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NMSU & GCU in Big West?
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #31
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-10-2017 12:09 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Curious what the metrics on that data are. Sac State (2016) is listed at 267...I have a hard time seeing Sac doing that much research...a lot must have changed since I was stumbling around the quad after a liquid lunch over 10 years ago...

The table shows Sac State growing its research spending from $183,000 in 2007 to $20.7 million in 2016. Most of that growth was during the recession when California public universities were taking big budget cuts. I'm guessing quite a few faculty members had to go out and find research grants to preserve their jobs.
12-10-2017 01:58 AM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #32
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-10-2017 01:58 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 12:09 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Curious what the metrics on that data are. Sac State (2016) is listed at 267...I have a hard time seeing Sac doing that much research...a lot must have changed since I was stumbling around the quad after a liquid lunch over 10 years ago...

The table shows Sac State growing its research spending from $183,000 in 2007 to $20.7 million in 2016. Most of that growth was during the recession when California public universities were taking big budget cuts. I'm guessing quite a few faculty members had to go out and find research grants to preserve their jobs.

That's crazy growth, of course most of that time corresponds to our last President (Gonzales) that also did a lot to get new/upgraded infrastructure on campus. Our current President (Nelsen) has also begun some significant capital improvements as well.

With a new $90M science building slated to open fall 2019 (ground broke this past Sept) those research dollars will only continue to increase.
12-11-2017 01:31 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #33
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-11-2017 01:31 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 01:58 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 12:09 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Curious what the metrics on that data are. Sac State (2016) is listed at 267...I have a hard time seeing Sac doing that much research...a lot must have changed since I was stumbling around the quad after a liquid lunch over 10 years ago...

The table shows Sac State growing its research spending from $183,000 in 2007 to $20.7 million in 2016. Most of that growth was during the recession when California public universities were taking big budget cuts. I'm guessing quite a few faculty members had to go out and find research grants to preserve their jobs.

That's crazy growth, of course most of that time corresponds to our last President (Gonzales) that also did a lot to get new/upgraded infrastructure on campus. Our current President (Nelsen) has also begun some significant capital improvements as well.

With a new $90M science building slated to open fall 2019 (ground broke this past Sept) those research dollars will only continue to increase.

Good for Sac St. Hope the momentum continues and some of that starts to trickle in for athletics. They need at least a 5k arena for basketball and it wouldn't hurt to revamp Hornet stadium but I think with the US T&F meets that are held there, it would be hard to get the track moved from that location.
12-12-2017 09:24 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #34
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
Reading more and more about the Big West and I'm convinced NMSU and GCU could do much better. I would like to see NMSU and GCU in the Mountain West together but until GCU gets rid of that for profit thing, the MWC will never take them. If NMSU can sustain a good football program it's going to happen. We have 3 MWC teams on football schedule for next year and the chatter among MWC fan bases is to add NMSU. Unfortunately they want to see Utep and ask a package. GCU would get the MWC into Arizona, but again, for profit, no bueno.
12-12-2017 10:28 AM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #35
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-12-2017 09:24 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 01:31 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 01:58 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 12:09 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Curious what the metrics on that data are. Sac State (2016) is listed at 267...I have a hard time seeing Sac doing that much research...a lot must have changed since I was stumbling around the quad after a liquid lunch over 10 years ago...

The table shows Sac State growing its research spending from $183,000 in 2007 to $20.7 million in 2016. Most of that growth was during the recession when California public universities were taking big budget cuts. I'm guessing quite a few faculty members had to go out and find research grants to preserve their jobs.

That's crazy growth, of course most of that time corresponds to our last President (Gonzales) that also did a lot to get new/upgraded infrastructure on campus. Our current President (Nelsen) has also begun some significant capital improvements as well.

With a new $90M science building slated to open fall 2019 (ground broke this past Sept) those research dollars will only continue to increase.

Good for Sac St. Hope the momentum continues and some of that starts to trickle in for athletics. They need at least a 5k arena for basketball and it wouldn't hurt to revamp Hornet stadium but I think with the US T&F meets that are held there, it would be hard to get the track moved from that location.

Athletics budget has been steadily increasing over the last 10 years and is now pushing $27M. When Nelsen arrived on campus a few years ago 2 of his main infrastructure projects he highlighted in his first campus address were the science building and events center. With the science building in construction he can fully focus on the events center.

The events center feasibility study is in progress. The study will identify the capacity and campus location for the venue. The rumor I heard last spring was possibly teaming up with a minor league team, not sure how far those talks went of if that is even on the table (Kings want to move their G League team from Reno to Sac and need at least a 5k capacity secondary venue to host an all star game, Sharks want to relocate their minor league to Sac). Personally I'd like to see the venue closer to 8k but anything 5k and over will do.

The other big part is of course funding. A good chunk will need to be raised (say $10-$20M depending on the final price tag for construction) up front but ultimately a student fee will be needed to cover the bulk of the costs (and operations once it's built). Nelsen will have to forcibly enact this following a failed student vote (students likely won't pass a new referendum even though one was passed in 2004, a newer one failed just before Nelsen showed up). However Sac State has the 2nd lowest campus-wide fees of all the football sponsoring CSU's so the question will be how large of a fee does Nelsen deem palatable.

Either way if this thing doesn't get built while Nelsen is here, I don't think it ever will.
12-13-2017 12:18 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-08-2017 04:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  But the WAC is weak, and you can see that by having some fun and moving GCU and NMSU to say the MVC or Horizon and then computing the changed Sagarin ratings. Those conferences move up a spot or two and the WAC falls several spots, almost to the bottom.

Stu, while I agreed with much of your post, this is just not accurate.
The current WAC RPI ranking is at #16. The WCC is at #15 and the Horizon is at #29. Sure, if the WAC lost NMSU and GCU, they would drop down to near the bottom.

But if the WCC lost Gonzaga and St. Mary's, they become a one bid league like the WAC and they drop down to near the bottom. Six of the ten WCC schools have an RPI of over 200.

The Horizon already knows the feeling of dropping to the bottom. They lost Butler and Valpo and replaced them with Oakland and IUPUI. Butler has a current RPI ranking of #32. Valpo is at #78. Oakland has an RPI of #156 and IUPUI is at #323.

The Horizon is a one bid league, just like the WAC. Same NCAA Tournament revenue. They were a one bid league with Butler and Valpo. Now they are just a bad one bid league without them.

So yes, the Horizon RPI would improve with the addition of NMSU and GCU. It is near the bottom. Losing two good teams will also effect conference RPI. That does not make the current conference weak.
12-13-2017 01:39 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #37
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
SoCal, look at RPI at the end of the year not now.

And a 5 year average.
12-13-2017 01:52 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #38
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
SoCal Texas State fan,

The fundamental problem for NMSU is that their expectations and image, much like that of UTEP is as a major basketball program. The WAC is not likely to ever give that to them. Their NCAA flops are testament to this. They have not been competitive against Tourney teams for a good long while.

This year Sagarin shows them 95. The ideal conference for them is probably the MVC (which is the one I advocate). I see the Horizon as a step to get in the MVC if they cannot go there directly.

#26 Northern Iowa
#57 Loyola Chicago
#60 Missouri State
#73 Valparaiso
(#95 New Mexico State)
#101 Evansville
#103 Bradley

The bottom schools are 186, 200, 208

The WCC would be nice too

#17 Gonzaga
#58 San Diego
#63 Brigham Young
#82 St. Mary's
(#95 New Mexico State)

The WCC like the WAC has a very bad bottom

The Horizon is really hurting without Valpo, looks similar to the WAC at the top

#94 Northern Kentucky
(#95 New Mexico State)

then like the WAC (2 Horizon 3 WAC) of 125-160 range schools or 72-73 rating (the difference between 110 and 170 is very little, one game can vault or drop a school 25 spots). But yes the Horizon is really fallen off.

The MWC seems to have recovered from two years of poor showing (multi-bid seems likely this year). In a perfect world for Las Cruces, NMSU would be a MWC school.

#20 Nevada
#24 San Diego State
#33 Boise State
#44 UNLV
#54 Fresno State
#92 Utah State
(#95 New Mexico State)

If NMSU left the WAC then the leader would be outside the top 125 schools. If New Mexico State joined a conference with more schools in the top 100, it would boost their RPI and recruiting, and profile. They have the potential to be a top 50 program again. But they can't get there in the WAC.

The Big West would be a small step up. Or rather UCSB (#59) has recovered, and UC Davis (#72) pulled off a big upset, so the RPI looks good. But the depth of the league is still the same, and they will likely revert to that next year.

Again SoCal, if you were reading closely rather than trying to make contrarian arguments you'd see I think the MVC is the end game for NMSU. I do not think their Football will survive to the 2025 realignment. That is a long time to be an independent. So their fans should enjoy this bowl game.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2017 02:26 PM by Stugray2.)
12-13-2017 02:25 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
(12-13-2017 01:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  SoCal, look at RPI at the end of the year not now.

And a 5 year average.

WAC RPI last season was #17. This season at this point it is #16. There is a RPI pattern developing in the WAC.

Many of the schools in the WAC are in their first D1 autobid conference and are just beginning to develop their basketball programs. A five year average is not a true reflection of where they are at or where they are going.

The Horizon has averaged #18 over the past three years and replaced Valpo with IUPUI. Right now, five of the ten Horizon schools have an RPI of 317 or worse. Seven of the ten Horizon schools have an RPI of over 200. The Horizon is trending in the wrong direction.
12-13-2017 02:40 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #40
RE: NMSU & GCU in Big West?
I don't believe in one or two year trends. You seem to. If you believed that then the the MWC on the way out of upper mid-majors. Funny thing happened.

I don't think the WAC has done much of anything. This year has a lot of mid-major upsets of Majors. Fluke IMO.

Again you are looking at the Horizon as a terminal conference. Which is why you I think you are being deliberately stupid in your response. The end game is the MVC or MWC.

Heck I have long been for the MWC taking NMSU in Olympics. I'd rather we not have Hawaii in anything, but we're stuck with them in football. It was part of the effort to keep BYU and destroy the WAC. But it was a bad move long term. Barbara Coulture made it easy to accept keeping NMSU out.
12-13-2017 03:36 PM
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