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It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
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tcufrog86 Offline
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Post: #121
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(12-20-2017 08:35 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  
(12-19-2017 05:58 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  FTR, NDSU is a little under 12 hours from Kalamazoo [Western Michigan] and under 9 hours to NIU, neither as the crow flies and faster for people who drive really fast.

NDSU is not going to the MAC. Period. They don't want to play on Tuesday nights, and they wouldn't be gaining leaps and bounds on the TV deal; they get $400k a year from NBC North Dakota to put their games on statewide OTA television, while MAC schools get $670,000 to be ESPN filler. The MAC's meager bowl payouts aren't impressive and the added expenses of additional FCOA scholarships is problematic, and on top of all that, ticket sales would decline because of all the midweek games. It's no bueno.

Even NDSU to the Mountain West is a long shot because of geography; they would be the only team in the Central Time Zone in that conference. It'd take a pretty radical alteration of the landscape such as it is for that to fly. San Diego or Fresno to Fargo is almost halfway across the country, which is a stretch even if it were just for football. To say nothing of the fact that it takes NDSU away from its recruiting base in the Upper Midwest.

IMO, the only way NDSU moves up is if they can join the American as a football affiliate if/when the American gets hit by the Big 12. Otherwise, they have a reasonable TV deal, excellent crowds, play for national titles every year and are competitive against Minnesota, Iowa, and Iowa State for recruits in the region without playing in a G5 conference.

I can't speak for JMU, their math might be different. But purely from an outside optics standpoint, I'd hold out for the American as well if I were them.

I don't think NDSU wins many recruiting battles against the relatively local P5 schools. Maybe a recruit here or there that had an offer from one of them. However, they do win a fair number of recruiting battles against MAC schools and Mountain West schools.
01-25-2018 03:19 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #122
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(01-25-2018 03:11 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:45 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(12-20-2017 10:02 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Neither would get the call from the American unless it were severely gutted. And even then, there are numerous more attractive options in C-USA, the Sun Belt and perhaps even the MAC, such as Northern Illinois.

Their ceiling is C-USA unless the American becomes C-USA if you catch my drift. They will never be grouped with the current core of the American imo but they do in theory belong with the current core of C-USA, i.e. the members who have never been in the Sun Belt.

Based on the statement above, this is the group of schools where JMU belongs.
Southern Miss
UAB
LA Tech
UTSA
Rice
UTEP
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte

I wouldn't LOVE the geography of this league, but ODU/Charlotte/Marshall nearby makes it a bit better. I'm honestly not sure our no-balls admin would even go for this setup. I imagine we'd hear about too many Texas trips & that they would prefer not to travel to Alabama/Mississippi either...

Well technically speaking ODU and UAB both used to be in the Sun Belt though before football.

Here are the Sun Belt alumni in CUSA....ODU, UNCC, UAB, MTSU, WKU, FIU, UNT and FAU. But I think the whole CUSA is gonna raid the Belt is pretty much done.
01-25-2018 11:00 PM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #123
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(12-10-2017 02:11 PM)SC-KNIGHT Wrote:  Should have joined the MAC when UMASS was there. Fits into the East real nice with Ohio right over the border. 07-coffee3

03-lmfao Yep, right over the border - 323.2 miles away (4:48). You do realize there is another state between the two schools, don't you? You see, back in 1863 during a little conflict called The Civil War, a new state called West Virginia was created which lies BETWEEN Virginia and Ohio.

Epic Mind Blown
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 10:27 AM by THUNDERGround.)
01-26-2018 10:26 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #124
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than every SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

At this rate, JMU appears to be expecting its students to pay 340 MILLION dollars this decade for a couple of FCS playoff runs, and perhaps a 16th seed play in game in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 11:30 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-26-2018 11:14 AM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #125
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(01-26-2018 11:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than ever SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.

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01-26-2018 11:36 AM
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Duke Dawg Offline
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Post: #126
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(01-26-2018 11:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than every SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

At this rate, JMU appears to be expecting its students to pay 340 MILLION dollars this decade for a couple of FCS playoff runs, and perhaps a 16th seed play in game in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.

#16 ranked Nothing To Write Home About U (N2WHAU) beat #3 Blue Blood UNC in Women's Lacrosse today.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 05:57 PM by Duke Dawg.)
02-10-2018 05:57 PM
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rknj8993 Offline
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Post: #127
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(02-10-2018 05:57 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  
(01-26-2018 11:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than every SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

At this rate, JMU appears to be expecting its students to pay 340 MILLION dollars this decade for a couple of FCS playoff runs, and perhaps a 16th seed play in game in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.

#16 ranked Nothing To Write Home About U (N2WHAU) beat #3 Blue Blood UNC in Women's Lacrosse today.
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02-11-2018 07:52 PM
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ODU1986 Offline
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Post: #128
It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(02-10-2018 05:57 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  
(01-26-2018 11:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than every SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

At this rate, JMU appears to be expecting its students to pay 340 MILLION dollars this decade for a couple of FCS playoff runs, and perhaps a 16th seed play in game in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.

#16 ranked Nothing To Write Home About U (N2WHAU) beat #3 Blue Blood UNC in Women's Lacrosse today.


Did you really just say that?


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02-11-2018 10:39 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #129
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
(02-10-2018 05:57 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  
(01-26-2018 11:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I just don't get the "thinking" by the BOT and Athletic Department at JMU.

They have good FCS football. They have 'nothing to write home about' other sports.

And they spend stoopid amounts of money on it. JMU's athletic budget is 47 million dollars a year, of which at least 34 million is directly subsidized by the students (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2...43179d607e)

JMU pays more for athletics than most AAC teams, more than every MWC team but one, more than every SBC school, more than any team in FCS (by a very wide margin), more than any MAC team, etc. What the hell is JMU paying all that money for? JMU pays more than DOUBLE what Louisiana Tech does for athletics and almost TWICE what Southern Mississippi does. Does anyone want to compare JMU's athletics with Louisiana Tech and USM?

And JMU doesn't have a far flung, expensive conference to play in either. They have exactly 1 team that is more than 380 miles away from them in their conference for Olympic sports. The league has no obvious outliers and has reasonable travel partners. Football does have a few schools that are more than 500 miles, but JMU isn't really playing them all that often.

Then the AD (in the linked article above) makes the ridiculous case that JMU can't move up because its too expensive. I think that it might be the case that the expensive part about JMU is the fact that the AD is wasting bucketloads of money and the BOT either won't or can't rein in the spending.

Might I suggest that JMU do the following

1) Fire the Athletic Director
2) Hire the AD from BGSU, Louisiana Tech, ULM, etc. Someone who can operate an athletic department with some cost effectiveness
3) Put the program on a serious diet
4) Join FBS (if anyone will still have them)
5) Reduce spending to 30 million a year and the student subsidy by 40%
6) Provide a 500 dollar reduction in fees back to the students

And that's before JMU gets a guaranteed million bucks a year in additional NCAA revenue from the CFP, gets another 500,000 a year from incremental payday revenue, gets marginally more TV money, and gets more money from an alumni base that appears to be really, really, really in favor of moving up.

All that so they can play Elon, New Hampshire, and Kennesaw State? And no, even winning a National championship in FCS doesn't provide you more exposure than USF gets for their equivalent investment in college athletics.

And if you take the amount of subsidy required to support athletics and then compare it to other schools.....JMU's numbers even look worse...Much worse. JMU loses more money on college sports than any other public institution in the country (defined as .. the amount students are compelled to pay to prop it up). The next biggest loser? UConn. Does anyone think that JMU gets more exposure for its mandatory investment than UConn?

With all the money JMU has spent on consultants, you'd think they'd do some peer analysis to figure out what the *&^% is going on in their athletic department budget.

At this rate, JMU appears to be expecting its students to pay 340 MILLION dollars this decade for a couple of FCS playoff runs, and perhaps a 16th seed play in game in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

JMU's situation really isn't FBS vs FCS. It appears to me to be a case of a BOT and Athletic Director that just wastes money like there's no tomorrow, and then covers it up by being the equivalent of the 12 year old playing football with the 10 year olds.

#16 ranked Nothing To Write Home About U (N2WHAU) beat #3 Blue Blood UNC in Women's Lacrosse today.

[Image: giphy.gif]
02-12-2018 12:29 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #130
RE: It's time for Madison and NDSU to move up...
I'm sorry, but for me, I'm a bit underwhelmed by the value proposition here.... 340 million dollars in mandatory student subsidies over 10 years....and 1 FCS national championship, 1 appearance in the FCS championship game, 1 play-in game as a 16 seed, and an upset of the number 3 team in women's lacrosse....

I think that the people that the JMU community should be mad at isn't me, its your AD, your BOT, and your chancellor.

The frustrating thing should be that the resources are obviously there, but they appear to be really out of whack. Again, its not like JMU doesn't have the fan support and the financing to do more than they do. Its that they appear to waste money like crazy. You spend more on athletics than USF. Your Athletic Department has a vastly higher deficit too.

For that money, you could join FBS and hire a top G5 coach at the same time.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 07:34 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-13-2018 07:22 PM
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