all the Democrats on board. Like the 11th hour Nelson rule that exempted Nebraska from ObamaCare until the GOP found that and raised immortal hell. Nelson resigned from Congress after that term. Probably because he was going to get his *** handed to him upon next re-election attempt.
Let's let the Washington Post explain it to you and the other Tom:
(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.
Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!
Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?
(12-14-2017 12:18 PM)shere khan Wrote: If regular folks get 100 dollars more per pay check due to this tax cut regardless of any other implications the dems are totally fricked in 2018.
The GOP might reduce some of their losses in 2018 by doing that, but by 2019, everyone will understand that 100 more a month in their pay packet - 200 dollars a month more for healthcare = 100 dollars less a month to spend.
Its a cynical ploy to try to fool the voters. And it might work in some limited fashion in 2018. I don't think it really will. I think really there's one issue here - Trump. And tax cut or no tax cut, he's got 55%-65% of the country so mad at him that they'll ignore any tax cut.
And then there's the impact of Trump's attacks on just about every group that isn't white, evangelical Christian, straight, cisgendered, English speaking, and natively born or European heritage. It doesn't matter what the GOP does elsewhere so long as Trump keeps his noxious statements, actions, and tweets.
(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.
Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!
Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?
Obama had no choice but to bail out the friggin bankers after GWB ran the economy into the ditch with his catastrophic tax cuts and Iraq War. You know, so our entire economy didn't collapse.
Trump's tax cut is 90% or more for the top 0.5% and will be in response....to no particular need. Just run up the deficit for no purpose.
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