(12-14-2017 12:40 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:14 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:47 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:44 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:06 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  If the AD forces Tubby to fire all his assistants then he will quit.

Got to play hardball to get a new coach in place.

And you're paying for it?

Paying for what?

The remaining terms of the contracts after Bowen fires everybody. Or maybe Tubby will coach the team with no assistants just to fight dirty. I would. Do no recruiting at all, hold tryouts on campus and tell everybody to F off.

We can pay off Tubby over 6 years and hire someone else at $1.5 million per season. The salaries will be a wash and if we sell 2,500 more tickets per game at $25 per ticket (including donations), that adds up to almost $1.2 million in additional revenue.

You tell Tubby he has to fire Saul and hope he goes away or wants to settle. If he doesn't you fire him. That might seem like an unfair way to treat poor old Tubby, but we can call it even for the whole burning the program to the ground and pulling in $6 million thing.

The line of coaches wanting to coach here after that would stretch around the block.

(12-14-2017 12:31 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:06 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  If the AD forces Tubby to fire all his assistants then he will quit.

Got to play hardball to get a new coach in place.

Can we at least wait until he starts losing games first?

7-2.

Tough room.

This is the part that makes it tough.

We are playing cupcakes with depleted rosters.

However, we are beating the cupcakes with depleted rosters.

Text book Tubby.

If he can beat up the conference the same, I will recant all my Tubby sucks statements.

A W is a W.

No matter how ugly.

This is why I have always hated watching Tubby teams.

Same with that one dude Floyd, and various others who I would imagine have already kicked the bucket.

A few seconds here or there and more missed opportunities and we are 2-7.

But that could be said in many situations.

A W is a W.

Now, go get ugly wins against our conference opponents.

(12-14-2017 09:52 AM)jamammy Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:31 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:06 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  If the AD forces Tubby to fire all his assistants then he will quit.

Got to play hardball to get a new coach in place.

Can we at least wait until he starts losing games first?

7-2.

Tough room.

This is the part that makes it tough.

We are playing cupcakes with depleted rosters.

However, we are beating the cupcakes with depleted rosters.

Text book Tubby.

If he can beat up the conference the same, I will recant all my Tubby sucks statements.

A W is a W.

No matter how ugly.

This is why I have always hated watching Tubby teams.

Same with that one dude Floyd, and various others who I would imagine have already kicked the bucket.

A few seconds here or there and more missed opportunities and we are 2-7.

But that could be said in many situations.

A W is a W.

Now, go get ugly wins against our conference opponents.

Nailed it.

I've never paid much attention to how Tubby coaches so if this is usual then yeah, it's tough to watch, but if the guy wins then he wins. Saturday will show whether we can hang with UC or WSU.

(12-14-2017 10:34 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 09:52 AM)jamammy Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:31 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:06 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  If the AD forces Tubby to fire all his assistants then he will quit.

Got to play hardball to get a new coach in place.

Can we at least wait until he starts losing games first?

7-2.

Tough room.

This is the part that makes it tough.

We are playing cupcakes with depleted rosters.

However, we are beating the cupcakes with depleted rosters.

Text book Tubby.

If he can beat up the conference the same, I will recant all my Tubby sucks statements.

If you wait until he actually starts losing to say he "sucks," there would be nothing to recant either way.

True.

And I have said about all I can say at this point anyway.

All I have left is I told you so.

Which is an oldie but a goodie.

(12-13-2017 12:05 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:59 AM)ballhog Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:48 AM)tigerlands Wrote:  The program peaked in 1973? Huh? Hmmm.

Although I agree with the majority of the article, to think that Seth Davis didn't write this to take a dig at Memphis is naive. The 1973 line was well thought out and planned.

Technically speaking he's correct. That's the only time we've reached the championship game. Calipari's appearance was vacated. Whether we like it or not we didn't win a game that year.

I know that's splitting hairs and I generally can't stand Davis, but accuracy counts.

That's just made up silliness. Go look at any records of the 1985 and 2008 NCAA tourney on wikipedia or ESPN and tell me what you see.

(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  We ran off Pastner in part because he was a "bad cultural fit." Tubby is pretty much the opposite in every way and a lot of our fan base (plus Mr Davis) think he's a "bad cultural fit."

Lots of fans felt Calipari was a "bad cultural fit" but overlooked it once he started winning.

I have a strong hunch that it's not about "culture" so much as it's about winning.

Pastner and Tubby are both bad cultural fits because they can't relate to young players well

Pastner because he is a control freak who micromanages and plays head games

Tubby because he doesn't care to understand what's changed in the past 25 years or put in any effort

Hence, transfers.

(12-14-2017 09:52 AM)jamammy Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:31 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:06 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  If the AD forces Tubby to fire all his assistants then he will quit.

Got to play hardball to get a new coach in place.

Can we at least wait until he starts losing games first?

7-2.

Tough room.

This is the part that makes it tough.

We are playing cupcakes with depleted rosters.

However, we are beating the cupcakes with depleted rosters.

Text book Tubby.

If he can beat up the conference the same, I will recant all my Tubby sucks statements.

A W is a W.

No matter how ugly.

This is why I have always hated watching Tubby teams.

Same with that one dude Floyd, and various others who I would imagine have already kicked the bucket.

A few seconds here or there and more missed opportunities and we are 2-7.

But that could be said in many situations.

A W is a W.

Now, go get ugly wins against our conference opponents.

He is beating sub-200 teams by the skin of his teeth. We could easily be 2-7

I avoided this thread until now, because I'm not a Seth fan, and didn't feel like getting riled up. After reading, it's meh. It's a bit shallow with no real insight.

He did miss a few things. One - KJ was already committed before daddy. Two - The exodus didn't "start" with the Lawsons. It started a few years earlier. Three - The recruiting class before the exodus wasn't "lousy". Johnson, Nickel, Enoh was a decent early class with the team we had at the time.

Otherwise, no big surprises.

(12-13-2017 11:30 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:20 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:16 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:15 AM)mairving Wrote:  A few years ago I would have been upset at a slight like that. Now I just nod my head in agreement, pretty sad.

That being said so far Tubby has exceeded my expectations this year. I was expecting 5-4 at best for now but 7-2.

Who did you expect us to lose to? Mercer? Albany?

Yes, I thought we would lose at least 2 of Mercer, Albany and Northern Kentucky. All 3 are decent teams. Mercer is worse than I thought that they would be though.

I just can't understand WHY anyone would really think Memphis, despite the perceived/real talent level, would lose home games to those teams.

NKU lost by 30 last year to WVU and was 3rd in the Horizon last year.

Mercer was 15-17 last year, finished 7th in the SoCo last year and lost by 24 to UTk the game prior to Memphis.

Albany finished 3rd/4th in the America East last year and was drilled by a few OOC teams last year.

I had us losing one of those too - learning curve.

Sagarin also had us 6-3 at this point preseason - losing to Mercer.

Currently, Sagarin still says NKU would be favored over us at Memphis - while KenPom has NKU and Mercer over us at FEF.

Now we can talk about the talent and play separately. But it is reasonable to forecast we would be 6-3 or even 5-4 right now. Sad reality. But no need to keep saying "how could you think that".

(12-13-2017 12:02 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  He 100% made up the Penny thing.

That's weird.

I'm not so sure about that. Hearing things. That comment could be the only real insight he had in the entire piece.

(12-13-2017 03:32 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 02:17 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  That’s the sum ‘it’s a bad fit’

Tubby isn’t a terrible coach; he just doesn’t fit the Memphis bb program needs

Memphis is a great bb program but doesn’t fit Tubby’s style

Far assessment. Different coaches are good for different programs.

Pastner: good coach, bad fit
Tubby: good coach, bad fit

What are the traits (not a name, but traits) a new Memphis coach should have?

Some that come to mind:

1. Enjoys, or at least values recruiting
2. Can speak to the players recruiting, can connect with Memphis talent on a personal level.
3. Runs a high energy, aggressive system that takes advantage of the natural talent (quick talented guards) that is the base of Memphis' recruiting base.
4. Understands what the fans want, and what the expectations are (quality aggressive hoops, with a 2nd weekend NCAA trip every 3rd year or so).

I mean, if I had to pick a name, I'd love Shaka Smart, but I'd love to be rich too and that's also not happening.

Anyone else got ideas on traits the new Memphis coach should have post-Tubby (whenever that is)?

Simple. You need to recruit well and that includes keeping local talent. Memphis fans pride themselves that top 100 local/regional recruits stay home. Even Calipari kept some local talent as well as recruiting players out of the state. Just be decent in coaching and you can win 20+ games every year.

One of the easiest jobs in the country.

More to it than that. Pastner did that - at least early. Results were not acceptable. Then when word got out, that trailed off for him as well.

(12-13-2017 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:32 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 02:17 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  That’s the sum ‘it’s a bad fit’

Tubby isn’t a terrible coach; he just doesn’t fit the Memphis bb program needs

Memphis is a great bb program but doesn’t fit Tubby’s style

Far assessment. Different coaches are good for different programs.

Pastner: good coach, bad fit
Tubby: good coach, bad fit

What are the traits (not a name, but traits) a new Memphis coach should have?

Some that come to mind:

1. Enjoys, or at least values recruiting
2. Can speak to the players recruiting, can connect with Memphis talent on a personal level.
3. Runs a high energy, aggressive system that takes advantage of the natural talent (quick talented guards) that is the base of Memphis' recruiting base.
4. Understands what the fans want, and what the expectations are (quality aggressive hoops, with a 2nd weekend NCAA trip every 3rd year or so).

I mean, if I had to pick a name, I'd love Shaka Smart, but I'd love to be rich too and that's also not happening.

Anyone else got ideas on traits the new Memphis coach should have post-Tubby (whenever that is)?

Simple. You need to recruit well and that includes keeping local talent. Memphis fans pride themselves that top 100 local/regional recruits stay home. Even Calipari kept some local talent as well as recruiting players out of the state. Just be decent in coaching and you can win 20+ games every year.

One of the easiest jobs in the country.

I don't think it is one of the easiest jobs in the country. It has it's challenges (local players come with families that have to be managed, even I would admit we are a relatively demanding fanbase, and the TV exposure is good, but not great).

But, we do have a generous donor base and passionate fans who will back a team that is good enough to warrant full buy in. Plus the natural recruiting base is solid gold.

It's not an easy job I would say, but a job that would look easy in the right hands...

But it's a damn GOOD job. And you nailed the reasons why!

It is one of the easiest jobs purely basketball-wise and yes, I figured someone was going to bring up the administrating skills as far as dealing with parents etc but I was talking about just recruiting and being a coach on the court, it’s not s hard job

Maybe easy - with those qualifiers. But all the other comes with it. Fact is, 3 of our last 4 coaches have not lived up to the job expectations. So it's not simply one of the easiest.

(12-15-2017 12:06 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:32 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  Far assessment. Different coaches are good for different programs.

Pastner: good coach, bad fit
Tubby: good coach, bad fit

What are the traits (not a name, but traits) a new Memphis coach should have?

Some that come to mind:

1. Enjoys, or at least values recruiting
2. Can speak to the players recruiting, can connect with Memphis talent on a personal level.
3. Runs a high energy, aggressive system that takes advantage of the natural talent (quick talented guards) that is the base of Memphis' recruiting base.
4. Understands what the fans want, and what the expectations are (quality aggressive hoops, with a 2nd weekend NCAA trip every 3rd year or so).

I mean, if I had to pick a name, I'd love Shaka Smart, but I'd love to be rich too and that's also not happening.

Anyone else got ideas on traits the new Memphis coach should have post-Tubby (whenever that is)?

Simple. You need to recruit well and that includes keeping local talent. Memphis fans pride themselves that top 100 local/regional recruits stay home. Even Calipari kept some local talent as well as recruiting players out of the state. Just be decent in coaching and you can win 20+ games every year.

One of the easiest jobs in the country.

I don't think it is one of the easiest jobs in the country. It has it's challenges (local players come with families that have to be managed, even I would admit we are a relatively demanding fanbase, and the TV exposure is good, but not great).

But, we do have a generous donor base and passionate fans who will back a team that is good enough to warrant full buy in. Plus the natural recruiting base is solid gold.

It's not an easy job I would say, but a job that would look easy in the right hands...

But it's a damn GOOD job. And you nailed the reasons why!

It is one of the easiest jobs purely basketball-wise and yes, I figured someone was going to bring up the administrating skills as far as dealing with parents etc but I was talking about just recruiting and being a coach on the court, it’s not s hard job

Maybe easy - with those qualifiers. But all the other comes with it. Fact is, 3 of our last 4 coaches have not lived up to the job expectations. So it's not simply one of the easiest.

Pastner had it going, he was just to unwilling to grow as a person and a coach to continue his wave of initial success.

(12-15-2017 12:06 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:32 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  Far assessment. Different coaches are good for different programs.

Pastner: good coach, bad fit
Tubby: good coach, bad fit

What are the traits (not a name, but traits) a new Memphis coach should have?

Some that come to mind:

1. Enjoys, or at least values recruiting
2. Can speak to the players recruiting, can connect with Memphis talent on a personal level.
3. Runs a high energy, aggressive system that takes advantage of the natural talent (quick talented guards) that is the base of Memphis' recruiting base.
4. Understands what the fans want, and what the expectations are (quality aggressive hoops, with a 2nd weekend NCAA trip every 3rd year or so).

I mean, if I had to pick a name, I'd love Shaka Smart, but I'd love to be rich too and that's also not happening.

Anyone else got ideas on traits the new Memphis coach should have post-Tubby (whenever that is)?

Simple. You need to recruit well and that includes keeping local talent. Memphis fans pride themselves that top 100 local/regional recruits stay home. Even Calipari kept some local talent as well as recruiting players out of the state. Just be decent in coaching and you can win 20+ games every year.

One of the easiest jobs in the country.

I don't think it is one of the easiest jobs in the country. It has it's challenges (local players come with families that have to be managed, even I would admit we are a relatively demanding fanbase, and the TV exposure is good, but not great).

But, we do have a generous donor base and passionate fans who will back a team that is good enough to warrant full buy in. Plus the natural recruiting base is solid gold.

It's not an easy job I would say, but a job that would look easy in the right hands...

But it's a damn GOOD job. And you nailed the reasons why!

It is one of the easiest jobs purely basketball-wise and yes, I figured someone was going to bring up the administrating skills as far as dealing with parents etc but I was talking about just recruiting and being a coach on the court, it’s not s hard job

Maybe easy - with those qualifiers. But all the other comes with it. Fact is, 3 of our last 4 coaches have not lived up to the job expectations. So it's not simply one of the easiest.

It's an easy job if you know what you are doing. I am retired now and I don't claim that what I did for a living is comparable to coaching intricacies. I do know that there is a process by which things are done and when things are done properly it gives you the desired results.

Pastner was a go-getter in recruiting but had trouble delegating and taking advice. Tubby's philosophy of coaching them' up and playing conservative doesn't play well in Memphis when fans are accustomed to seeing talented players moving aggressively with the ball. Either way, they're not a good fit.

(12-15-2017 12:16 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 12:06 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 04:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 03:32 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Simple. You need to recruit well and that includes keeping local talent. Memphis fans pride themselves that top 100 local/regional recruits stay home. Even Calipari kept some local talent as well as recruiting players out of the state. Just be decent in coaching and you can win 20+ games every year.

One of the easiest jobs in the country.

I don't think it is one of the easiest jobs in the country. It has it's challenges (local players come with families that have to be managed, even I would admit we are a relatively demanding fanbase, and the TV exposure is good, but not great).

But, we do have a generous donor base and passionate fans who will back a team that is good enough to warrant full buy in. Plus the natural recruiting base is solid gold.

It's not an easy job I would say, but a job that would look easy in the right hands...

But it's a damn GOOD job. And you nailed the reasons why!

It is one of the easiest jobs purely basketball-wise and yes, I figured someone was going to bring up the administrating skills as far as dealing with parents etc but I was talking about just recruiting and being a coach on the court, it’s not s hard job

Maybe easy - with those qualifiers. But all the other comes with it. Fact is, 3 of our last 4 coaches have not lived up to the job expectations. So it's not simply one of the easiest.

Pastner had it going, he was just to unwilling to grow as a person and a coach to continue his wave of initial success.

Funny part is, now that he has tasted some humility, it is more likely he will succeed at Tech. He went and hired experienced assistants (including a 10 year HC).

Looks like he finally learned the big lesson. No man is an island, and surround yourself with smart people without being threatened.

http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2016/05/...ers-staff/

I think he'll do well at GT and have high hopes for a guy who represented us well and with class.

But don't get confused, I like the guy, but I'm thrilled he's gone. It wasn't going to happen here for him or us. Both sides are better off without the other.