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Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 08:10 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 08:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 05:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If their main goal is to increase the number of in-conference games, they don't have to expand to do so. Am I missing something?

Aren't they at 10? They only need 1 to be added to play 20 conference games.

But why not just have each team play 2 others 3 times?

Because 11 gets you an easy round robin. In addition, nobody wants to play a team 3 times in conference play.
12-08-2017 08:18 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

If the problem Hinson is responding to is that P5 expansion, and the move to 20 game league schedules, is reducing the number of opportunities for schools like SIU to get resume padding wins against the big boys, then how is adding more games within their own league going to fix that problem? Aren't you just adding programs you already didn't think were going to help you (or you would have invited them before this)?

That's not to say you shouldn't expand for other reasons. It's just, IMO, not because it will help your schools get invited to the NCAAT. If expansion drives a reduction in the number of DI conferences, the subsequent reduction in autobids will just result in more power conference teams getting on the good side of the bubble at selection time.
12-08-2017 09:24 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 08:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 05:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If their main goal is to increase the number of in-conference games, they don't have to expand to do so. Am I missing something?

Aren't they at 10? They only need 1 to be added to play 20 conference games.

Odd numbers make scheduling a bit awkward. (Someone's always left without a dance partner). But is that enough to justify adding a #12?

And then the question becomes what exactly the Valley is looking for in a #12. In 2013, google has the Valley looking at UIC, Belmont, Oral Roberts and UMKC to replace Creighton, before they brought in Loyola-Chicago and Valparaiso. The logic of adding Chicagoland schools is strong, but is the Valley still in a position to poach the Horizon?

What does a one-bid, 12-team Missouri Valley Conference do for UIC, really?

I suppose that applies to anyone the Valley is considering. Unless you don't like the conference you're in now (the WAC is inherently unstable--UMKC, you're not a fan of Summit League travel to Tulsa, Denver and the Dakotas--Western Illinois, Fort Wayne) what's the big incentive to change leagues?

EDIT: Oh dear. I don't know why I didn't read the article before posting. They're trying to be viable for at-large bids. I don't think there's anyone they can add who makes any difference there. That ship has sailed. There are no top 100 programs available for the Valley to add. (Except maybe NMSU, and the geography there is pretty terrible--the Horizon is at least close to major airports). You could make arguments for why and how a Denver or Grand Canyon *could* use their financial resources to build themselves into a top 100 program, but they don't really need Valley membership to do that.

I thought they were just adding schools to fill dates on the schedule, because no one wants to get on a plane and a bus to play at Drake nonconference.

EDIT 2: I guess that the logical #12, if UIC isn't interested, might be Belmont. Adds Nashville metro to the footprint, adds a little bit of basketball strength. STill driveable from Iowa and Illinois and Missouri.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 09:48 AM by johnbragg.)
12-08-2017 09:25 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 09:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 08:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 05:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If their main goal is to increase the number of in-conference games, they don't have to expand to do so. Am I missing something?

Aren't they at 10? They only need 1 to be added to play 20 conference games.

Odd numbers make scheduling a bit awkward. (Someone's always left without a dance partner). But is that enough to justify adding a #12?

And then the question becomes what exactly the Valley is looking for in a #12. In 2013, google has the Valley looking at UIC, Belmont, Oral Roberts and UMKC to replace Creighton, before they brought in Loyola-Chicago and Valparaiso. The logic of adding Chicagoland schools is strong, but is the Valley still in a position to poach the Horizon?

What does a one-bid, 12-team Missouri Valley Conference do for UIC, really?

I suppose that applies to anyone the Valley is considering. Unless you don't like the conference you're in now (the WAC is inherently unstable--UMKC, you're not a fan of Summit League travel to Tulsa, Denver and the Dakotas--Western Illinois, Fort Wayne) what's the big incentive to change leagues?

EDIT: Oh dear. I don't know why I didn't read the article before posting. They're trying to be viable for at-large bids. I don't think there's anyone they can add who makes any difference there. That ship has sailed. There are no top 100 programs available for the Valley to add. (Except maybe NMSU, and the geography there is pretty terrible--the Horizon is at least close to major airports). You could make arguments for why and how a Denver or Grand Canyon *could* use their financial resources to build themselves into a top 100 program, but they don't really need Valley membership to do that.

I thought they were just adding schools to fill dates on the schedule, because no one wants to get on a plane and a bus to play at Drake nonconference.

That's how the article started but the crux of it is in the second half of the article where scheduling is getting more difficult as more conferences are going to 20 conference games and that the MVC needs to expand to play 20 conference games also for scheduling purposes because it is getting harder to get games and basically home games.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 09:50 AM by MWC Tex.)
12-08-2017 09:50 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 09:50 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 09:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 08:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 05:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If their main goal is to increase the number of in-conference games, they don't have to expand to do so. Am I missing something?

Aren't they at 10? They only need 1 to be added to play 20 conference games.

Odd numbers make scheduling a bit awkward. (Someone's always left without a dance partner). But is that enough to justify adding a #12?

And then the question becomes what exactly the Valley is looking for in a #12. In 2013, google has the Valley looking at UIC, Belmont, Oral Roberts and UMKC to replace Creighton, before they brought in Loyola-Chicago and Valparaiso. The logic of adding Chicagoland schools is strong, but is the Valley still in a position to poach the Horizon?

What does a one-bid, 12-team Missouri Valley Conference do for UIC, really?

I suppose that applies to anyone the Valley is considering. Unless you don't like the conference you're in now (the WAC is inherently unstable--UMKC, you're not a fan of Summit League travel to Tulsa, Denver and the Dakotas--Western Illinois, Fort Wayne) what's the big incentive to change leagues?

EDIT: Oh dear. I don't know why I didn't read the article before posting. They're trying to be viable for at-large bids. I don't think there's anyone they can add who makes any difference there. That ship has sailed. There are no top 100 programs available for the Valley to add. (Except maybe NMSU, and the geography there is pretty terrible--the Horizon is at least close to major airports). You could make arguments for why and how a Denver or Grand Canyon *could* use their financial resources to build themselves into a top 100 program, but they don't really need Valley membership to do that.

I thought they were just adding schools to fill dates on the schedule, because no one wants to get on a plane and a bus to play at Drake nonconference.

That's how the article started but the crux of it is in the second half of the article where scheduling is getting more difficult as more conferences are going to 20 conference games and that the MVC needs to expand to play 20 conference games also for scheduling purposes because it is getting harder to get games and basically home games.

Wouldn't it be simpler to schedule someone like Valpo (who presumably is now going to have the same difficulty getting games as you do) home and home out of conference? The result is the same and you don't have to split your NCAAT revenues with more schools.
12-08-2017 10:15 AM
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el_norte Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 10:57 AM by el_norte.)
12-08-2017 10:55 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 03:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Murray State is good for basketball, but for the MVC to find a quality of school with good men and women's basketball? Omaha and UMKC do not cut it. It weakens their RPI. I would not be surprise that Missouri State might be lobbying for Arkansas Tech to join. Their RPI is better than several D1 schools in basketball. It is not far from Russellville to Springfield. It is just a few hours bus ride. It does gets you into another state that is southern. MVC is better well known name than the Southland. Arkansas Tech could slide their football program as number 12 to the MVFC. Arkansas Tech have went to post season with most of their sports.

No quit posting.
12-08-2017 11:22 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.
12-08-2017 11:23 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:22 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Barry Hinson was in an off the cuff interview preseason where Murray St came up and he said (paraphrased) “we all thought this would be a Valley rivalry this season, but I bet it happens next”. Also I read somwhere where the MVC stipulated in their Arch Madness renewal contract this summer to allow for 4 Thursday games starting 2019.

It seems everyone and their grandma is assuming Murray will be in the MVC next year. MVC bypassing the Racers would be the BXII bypassing Louisville of mid-majorville.

Question is who they add for #12. That could create a ripple effect (Fort Wayne to Horizon, UMKC to Summit). Does OVC add USI or poach Lipscomb? ASun/WAC could drop below 8.

The Mo St President leads the MVC expansion committee and he wants some school near him - presumably ORU or UMKC.

The Horizon will take almost any Midwestern team left as the Summit will be non-pouchable soon. The one school the Horizon won't take is W Ill, which will have to be content with the OVC. The OVC will take USI and Lipscomb because Jax St, Belmont, and EKU are leaving.

Merry St needs an answer soon, as football scheduling would be a major chore if left til later like last year.

We don't want either ORU or UMKC. And Western Illinois doesn't want the OVC. Sorry your little fantasy league isn't forming.
12-08-2017 11:23 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.

Bradley holds too much power in the MVC. Every move since 1991 has been to please them.
12-08-2017 11:24 AM
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