http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/gonz...e997f.html

While Gonzaga checks a lot of boxes for Big East membership - institutional profile, rich basketball program and tradition, great fan base, new market - it simply is too far outside the footprint of the current conference geography. Much of the risk would come on Gonzaga's end, however - as it would be their fans and student-athletes that would be making routine trips to the Midwest and East Coast, whereas the Big East schools would only head out to Spokane once.

Unless there is a new rule under the NCAA that allows basketball-only membership for conference, I would think what Gonzaga did this season (home game against Creighton and away game against Villanova at Madison Square Garden) would be the way to pursue a scheduling agreement/alliance with the Big East. Get two teams every year, one home and one away.

(12-12-2017 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/gonz...e997f.html

While Gonzaga checks a lot of boxes for Big East membership - institutional profile, rich basketball program and tradition, great fan base, new market - it simply is too far outside the footprint of the current conference geography. Much of the risk would come on Gonzaga's end, however - as it would be their fans and student-athletes that would be making routine trips to the Midwest and East Coast, whereas the Big East schools would only head out to Spokane once.

Unless there is a new rule under the NCAA that allows basketball-only membership for conference, I would think what Gonzaga did this season (home game against Creighton and away game against Villanova at Madison Square Garden) would be the way to pursue a scheduling agreement/alliance with the Big East. Get two teams every year, one home and one away.

I agree. Even a basketball only membership makes no sense. A better move for the Zags would be to join the MWC, which features a number of schools with solid attendance and tradition.

(12-12-2017 10:49 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/gonz...e997f.html

While Gonzaga checks a lot of boxes for Big East membership - institutional profile, rich basketball program and tradition, great fan base, new market - it simply is too far outside the footprint of the current conference geography. Much of the risk would come on Gonzaga's end, however - as it would be their fans and student-athletes that would be making routine trips to the Midwest and East Coast, whereas the Big East schools would only head out to Spokane once.

Unless there is a new rule under the NCAA that allows basketball-only membership for conference, I would think what Gonzaga did this season (home game against Creighton and away game against Villanova at Madison Square Garden) would be the way to pursue a scheduling agreement/alliance with the Big East. Get two teams every year, one home and one away.

I agree. Even a basketball only membership makes no sense. A better move for the Zags would be to join the MWC, which features a number of schools with solid attendance and tradition.

true. it feels like the MWC is back from the slump they've been on last few years.

I would love for Gonzaga to be a part of the Big East, but it won't happen. The only hope would be for a much larger Big East that included Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU, maybe a couple other WCC schools, and Saint Louis - which won't happen.

Realistically, but still a stretch, Gonzaga could seek non-football membership in the PAC and schedule WCC and Big East schools in non-conference.

The MWC wouldn't be a strong enough conference to consider at the moment. The WCC gets 2-3 schools in the tournament every year. Lately, the MWC has been very inconsistent. With San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV, Colorado St, and New Mexico along with Wyoming and Boise St, the MWC should get 3-4 in every year.

(12-12-2017 11:02 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I would love for Gonzaga to be a part of the Big East, but it won't happen. The only hope would be for a much larger Big East that included Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU, maybe a couple other WCC schools, and Saint Louis - which won't happen.

Realistically, but still a stretch, Gonzaga could seek non-football membership in the PAC and schedule WCC and Big East schools in non-conference.

The MWC wouldn't be a strong enough conference to consider at the moment. The WCC gets 2-3 schools in the tournament every year. Lately, the MWC has been very inconsistent. With San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV, Colorado St, and New Mexico along with Wyoming and Boise St, the MWC should get 3-4 in every year.

The WCC has gotten in last 4 years 2,2,1,2 teams in the tourney. So hardly great. 2 of the 3 at larges were 10 and 11 seeds. St Mary's this year could easily miss the tourney. Only once since BYU came in did the WCC get 3 teams in(and there, BYU was one of the FF). So hardly good. MWC in last 4 years has gotten 2,3,1,1 teams in the tourney.

(12-12-2017 11:10 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The WCC has gotten in last 4 years 2,2,1,2 teams in the tourney. So hardly great. 2 of the 3 at larges were 10 and 11 seeds. St Mary's this year could easily miss the tourney. Only once since BYU came in did the WCC get 3 teams in(and there, BYU was one of the FF). So hardly good. MWC in last 4 years has gotten 2,3,1,1 teams in the tourney.

great summary as to why the change would not be needed. you can get an at large in WCC so what benefit is there to switch to MWC?

(12-12-2017 11:14 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 11:10 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The WCC has gotten in last 4 years 2,2,1,2 teams in the tourney. So hardly great. 2 of the 3 at larges were 10 and 11 seeds. St Mary's this year could easily miss the tourney. Only once since BYU came in did the WCC get 3 teams in(and there, BYU was one of the FF). So hardly good. MWC in last 4 years has gotten 2,3,1,1 teams in the tourney.

great summary as to why the change would not be needed. you can get an at large in WCC so what benefit is there to switch to MWC?

SOS would be so much better in MWC than in WCC....

WCC this year for instance, Gonzaga is projected to have these RPI opponents-
49.6 St Mary's
73.8 BYU
117.5 San Diego
164 San Francisco
212.9 Pacific
232.9 Loyola Marymount
252.2 Santa Clara
276.7 Pepperdine
277.4 Portland

MWC has these other teams-
21.7 Nevada
49.8 Boise St
72.6 San Diego St
73.3 UNLV
81.9 Fresno St
122.8 Wyoming
156.4 Utah St
188.6 Colorado St
205.3 New Mexico
283.5 Air Force
302.5 San Jose St

you say MWC has 4 dog teams. while true, with 12 teams, the MWC could then schedule Gonzaga where they'd see those teams only once. So only 4 sub 160 games, compared to the 12 that they're facing in the WCC this season.

I don't think Gonzaga's likely to wind up in the Big East, but I do think the Big East is going to wind up expanding by one more school in the near future, and if UConn doesn't jump it's not out of the question to imagine that the Big East shrugs and simply takes what's by far the strongest basketball program available even with the geographic challenges it would entail.

Gonzaga doesn't need the Mountain West to get at-large bids.

Even for Saint Mary's or BYU hypothetically being in the MWC, what's the argument? That playing two more teams that are still not quite good enough for at-large consideration, and one fewer team in the bottom half of D-I power rankings, would be enough to put them on the right side of the bubble? Those are marginal gains, and you need a lot more than marginal gains to justify a conference move that, as it is, would only benefit the men's basketball team.

(12-12-2017 12:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Gonzaga doesn't need the Mountain West to get at-large bids.

Even for Saint Mary's or BYU hypothetically being in the MWC, what's the argument? That playing two more teams that are still not quite good enough for at-large consideration, and one fewer team in the bottom half of D-I power rankings, would be enough to put them on the right side of the bubble? Those are marginal gains, and you need a lot more than marginal gains to justify a conference move that, as it is, would only benefit the men's basketball team.

but it can help for seeding. No longer would they win conference and be stuck like a few years ago with a 11 seed...

avg opponent this year in WCC would be 184.11
doing schedule in MWC with missing 4 worst teams 2x 118.72

that's hardly a marginal gain there.

by the new RPI rules- remember the tiers are now different-
tier 1 is top 30 home/75 away
tier 2 is 31-75 home/76-135 away
tier 3 is 76-160 home/136-240 away
tier 4 is everything else

in WCC-
tier 1 2 games
tier 2 3 games
tier 3 4 games
tier 4 9 games

in MWC-
tier 1- 5 games
tier 2- 6 games
tier 3- 4 games(assuming split between Colorado St/New Mexico)
tier 4- 3 games

a pretty huge difference there I'd say.

Not having the round robin would be huge.

(12-12-2017 12:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Gonzaga doesn't need the Mountain West to get at-large bids.

Even for Saint Mary's or BYU hypothetically being in the MWC, what's the argument? That playing two more teams that are still not quite good enough for at-large consideration, and one fewer team in the bottom half of D-I power rankings, would be enough to put them on the right side of the bubble? Those are marginal gains, and you need a lot more than marginal gains to justify a conference move that, as it is, would only benefit the men's basketball team.

Gonzaga seems to be doing just fine where they are. Sometimes, you just have to accept that where you are is where you should be.

(12-12-2017 01:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 12:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Gonzaga doesn't need the Mountain West to get at-large bids.

Even for Saint Mary's or BYU hypothetically being in the MWC, what's the argument? That playing two more teams that are still not quite good enough for at-large consideration, and one fewer team in the bottom half of D-I power rankings, would be enough to put them on the right side of the bubble? Those are marginal gains, and you need a lot more than marginal gains to justify a conference move that, as it is, would only benefit the men's basketball team.

Gonzaga seems to be doing just fine where they are. Sometimes, you just have to accept that where you are is where you should be.

i think if they start getting hurt more and more in seeding than they may look otherwise. Especially if something were to happen and St Mary's fell back somewhat.

I like Gonzaga A.D. Mike Roth's response about GU and the Big East
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/de...ed-or-the/

“We’re very much alike when you think about it. The thing that hasn’t changed is we haven’t moved and they haven’t invented teleporting.”

You wonder if this is a nudge to Fox to give them some numbers on what adding Gonzaga would do to a share, and whether there could be some extra change made for all to have to consider the geographic challenges for conference travel.

Like, we know we're a good match for each other, but help this work.

I think the travel issue can be a little overstated. Because of lacrosse, the footprint extends to Denver (and I think DU could be a good bet for member #12 if it means getting Gonzaga aboard).

Gonzaga belongs in a bigger conference. Like Butler in the Horizon days, they have gone as far as they can go, and need a bigger stage. They fit every criteria of the Big East except for that location and the teleporting issue.

Unless the Pac-12, already a very successful hoops conference, decides to add a Jesuit school without football (OK end of fantasy), I think Gonzaga is stuck for awhile.

As for this SMC talk, I think you guys need to visit Moraga to see how tiny that school is. Much of the WCC play in glorified HS gyms, SMC included.

From reading the article, it sounds more like there will be some sort of scheduling agreement for OOC games. Maybe Gonzaga and St Mary's getting a guarantee for a couple of home games and a couple of away games each year. A full conference membership - even in mens basketball - only doesn't work. Just the cost of travel eating up any increase in revenue makes it a nonstarter. That doesn't even take into account the mental/physical exhaustion associated with repeated cost to cost travel and play for a season.

(12-12-2017 02:08 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  From reading the article, it sounds more like there will be some sort of scheduling agreement for OOC games. Maybe Gonzaga and St Mary's getting a guarantee for a couple of home games and a couple of away games each year. A full conference membership - even in mens basketball - only doesn't work. Just the cost of travel eating up any increase in revenue makes it a nonstarter. That doesn't even take into account the mental/physical exhaustion associated with repeated cost to cost travel and play for a season.

This is fitting what Doug Elgin of the MVC was talking about, more of the top mid-major programs (although I consider Gonzaga a major in a mid-major league, ditto Wichita State, as these schools produce NBA players with some consistency) to schedule each other in challenge games in January and February to strengthen RPI.

For Gonzaga and the Big East it's more about facing a tough OOC opponent or two later in the season as preparation for the NCAA Tournament. They pretty much know they are getting in. Yes there would definitely be some TV market for that.

Gonzaga to the Big East: a big no.

(12-12-2017 02:30 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:08 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  From reading the article, it sounds more like there will be some sort of scheduling agreement for OOC games. Maybe Gonzaga and St Mary's getting a guarantee for a couple of home games and a couple of away games each year. A full conference membership - even in mens basketball - only doesn't work. Just the cost of travel eating up any increase in revenue makes it a nonstarter. That doesn't even take into account the mental/physical exhaustion associated with repeated cost to cost travel and play for a season.

This is fitting what Doug Elgin of the MVC was talking about, more of the top mid-major programs (although I consider Gonzaga a major in a mid-major league, ditto Wichita State, as these schools produce NBA players with some consistency) to schedule each other in challenge games in January and February to strengthen RPI.

For Gonzaga and the Big East it's more about facing a tough OOC opponent of two later in the season as preparation for the NCAA Tournament. They pretty much know they are getting in. Yes there would definitely be some TV market for that.

The WCC and the current AAC aren't the same animal by any stretch of the imagination..... I showed Gonzaga's conference schedule...

Wichita's average conference opponent is 100.20. (184.11)
by tiers-
tier 1- 5 games (2)
tier 2- 6 games (3)
tier 3- 5 games (4)
tier 4- 2 games (9)
() is Gonzaga

yeah, not even remotely close at all whatsoever. AAC should get 4 in pretty easily this year. WCC is going to struggle to get 2 in.

(12-12-2017 11:24 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 11:14 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 11:10 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The WCC has gotten in last 4 years 2,2,1,2 teams in the tourney. So hardly great. 2 of the 3 at larges were 10 and 11 seeds. St Mary's this year could easily miss the tourney. Only once since BYU came in did the WCC get 3 teams in(and there, BYU was one of the FF). So hardly good. MWC in last 4 years has gotten 2,3,1,1 teams in the tourney.

great summary as to why the change would not be needed. you can get an at large in WCC so what benefit is there to switch to MWC?

SOS would be so much better in MWC than in WCC....

WCC this year for instance, Gonzaga is projected to have these RPI opponents-
49.6 St Mary's
73.8 BYU
117.5 San Diego
164 San Francisco
212.9 Pacific
232.9 Loyola Marymount
252.2 Santa Clara
276.7 Pepperdine
277.4 Portland

MWC has these other teams-
21.7 Nevada
49.8 Boise St
72.6 San Diego St
73.3 UNLV
81.9 Fresno St
122.8 Wyoming
156.4 Utah St
188.6 Colorado St
205.3 New Mexico
283.5 Air Force
302.5 San Jose St

you say MWC has 4 dog teams. while true, with 12 teams, the MWC could then schedule Gonzaga where they'd see those teams only once. So only 4 sub 160 games, compared to the 12 that they're facing in the WCC this season.

In addition, two of the weaker MWC conferences this year (CSU and UNM) are traditionally stronger, and especially UNM, average great crowds (11K+)