I think everyone needs to step back and see how the rest of the 2017-2018 season plays out for the Rockets before burying them! While I am disappointed in losing to Marshall in the fashion we did, I do not think it is time to jump ship on the season and Coach K’s career at Toledo. There is a lot to like about this team, especially on the offensive end where we are averaging over 78 points per game. On the flip side, we are giving up almost 80 points per game which is not going to cut it once we get into MAC Play. I truly believe that with what we have shown so far offensively, MAC league foes are going to have a hard time stopping us. However, unless we show improvement on the defensive end, every game is going to be a “shootout” with wins and losses going coming down to a few possessions at the end of games like what happened against Marshall. Let’s see what happens come March. If we end up around 500 like the past 2 seasons, I will be more than happy to have that discussion about the future of Coach K at Toledo.

(12-12-2017 08:27 AM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  I think everyone needs to step back and see how the rest of the 2017-2018 season plays out for the Rockets before burying them! While I am disappointed in losing to Marshall in the fashion we did, I do not think it is time to jump ship on the season and Coach K’s career at Toledo. There is a lot to like about this team, especially on the offensive end where we are averaging over 78 points per game. On the flip side, we are giving up almost 80 points per game which is not going to cut it once we get into MAC Play. I truly believe that with what we have shown so far offensively, MAC league foes are going to have a hard time stopping us. However, unless we show improvement on the defensive end, every game is going to be a “shootout” with wins and losses going coming down to a few possessions at the end of games like what happened against Marshall. Let’s see what happens come March. If we end up around 500 like the past 2 seasons, I will be more than happy to have that discussion about the future of Coach K at Toledo.

I agree 100%! Good post, Basketball Jones!

Its just that we have all seen this movie play out the last few years.

Matador Defense. Short bench leading to gassed players at end of year. Players not developing. Then they transfer out

(12-12-2017 08:27 AM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  I think everyone needs to step back and see how the rest of the 2017-2018 season plays out for the Rockets before burying them! While I am disappointed in losing to Marshall in the fashion we did, I do not think it is time to jump ship on the season and Coach K’s career at Toledo. There is a lot to like about this team, especially on the offensive end where we are averaging over 78 points per game. On the flip side, we are giving up almost 80 points per game which is not going to cut it once we get into MAC Play. I truly believe that with what we have shown so far offensively, MAC league foes are going to have a hard time stopping us. However, unless we show improvement on the defensive end, every game is going to be a “shootout” with wins and losses going coming down to a few possessions at the end of games like what happened against Marshall. Let’s see what happens come March. If we end up around 500 like the past 2 seasons, I will be more than happy to have that discussion about the future of Coach K at Toledo.

Very well said. I agree that it's not time to bury this team yet, especially with how "meh" the MAC is again this year, but that collapse on Saturday was tough to watch. The depth on this team is not good and hopefully Willie Jackson being eligible helps with that. If a solid rotation takes shape in the conference season, I think this roster has the talent to go against anybody in the MAC.

Above all, the team needs to improve its consistency. Even with the depth issues, there's plenty of experience on the roster and no reason for such fluctuation from game-to-game (Syracuse and Cornell, for example) or even from different times within the same game or half (second half vs. Marshall).

I had high hopes with Sanford, Knapke, and Navigato entering their third years to go along with Fletcher and Jackson's big conference experience. Obviously, things haven't gone as well, but they still have that potential in conference play.

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

+1
Also we have not even seen possibly the best player on the team play yet shame on you if you bale on this team.

(12-12-2017 08:52 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

+1
Also we have not even seen possibly the best player on the team play yet shame on you if you bale on this team.

What in the world would make you think that W. Jackson will be the best player on the team?

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

Human nature being what it is UT fans naturally tend to focus on UT transfers out and tend to ignore what is happening with other teams. It not something that I am going to get too worked up about unless players are being actively forced out against their will by the coaching staff. After a 38 year drought w/r to the NCAA I no longer take UT MBB all that seriously anyway. The point is that Coach K seems to doing well enough to keep his job, but just not quite well enough to ever get over the top and win a MACC tournament. This is exactly the way it was with Stan, and but for that point shaving scandal, Stan might still be coaching the Rockets----who knows?

(12-12-2017 10:39 PM)Dwight Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 08:52 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

+1
Also we have not even seen possibly the best player on the team play yet shame on you if you bale on this team.

What in the world would make you think that W. Jackson will be the best player on the team?

Possibly the fact that he was a freshman starter for an SEC team? It’s certainly not out of the question that he may prove to be better than Fletcher or Sanford. I have my doubts but I have none that he will make us a better team.

(12-13-2017 12:15 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 10:39 PM)Dwight Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 08:52 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 02:27 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  ...Then they transfer out

That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

+1
Also we have not even seen possibly the best player on the team play yet shame on you if you bale on this team.

What in the world would make you think that W. Jackson will be the best player on the team?

Possibly the fact that he was a freshman starter for an SEC team? It’s certainly not out of the question that he may prove to be better than Fletcher or Sanford. I have my doubts but I have none that he will make us a better team.

Jackson played in 11 games (only played first semester), started none, and was 9th on the team in minutes per game. Yes, Missouri did play in the SEC, but they didn't belong there. They were 2-16 in conference. I'm guessing the Rockets could have finished 2-16 in the SEC. I agree that Jackson will help the thin Rockets, but no way is he our best player right now. Maybe by his senior year he'll be better than Fletcher. Below is the link to Missouri's stats for last year.

By the way, two other MAC teams got transfers from Missouri who played more than Jackson. Wes Clark started 25 games for Missouri in 2015-16 and will be eligible to play second semester this year for Buffalo. This will be his only year of eligibility. K.J. Walton started 17 games for Missouri in 2016-17. His minutes per game and points per game were better than Jackson's. He will be eligible next season to play for Ball State as a redshirt junior.

http://unimissouri_ftp.sidearmsports.com...verall.pdf

(12-13-2017 08:14 AM)Dwight Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 12:15 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 10:39 PM)Dwight Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 08:52 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 06:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  That's CBB nowadays. EVERY team averages 2 transfers out per year. Transfer are not just a UT problem, even though everyone likes to think it is.

+1
Also we have not even seen possibly the best player on the team play yet shame on you if you bale on this team.

What in the world would make you think that W. Jackson will be the best player on the team?

Possibly the fact that he was a freshman starter for an SEC team? It’s certainly not out of the question that he may prove to be better than Fletcher or Sanford. I have my doubts but I have none that he will make us a better team.

Jackson played in 11 games (only played first semester), started none, and was 9th on the team in minutes per game. Yes, Missouri did play in the SEC, but they didn't belong there. They were 2-16 in conference. I'm guessing the Rockets could have finished 2-16 in the SEC. I agree that Jackson will help the thin Rockets, but no way is he our best player right now. Maybe by his senior year he'll be better than Fletcher. Below is the link to Missouri's stats for last year.

By the way, two other MAC teams got transfers from Missouri who played more than Jackson. Wes Clark started 25 games for Missouri in 2015-16 and will be eligible to play second semester this year for Buffalo. This will be his only year of eligibility. K.J. Walton started 17 games for Missouri in 2016-17. His minutes per game and points per game were better than Jackson's. He will be eligible next season to play for Ball State as a redshirt junior.

http://unimissouri_ftp.sidearmsports.com...verall.pdf

OK, sure, if you want to use facts. Seriously, I thought I read that he had started some games.

I think that talent-wise, Willie Jackson can only help this team. Regardless of his stats at Missouri, he will be the closest thing we have to a low-post offensive threat (I do appreciate Adway’s efforts there—wish he had gained more experience the past couple years). As I’ve said before, my concern is if TK really shortens his bench when Willie becomes eligible.

Jerrah Young's stats at WVU were not very good. He became a solid player for the Rockets.