I understand people being upset with the offense the last few minutes, but don’t forget we scored 87 points. A well-coached team that scores 87 at home should win by 15 and the last few minutes would hardly matter. You can’t give up 93 and expect to win.Marshall (and everybody else) can get the ball to the rim against us seemingly at will.

(12-10-2017 09:00 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  I was at the game and a few things were obvious to us fans in the stands.

First of all, there was terrible interior defense by UT. Maybe we could have tried a zone to force Marshall outside. Maybe we can have put the twin towers in-Adway and Knapke- at the same time to block some shots. Basically Toledo just let Marshall run the floor and make layups

Secondly, the Marshall guards were too quick for Sanford. Jackson and Roberts should have been handling the ball,

The players did not seem to know how much time was on the shot clock. There were constant time outs in the last few minutes but it seemed like the players only knew they had to shoot when the fans started yelling out the seconds left. This is totally the fault of the coaching staff.

From what I've seen, M Jackson is not a great ball handler,so far.

(12-10-2017 09:01 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 12:12 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(12-09-2017 11:24 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Years ago when K first got the job, I went over and perused the Wisconsin(Green Bay) board to get a feel on what their fan base thought of their departing coach. Most comments were fairly positive, but was surprised at some being less flattering. Something along the lines of K being self-serving, and going out of his way to pat himself on the back, and when things went south ultimately throwing players under the bus...
Interesting stuff for sure...

People keep talking about throwing players under the bus and never taking blame. I just posted Coach K's comment about poor preparation on his part and I've posted other examples in previous years. I find him very personable and his anti-Amstutz comments honest and thoughtful as opposed to the usual coach-speak. These men get over 20,000 a year in schollie money to play- they can take a little criticism. Missed tonight's game but did notice what Pomo said- more bench minutes, which is good and shows some adjustment- prior to tonight we had 3 of the MAC's top 4 in minutes per game. Still, I tire of poor defensive schemes and effort. I'll be at most games and hope he succeeds but will not be crushed if he leaves. BTW, my name is on the building, too. If you go to the north east men's room, in the second-to-last stall, scratched into the left side wall....

Agreed. TK takes blame when it's needed. He also isn't afraid to let his players know they if they screwed up. He doesn't coddle his players. I can't think of anytime he has patted himself on the back or has not been personable.

BTW, if he wasn't a good coach/person, I highly doubt an assistant at a top university would let his son play for TK.

K did Norm Roberts a favor by offering his son... Probably a great kid, but like several others on the team, marginal Div. 1 talent...

(12-10-2017 07:43 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Some of us are old enough to remember North Carolina teams running their “four corners offense” to near perfection to milk the clock.

Back in those days I still followed ACC basketball and I always found it a bit ironic that Phil Ford, one of the most prolific scorers in Tarheel history, is the one player most often identified with (and remembered for) running the four corner (stall) "offense".

When it was time to put the game away, they did the exact opposite. Good teams wouldn't have let it get close, and won by 15 or so (given they were up 11 at one point) going away.

Marshall had 54 PIP - way too many. But given Adway only played 8 minutes....Foul trouble, I know....
Guessing he's the odd man out come next week when W. Jackson is available.

Nate couldn't hit the floor if he fell off a chair. When we don't shoot well, we have no alternative in scoring it seems. Luke and Taylor are not the post up scorers in the paint like we saw from STJ last year (although Luke had 18 and 11 last night, which is a pretty good game - but only 6 points, 1 board, and one block from Taylor).

Of note: Marshall shot only %31.6 from 3 land for the game (14.3 in the second half 1 for 7).

And they won the turnover battle 18-11.

(12-10-2017 09:01 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  BTW, if he wasn't a good coach/person, I highly doubt an assistant at a top university would let his son play for TK.

Don't know for sure but I always suspected the connection was that Roberts (the father) was impressed with how well the Rockets played Kansas a few years back when Coach K took one of his better Rocket teams into Lawrence.

I remember a number of Kansas partisans mentioned that the Rockets might sneak up on a few people come tournament time----same thing a year later when the Duke fans were saying a lot of teams will not want to face the Rockets in the first round of the NCAA Tourney. Of course their "warnings" were totally unnecessary because come March, as usual, the Rockets were not to be found anywhere near the NCAA Tourney. Not singling out Coach K for abuse here because a lot of Stan's better teams had the exact same problem----strong start, but totally fade by March---Oh well, I digress, but remember: "in order to thoroughly and totally crush one's expectations, those expectations must first be raised"----it is just a cruel tease that should not be taken too seriously. Never put you emotional well being in the hands of a bunch of 18-20 year olds playing a kid's game.

(12-10-2017 10:38 AM)Screwball Wrote:  When it was time to put the game away, they did the exact opposite. Good teams wouldn't have let it get close, and won by 15 or so (given they were up 11 at one point) going away.

Marshall had 54 PIP - way too many. But given Adway only played 8 minutes....Foul trouble, I know....
Guessing he's the odd man out come next week when W. Jackson is available.

Nate couldn't hit the floor if he fell off a chair. When we don't shoot well, we have no alternative in scoring it seems. Luke and Taylor are not the post up scorers in the paint like we saw from STJ last year (although Luke had 18 and 11 last night, which is a pretty good game - but only 6 points, 1 board, and one block from Taylor).

Of note: Marshall shot only %31.6 from 3 land for the game (14.3 in the second half 1 for 7).

And they won the turnover battle 18-11.

Regarding Adway being the odd man out when Willie Jackson becomes eligible: my worry is that TK shortens his bench even more than that when Jackson starts to play.

And it concerns me that for the second season in a row, our clearly most productive player is again a “one and done”. We had 2 years in a row where we had the MAC freshman of the year. “One and dones” don’t build a program, and if they don’t even get you the one championship, then is it really worth it? Not to take away from Fletcher—obvious vocal leader on the floor, and can’t argue with his stats.

(12-10-2017 10:27 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 09:01 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  BTW, if he wasn't a good coach/person, I highly doubt an assistant at a top university would let his son play for TK.

K did Norm Roberts a favor by offering his son... Probably a great kid, but like several others on the team, marginal Div. 1 talent...

From what I can see, he had at least 5 offers. If TK wasn't a good coach/person, Norm wouldn't have let his son come to Toledo.

(12-10-2017 11:02 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 10:38 AM)Screwball Wrote:  When it was time to put the game away, they did the exact opposite. Good teams wouldn't have let it get close, and won by 15 or so (given they were up 11 at one point) going away.

Marshall had 54 PIP - way too many. But given Adway only played 8 minutes....Foul trouble, I know....
Guessing he's the odd man out come next week when W. Jackson is available.

Nate couldn't hit the floor if he fell off a chair. When we don't shoot well, we have no alternative in scoring it seems. Luke and Taylor are not the post up scorers in the paint like we saw from STJ last year (although Luke had 18 and 11 last night, which is a pretty good game - but only 6 points, 1 board, and one block from Taylor).

Of note: Marshall shot only %31.6 from 3 land for the game (14.3 in the second half 1 for 7).

And they won the turnover battle 18-11.

Regarding Adway being the odd man out when Willie Jackson becomes eligible: my worry is that TK shortens his bench even more than that when Jackson starts to play.

And it concerns me that for the second season in a row, our clearly most productive player is again a “one and done”. We had 2 years in a row where we had the MAC freshman of the year. “One and dones” don’t build a program, and if they don’t even get you the one championship, then is it really worth it? Not to take away from Fletcher—obvious vocal leader on the floor, and can’t argue with his stats.

We went 10 deep, which is the deepest we have gone this year (other than the exhibition) I think. Too lazy to go look it up. 5 guys with 28 (Luke), 34, 34, 37, 38. Five with 5, 5, 7, 8, 8.

I'm guessing without the foul problems, those bottom 5 would have been 2, or 3 at the most. Add in W. Jackson next week and I have to think M. Jackson and Adway will see less minutes. To the tune of 30 some minutes a game.

Sanford, Fletcher, W. Jackson (if he is as billed) will be 35+ minute guys. The rest (2nd wave) will be split between Luke, Nate, M. Jackson, and the third wave will be split between Alderson, Roberts, Rose, and Gordon.

Coach K will wear out the first 6 because they will see most of the minutes, especially once conference play begins; winning the MAC is the only thing that can save this season from a complete dud.

So yea, I think you are correct, unfortunately.

The other downside to this; not developing the talent on the bench by not seeing game situations. Case & point; Maybe Adway is a little more under control if he would have had some playing time the first TWO years.

Alluding to my earlier post on how some UW Green Bay fans were less than enamored with K especially since his 8 years there, they never made it to the dance...
Well 8 years later everything has seemed to come full circle... I’m hoping I am really wrong come March and will gladly eat my words...

(12-10-2017 08:05 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I'll wait until the end of the season to render judgement. Rockets are 5-4, 4-1 at home,two of the losses are to Syracuse and #2 Kansas. 4 of the 10 Rockets on the floor last night were Freshmen. Differences last night were the turnovers, the poor 3 shooting, and the really bad call on the attempted timeout. Can't remember so many late calls by Officials.

"Team will be totally different experience-wise and cohesiveness by the end of the season."

Bingo!!!

(01-16-2018 09:01 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 08:05 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I'll wait until the end of the season to render judgement. Rockets are 5-4, 4-1 at home,two of the losses are to Syracuse and #2 Kansas. 4 of the 10 Rockets on the floor last night were Freshmen. Differences last night were the turnovers, the poor 3 shooting, and the really bad call on the attempted timeout. Can't remember so many late calls by Officials.

"Team will be totally different experience-wise and cohesiveness by the end of the season."

Bingo!!!

Not the end yet. What goes up can come down. And we have player additions that might be helping. Is the change that or the coaching? The original thread comments, crassly put, are still valid. I've seen match-up wins.

We have tall guys that can shoot the perimeter. New? Doubtful.Where was it before? Other teams were able to defend, run them raggid, lower the percentages and still hold the middle. UT lost some games VERY badly. Be foolish for any coach to forget emphasizing what caused that. No defense.

And Ohio is a not a good team on a bad roll. Being hit with the kind of shooting at the beginning of the game is a tough recover.

End of season: hopefully they'll hold up.

(01-17-2018 05:43 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(01-16-2018 09:01 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 08:05 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I'll wait until the end of the season to render judgement. Rockets are 5-4, 4-1 at home,two of the losses are to Syracuse and #2 Kansas. 4 of the 10 Rockets on the floor last night were Freshmen. Differences last night were the turnovers, the poor 3 shooting, and the really bad call on the attempted timeout. Can't remember so many late calls by Officials.

"Team will be totally different experience-wise and cohesiveness by the end of the season."

Bingo!!!

Not the end yet. What goes up can come down. And we have player additions that might be helping. Is the change that or the coaching? The original thread comments, crassly put, are still valid. I've seen match-up wins.

We have tall guys that can shoot the perimeter. New? Doubtful.Where was it before? Other teams were able to defend, run them raggid, lower the percentages and still hold the middle. UT lost some games VERY badly. Be foolish for any coach to forget emphasizing what caused that. No defense.

And Ohio is a not a good team on a bad roll. Being hit with the kind of shooting at the beginning of the game is a tough recover.

End of season: hopefully they'll hold up.

Wow!! Can't we find anything good about this team? I'm really excited and grateful that OUR Rockets are playing so well. They are a lot of fun to watch right now!
Thankfully the kids are playing with such confidence and not reading some of this garbage. And where does that confidence come from? Ultimately their leadership.
Now, are they going to stumble and lose some more games? YES. But how they respond after failure or a lose is what has been interesting and exciting to watch this year.
I will be following and supporting OUR Rockets the rest of the year, hoping for a MAC championship.

So play for a 2 seed and a contract extension with a bump in the quarters and a CIT invite... Great. This team could go 17-1 and I would not be happy if the NCAA tourney wasn't the end result.

This team is the most or second most talented in the league. Jalen IMO is a first teamer when he wants to be. Scoring needs to be his primary objective. Against CMU he got into the action early. That's why we won.

EMU and Ball State have some players I want to see how we stack up against. Itd be nice to beat NIU 2 times as well.

I'm still boycotting basketball until we beat someone of note on the road.

(01-17-2018 09:48 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  So play for a 2 seed and a contract extension with a bump in the quarters and a CIT invite... Great. This team could go 17-1 and I would not be happy if the NCAA tourney wasn't the end result.

This team is the most or second most talented in the league. Jalen IMO is a first teamer when he wants to be. Scoring needs to be his primary objective. Against CMU he got into the action early. That's why we won.

EMU and Ball State have some players I want to see how we stack up against. Itd be nice to beat NIU 2 times as well.

I'm still boycotting basketball until we beat someone of note on the road.

Waiting 'til the 2018 OOC schedule?

I am extremely impressed with the win last night at OU, no matter who was on the floor. Getting a win at OU has been far and few between, so the shellacking we did was great. Also, on the heels of the football team's disaster there, it was nice to give them some payback.

(01-17-2018 09:48 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  So play for a 2 seed and a contract extension with a bump in the quarters and a CIT invite... Great. This team could go 17-1 and I would not be happy if the NCAA tourney wasn't the end result.

This team is the most or second most talented in the league. Jalen IMO is a first teamer when he wants to be. Scoring needs to be his primary objective. Against CMU he got into the action early. That's why we won.

EMU and Ball State have some players I want to see how we stack up against. Itd be nice to beat NIU 2 times as well.

I'm still boycotting basketball until we beat someone of note on the road.

Conference championship or bust!!!

(01-17-2018 08:27 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  Wow!! Can't we find anything good about this team? ...

For some unknown reason, this is always a "glass half empty" message board.

(01-17-2018 06:35 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 08:27 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  Wow!! Can't we find anything good about this team? ...

For some unknown reason, this is always a "glass half empty" message board.

Which is odd since most boards are “shattered glass everywhere and a moist spot” boards. Not sure why there’s as much optimism here as there is, but it’s refreshing.