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Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned......
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned......
(01-10-2018 11:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 04:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 03:07 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 06:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  In most discussions about the future of Notre Dame football, I see a consistent theme. Many posters look at ND's stance and assume that it could, and inevitably would, change if the money was right. They also assume that pursuit of national championships in football is the foremost consideration.

But as someone pointed out, the priests at ND have their own agenda, and it might not consider either of those things to be at or near the top of their list. People have underestimated the resolve of those leaders to put academic interests first for as long as I have heard the cynics.

When you have been saying something for fifty years, and backed your words with your actions, maybe you deserve to be believed and not cynically questioned.

I don't think it's a cynical question to ask.

I don't underestimate at all that academic concerns come first or that they should come first. I just don't understand how independence would or could preserve academic integrity.

Of the schools in this country that field athletic programs, virtually all of them are in a conference. Would it be fair to assume then that those schools don't put academic concerns first? No, I don't think that would be fair at all. So the question is, what about Notre Dame would make them unique in that regard?

Perhaps there is an answer to that question, but I just haven't heard one yet.



I think that it is a marketing issue regarding independence, not an academic one.

Football independence has nothing to do with academics.

My only statement on academics was that ND will not lessen its internal academic standards for football players in order to try to compete for the playoffs. I think that is not in doubt.

ND thinks being independent and playing in stadiums (some of them NFL stadiums in large cities)all over the country is a better way to market the school than to be "regionalized" in a football conference and be required to play 8-9 conference games.

Other schools think being in conference is the best method to use their football teams to market their schools.

Same goal but different strategies, thats all.

I've always felt the "regional" aspect was specious and ignored reality. Yes, Notre Dame has tended to play a more national schedule than just about anyone else. But that mostly meant they took a long train trip to play USC and play someone in the South. In reality their schedule in the 60s and 70s was still pretty regional. 6 to 8 of their 10 or 11 games were in the Chicago to Boston corridor, geographically, the Big 10 region.

The truly national schedule Notre Dame plays now didn't happen until Notre Dame got the NBC TV contract. The schedule looks like a made for TV model. Now that still can be considered "marketing," but its also about money.

Two things. First, the "Chicago to Boston corridor" was not "the Big 10 region" in 1960. The "Big 10 region" stopped about 6 hours from Chicago, at the OH/PA border. Games against Pitt, Temple, Syracuse, Army, and BC were outside Big 10 territory.

Even today, the "Big 10 region" still doesn't include New England (which may be "the North" but is as different from NY State as Miami is from Tallahassee).

Second, ND did play a national schedule back then.
1960 Notre Dame schedule (6 of the 10 games are outside the Big 10 region)
California
Purdue
North Carolina
Michigan State
Northwestern
Navy
Pitt
Miami (FL)
Iowa
USC
(no bowl game)
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 12:01 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
01-11-2018 12:01 PM
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Post: #92
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned......
(01-11-2018 12:01 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 11:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 04:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 03:07 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 06:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  In most discussions about the future of Notre Dame football, I see a consistent theme. Many posters look at ND's stance and assume that it could, and inevitably would, change if the money was right. They also assume that pursuit of national championships in football is the foremost consideration.

But as someone pointed out, the priests at ND have their own agenda, and it might not consider either of those things to be at or near the top of their list. People have underestimated the resolve of those leaders to put academic interests first for as long as I have heard the cynics.

When you have been saying something for fifty years, and backed your words with your actions, maybe you deserve to be believed and not cynically questioned.

I don't think it's a cynical question to ask.

I don't underestimate at all that academic concerns come first or that they should come first. I just don't understand how independence would or could preserve academic integrity.

Of the schools in this country that field athletic programs, virtually all of them are in a conference. Would it be fair to assume then that those schools don't put academic concerns first? No, I don't think that would be fair at all. So the question is, what about Notre Dame would make them unique in that regard?

Perhaps there is an answer to that question, but I just haven't heard one yet.



I think that it is a marketing issue regarding independence, not an academic one.

Football independence has nothing to do with academics.

My only statement on academics was that ND will not lessen its internal academic standards for football players in order to try to compete for the playoffs. I think that is not in doubt.

ND thinks being independent and playing in stadiums (some of them NFL stadiums in large cities)all over the country is a better way to market the school than to be "regionalized" in a football conference and be required to play 8-9 conference games.

Other schools think being in conference is the best method to use their football teams to market their schools.

Same goal but different strategies, thats all.

I've always felt the "regional" aspect was specious and ignored reality. Yes, Notre Dame has tended to play a more national schedule than just about anyone else. But that mostly meant they took a long train trip to play USC and play someone in the South. In reality their schedule in the 60s and 70s was still pretty regional. 6 to 8 of their 10 or 11 games were in the Chicago to Boston corridor, geographically, the Big 10 region.

The truly national schedule Notre Dame plays now didn't happen until Notre Dame got the NBC TV contract. The schedule looks like a made for TV model. Now that still can be considered "marketing," but its also about money.

Two things. First, the "Chicago to Boston corridor" was not "the Big 10 region" in 1960. The "Big 10 region" stopped about 6 hours from Chicago, at the OH/PA border. Games against Pitt, Temple, Syracuse, Army, and BC were outside Big 10 territory.

Even today, the "Big 10 region" still doesn't include New England (which may be "the North" but is as different from NY State as Miami is from Tallahassee).

Second, ND did play a national schedule back then.
1960 Notre Dame schedule (6 of the 10 games are outside the Big 10 region)
California
Purdue
North Carolina
Michigan State
Northwestern
Navy
Pitt
Miami (FL)
Iowa
USC
(no bowl game)

6 of 10 in what is now Big 10 territory. And Chicago to Boston is as regional as Baton Rouge to Lexington to Gainesville or Seattle to Los Angeles to Boulder.

During that era they played Northwestern (later replaced by Michigan), Purdue, Michigan St., Pitt and Navy every year (or nearly) along with USC. Army also showed up on their schedule along with other Big 10 teams and BC later became a regular.

Their 1966 championship team had those 6 regulars + Army, Oklahoma, Duke and North Carolina. Only Oklahoma and USC were played outside IL, IN or MI.

In 2006, they had Michigan St., Purdue, Penn St., Navy, Michigan, and Army, but 6 games outside the region-USC, Air Force, UCLA, Stanford, North Carolina and Georgia Tech, so they had made it more "national" and they did play in Los Angeles, Atlanta and Colorado Springs, in addition to playing in IN, MI and Baltimore for the Navy game.
01-11-2018 10:12 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #93
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned......
Well, whether it was a national schedule then (I, like Captain Bearcat think it was), it is one now.

ND doesn't want to change that for any reason unless a double barrel shotgun is placed between their eyes (P4 champs only playoff).
01-12-2018 11:56 AM
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