But emails among top transition officials, provided or described to The New York Times, suggest that Mr. Flynn was far from a rogue actor. In fact, the emails, coupled with interviews and court documents filed on Friday, showed that Mr. Flynn was in close touch with other senior members of the Trump transition team both before and after he spoke with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, about American sanctions against Russia.

Link

Flynn claims he was lied to on Feb. 9th but the emails sent to practically everyone on Trump's team explained what Flynn was doing with the russians on Dec. 29th.

Lies, lies, lies.

We knew Trump was a liar but now we know everyone else lied about Flynn.

I seem to remember someone on this forum was still clinging to the lie that Trump fired Flynn because he lied to Pence.

Was that you Superfly?

So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

(12-12-2017 03:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

(12-12-2017 03:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

Oh goodie!! Hillary is president now!

I’m with Her!

(12-12-2017 03:30 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

(12-12-2017 03:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:30 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

I guess no one can answer this question.

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:30 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So this is stuff that happened after the election, during transition?

And I guess my first question is would we rather have good relations or bad with Russia?

And I still question the integrity of democrats who maintained that there was no Russian hacking of Hillary's uncovered server, but that hacking Podesta's emails is somehow a major national security issue. Can anyone reconcile those two positions?

I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

I guess no one can answer this question.

The answer is in your article. Pence not named as one that was on the email chain.

(12-13-2017 11:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:30 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I don't know when this administration started making plans with Russia to lift the sanctions.

According to the article however, those plans were known since at least Dec. 29th. Which throws into question the account that Pence first stated which was that he didn't find out that Flynn lied to him until Jan. 9th.

No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

I guess no one can answer this question.

The answer is in your article. Pence not named as one that was on the email chain.

So then we are going to assume that everyone except Pence knew that Flynn was going to talk to the Russians about sanctions.

Is that the story you are going to go with?

Maybe I am naive to any laws broken here but it clearly says that the presidential transition teams are encouraged to began talks with foreign governments prior to being in office, which they did. No problem there that I see? It also states that Obama "requested" Trumps transition team to not confuse the Russian sanctions, so if they began early talks about lifting certain sanctions or trying to improve a relationship is that illegal? It appears from those two points, it was frowned upon by Obama's team, but was there a law broken by Trump's team to discuss it?

Only law I see broken was Flynn lying to the FBI which he was fired for and admitted to. Which is a much more admirable action than what we saw by the spawn of satan(H. Clinton) who chose to deny deny deny to law makers despite the mounds of evidence proving otherwise.

Further, Pence is not implicated in any of this story so your assumptions have no validity. You can speculate all you want but it holds no water, not yet anyways.

(12-14-2017 12:10 PM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Maybe I am naive to any laws broken here but it clearly says that the presidential transition teams are encouraged to began talks with foreign governments prior to being in office, which they did. No problem there that I see? It also states that Obama "requested" Trumps transition team to not confuse the Russian sanctions, so if they began early talks about lifting certain sanctions or trying to improve a relationship is that illegal? It appears from those two points, it was frowned upon by Obama's team, but was there a law broken by Trump's team to discuss it?

Only law I see broken was Flynn lying to the FBI which he was fired for and admitted to. Which is a much more admirable action than what we saw by the spawn of satan(H. Clinton) who chose to deny deny deny to law makers despite the mounds of evidence proving otherwise.

Further, Pence is not implicated in any of this story so your assumptions have no validity. You can speculate all you want but it holds no water, not yet anyways.

There is nothing illegal about beginning communications with foreign nations before you take office.

There is some speculation however about undermining the actions of a sitting president before you take office. That said, I don't think anyone is going in that direction.

The issue here is that Russia was actively attempting to influence the election and it appears that the Trump administration knew about it and did nothing or possibly cooperated with the Russians. Whether or not there is enough evidence remains to be seen.

What is more likely the case is that the Trump administration did nothing technically illegal but in the process attempted to hide the fact from the government.

This seems to be where the Muller investigation is going. Not collusion with Russia but rather Obstruction of Justice.

As for Pence, the fact that they lied about what Pence knew only adds to the speculation that the Administration had something to hide.

For example. Did you know that Trump still won't disclose when he found out that Flynn lied to the FBI?

I mean this is a knowable thing but he ain't talking.

(12-12-2017 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But emails among top transition officials, provided or described to The New York Times, suggest that Mr. Flynn was far from a rogue actor. In fact, the emails, coupled with interviews and court documents filed on Friday, showed that Mr. Flynn was in close touch with other senior members of the Trump transition team both before and after he spoke with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, about American sanctions against Russia.

Link

Flynn claims he was lied to on Feb. 9th but the emails sent to practically everyone on Trump's team explained what Flynn was doing with the russians on Dec. 29th.

Lies, lies, lies.

We knew Trump was a liar but now we know everyone else lied about Flynn.

Blind link to the failing new york times

(12-14-2017 01:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:10 PM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Maybe I am naive to any laws broken here but it clearly says that the presidential transition teams are encouraged to began talks with foreign governments prior to being in office, which they did. No problem there that I see? It also states that Obama "requested" Trumps transition team to not confuse the Russian sanctions, so if they began early talks about lifting certain sanctions or trying to improve a relationship is that illegal? It appears from those two points, it was frowned upon by Obama's team, but was there a law broken by Trump's team to discuss it?

Only law I see broken was Flynn lying to the FBI which he was fired for and admitted to. Which is a much more admirable action than what we saw by the spawn of satan(H. Clinton) who chose to deny deny deny to law makers despite the mounds of evidence proving otherwise.

Further, Pence is not implicated in any of this story so your assumptions have no validity. You can speculate all you want but it holds no water, not yet anyways.

There is nothing illegal about beginning communications with foreign nations before you take office.

There is some speculation however about undermining the actions of a sitting president before you take office. That said, I don't think anyone is going in that direction.

The issue here is that Russia was actively attempting to influence the election and it appears that the Trump administration knew about it and did nothing or possibly cooperated with the Russians. Whether or not there is enough evidence remains to be seen.

What is more likely the case is that the Trump administration did nothing technically illegal but in the process attempted to hide the fact from the government.

This seems to be where the Muller investigation is going. Not collusion with Russia but rather Obstruction of Justice.

As for Pence, the fact that they lied about what Pence knew only adds to the speculation that the Administration had something to hide.

For example. Did you know that Trump still won't disclose when he found out that Flynn lied to the FBI?

I mean this is a knowable thing but he ain't talking.

So basically this another article, which numbers in the thousands, really just boiling down to Trump colluding to win the election. Which hasn't been proven after months of investigation. And the article, as well as your arguments, are based purely off trying to connect dots and speculating? Got it.

Again, nothing illegal has been proven in this article or anywhere else in this investigation as far as collusion goes. And as far as Trump not telling the FBI when he knew Flynn lied, that also isn't illegal. The FBI cannot force anyone to tell them something. It's not illegal for an individual to choose to not speak to the FBI.

(12-14-2017 01:57 PM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:10 PM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Maybe I am naive to any laws broken here but it clearly says that the presidential transition teams are encouraged to began talks with foreign governments prior to being in office, which they did. No problem there that I see? It also states that Obama "requested" Trumps transition team to not confuse the Russian sanctions, so if they began early talks about lifting certain sanctions or trying to improve a relationship is that illegal? It appears from those two points, it was frowned upon by Obama's team, but was there a law broken by Trump's team to discuss it?

Only law I see broken was Flynn lying to the FBI which he was fired for and admitted to. Which is a much more admirable action than what we saw by the spawn of satan(H. Clinton) who chose to deny deny deny to law makers despite the mounds of evidence proving otherwise.

Further, Pence is not implicated in any of this story so your assumptions have no validity. You can speculate all you want but it holds no water, not yet anyways.

There is nothing illegal about beginning communications with foreign nations before you take office.

There is some speculation however about undermining the actions of a sitting president before you take office. That said, I don't think anyone is going in that direction.

The issue here is that Russia was actively attempting to influence the election and it appears that the Trump administration knew about it and did nothing or possibly cooperated with the Russians. Whether or not there is enough evidence remains to be seen.

What is more likely the case is that the Trump administration did nothing technically illegal but in the process attempted to hide the fact from the government.

This seems to be where the Muller investigation is going. Not collusion with Russia but rather Obstruction of Justice.

As for Pence, the fact that they lied about what Pence knew only adds to the speculation that the Administration had something to hide.

For example. Did you know that Trump still won't disclose when he found out that Flynn lied to the FBI?

I mean this is a knowable thing but he ain't talking.

So basically this another article, which numbers in the thousands, really just boiling down to Trump colluding to win the election. Which hasn't been proven after months of investigation. And the article, as well as your arguments, are based purely off trying to connect dots and speculating? Got it.

Again, nothing illegal has been proven in this article or anywhere else in this investigation as far as collusion goes. And as far as Trump not telling the FBI when he knew Flynn lied, that also isn't illegal. The FBI cannot force anyone to tell them something. It's not illegal for an individual to choose to not speak to the FBI.

The general public does not know the facts of the case. For all we know, the FBI already has enough information to prove collusion or obstruction of justice. We haven't heard from them yet.

I don't get how all of you could already come to a conclusion when the investigation isn't even over yet.

You're exactly right, we don't know. So each one of these "Gotcha!" articles you post trying to prove a link to collusion are all speculation and tossing piles of crap against the wall to see if it sticks.

The funny thing is you accusing us considering them innocent of collusion when it's the investigation teams job, liberals jobs, law enforcement's job to prove otherwise. I know you probably have a distorted view of how law works in this country because libs manipulate it any time they can, but it's not Trump's teams job to prove their innocent. They are innocent until proven guilty, and despite the entire Dem Party, most of the Repub party, and most of the Federal Law Enforcement communities efforts to wreck his presidency, zero collusion has been proven as of now.

So until further notice

(12-14-2017 11:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:30 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  No it doesn't. There's nothing in the article that says Pence asked Flynn prior to 1/9. It's entirely possible that Flynn didn't have any interaction with Pence between 12/29 and 1/9.

But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

I guess no one can answer this question.

The answer is in your article. Pence not named as one that was on the email chain.

So then we are going to assume that everyone except Pence knew that Flynn was going to talk to the Russians about sanctions.

Is that the story you are going to go with?

We don't know that everyone except Pence knew. We know the 6 people on the email chain knew.

Look I head up teams of individuals on various projects everyday. Granted none as complicated as setting up a new administration, but in one way that only furthers my point. I don't ask for daily updates or prgress reports on every project. I put people in place that know how to do their job or know how to get the answer if they don't know it. It's entirely possible that Pence didn't find out until the 9th, especially given that I doubt much happened over New Years weekend.

(12-12-2017 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But emails among top transition officials, provided or described to The New York Times, suggest that Mr. Flynn was far from a rogue actor. In fact, the emails, coupled with interviews and court documents filed on Friday, showed that Mr. Flynn was in close touch with other senior members of the Trump transition team both before and after he spoke with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, about American sanctions against Russia.

Link

Flynn claims he was lied to on Feb. 9th but the emails sent to practically everyone on Trump's team explained what Flynn was doing with the russians on Dec. 29th.

Lies, lies, lies.

We knew Trump was a liar but now we know everyone else lied about Flynn.

Remember the name Michael Horowitz

Ask yourself why is this relevant?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(12-14-2017 04:42 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 11:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 03:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  But wasn't Pence heading the Transition team? The email was forwarded, according to the article, to many on his transition team.

Are we to believe that everyone else except Pence knew that Flynn was going to Russia to talk to the Russians?

Was everyone else lying to Pence?

I guess no one can answer this question.

The answer is in your article. Pence not named as one that was on the email chain.

So then we are going to assume that everyone except Pence knew that Flynn was going to talk to the Russians about sanctions.

Is that the story you are going to go with?

We don't know that everyone except Pence knew. We know the 6 people on the email chain knew.

Look I head up teams of individuals on various projects everyday. Granted none as complicated as setting up a new administration, but in one way that only furthers my point. I don't ask for daily updates or prgress reports on every project. I put people in place that know how to do their job or know how to get the answer if they don't know it. It's entirely possible that Pence didn't find out until the 9th, especially given that I doubt much happened over New Years weekend.

Minor point - being on an email chain is not evidence that person knew the contents of the email.