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Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  FBS football independence is becoming a bit more viable. It's nothing against the AAC or UConn, but I don't see the two being a good match for football. Maybe that's because the AAC is a hodge-podge of institutional types, but, I think the conference is too heavily rooted in the south for its northeastern members to identify with each other and the rest of the conference. I mean, when you consider that Navy identifies the southwest as a base for recruiting rather than Temple and UConn, and that's tough. You can't force UConn to play nice with UMass, but, I think UMass would struggle there, too.

I think the talking heads are right on this one. I think UConn should really consider the Big East to protect its basketball program, and let football "figure it out" in an environment where it could probably build a viable schedule from many parts. And, yes, I think UConn's name is big enough that it could get them a bowl tie-in.

I wouldn't be surprised if UConn's been trying to figure it out. I think there's been an issue of what happens with all of that money UConn got from the departing C7 members AND what the rest of the AAC might want from that cut. I used to think the Big East schools would welcome UConn back easily, but with its hands outstretched looking for its money back; I think UConn knows departing will wind up them getting sued for something significant from the AAC, and UConn wanting to keep every dime they've collected. Meaning, no movement.

I don't think the Big East's concern is necessarily about wanting money back from UConn. Instead, it's about what caused the Catholic 7 to eventually split off on their own in the first place: membership instability. They want to *control* their place in conference realignment as opposed to having other leagues control them (which is what happened over the course of over a decade in the poaching of the old Big East). Within the realm of non-FBS Division I conferences, the Big East is THE top dog when it comes to conference realignment power. The Big East is the predator in that environment while others are the prey. As soon as they let back in a school whose true ultimate goal is to join a P5 conference, then that lets back in the instability of having other power conferences ultimately dictate their membership. All of the Big East schools would love to play games on-the-court against UConn in a vacuum, but that instability that would be invited back in is what could (and I think would) hold the Big East back from inviting UConn even if UConn was willing to make the move (and I don't think they're willing, anyway).

AAC CCG---3.385 MILLION (pac12 CCG barely topped that with 3.5-6 million :coffee3:playing in primetime with no competition. The AAC was on at noon against the big12 ccg)
MAC CCG --652K
MWC CCG 624K
CUSA CCG 255K
S BELT CCG 225K
12-06-2017 04:37 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 03:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  UConn is between a rock and a hard place. As long as there is even a tiny sliver of hope for a P5 invite down the road, then it simply cannot leave the AAC. P5 membership is based on football and independence simply isn't realistically viable for a school like UConn.

Who says UConn football would have to go independent? They could be football-only in the AAC or basketball-only in the Big East.

No way would the AAC kick UConn football out. We already have the precedent of Wichita State being no football.

Yeah, I'm biased, I'd love to have UConn back in the Big East. But I also know that they have to put their football interests first. I think they could, and still play Big East hoops.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 04:42 PM by quo vadis.)
12-06-2017 04:41 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:30 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Interesting comments last night from Seth Greenberg (and also Dick Vitale) during the ESPN telecast of the Syracuse/UConn game.

Seth Greenberg: “If I was a UConn fan I’d do everything I can to make sure that UConn gets back in the Big East. UConn has got to get back to the Big East where they belong. No offense to the American Athletic conference but the Big East is a GREAT basketball conference."

Kind of odd to see ESPN commentators talk down one of their own properties. I can't remember seeing that before.

FTR, I don't think UConn is coming back to the Big East. 07-coffee3

UConn is between a rock and a hard place. As long as there is even a tiny sliver of hope for a P5 invite down the road, then it simply cannot leave the AAC. P5 membership is based on football and independence simply isn't realistically viable for a school like UConn.

However, the money is simple: the Big East makes more TV money just based on basketball than the AAC (and every other G5 conference) makes on football and basketball *combined*. We can argue all day about whether the Big East would get the same contract again or the AAC will get a better contract in a few years and yada yada yada... but the fact is that the Big East completely CRUSHES the G5 conferences when it comes to TV money, which is essentially the entire crux of the conference realignment game. It says something that schools like DePaul and Seton Hall are making more TV money than schools like UConn outright... and when you consider that those Big East schools aren't having to deal with the costs of FBS football, the revenue/expense/P&L gap is a complete blowout.

I think that if UConn decided to drop FBS football, then they'd clearly want to be in the Big East (as it's simply the most desirable conference for *any* non-FBS Division I basketball school outside of the Ivy League). However, they're not dropping FBS football at any point soon, in which case it needs to do everything it can to do what's best for its FBS football program since that's the reality of today's college sports world. That means staying in the AAC and praying that there's a P5 invite in a few years.
More money combined??! Well let's see.
1.8 million a year from existing tv contract
20+ million a year from current cfp contracted allotment
20+ million a year for being the top g5 conference
4 million from the peach bowl
2.6 million from the liberty bowl
Not including Ncaa credits ?? Millions
Plus the other bowl payouts
I think all of that should total up to an extra 50+ million to split up. Maybe Frank the tank will know exactly since he is so sure that the NBE makes more than all the g5s, but if all of that totals up say 54 million that's another 4.5 million a year and that's before the NBE money is added to the pot. I may have some figures wrong so someone please correct me 07-coffee3

I said TV money (which is true). Yes, there are other conference distributions for football as you've noted, but there are also the Big East's own NCAA Tournament distributions that are very high and only split among 10 schools. Regardless, the Big East is earning that all of that revenue without the expense of FBS football. The gap on the profit/loss and ROI is even wider.
12-06-2017 04:42 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
I was watching when Greenberg made that comment. I don't think it had much to do with money. He was speaking, I believe, about UConn's prospects for future success on the basketball court.

When UConn got left behind, and the AAC was trying to salvage/reinvent itself, one of the narratives I kept hearing was that UConn hoops was so strong it would be able to elevate the basketball fortunes of the other AAC members. That they were a national brand who was sure to remain that way post Big East. When I challenged that narrative, and questioned whether UConn could retain its lofty status on its own, I was dismissed out of hand by Husky fans.

My take was that Calhoun and being a member of the Big East is what made UConn successful, and that they only had a short window to show they could sustain success without either of those things. I think Greenberg is saying that they can't, and that they have shown that they can't. They aren't elevating their conference, and the AAC isn't elevating them the way the Big East, with its strong local flavor, did more than 20 years ago.

It may be too late for UConn. The aura of a perennial national contender may have been permanently shattered. And if they are both a football bottom feeder and a so-so basketball program, their future looks bleak. Maybe they could recreate their success by returning to the Big East and maybe they can't. But it's starting to look like it's their only chance.
12-06-2017 04:44 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:37 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  FBS football independence is becoming a bit more viable. It's nothing against the AAC or UConn, but I don't see the two being a good match for football. Maybe that's because the AAC is a hodge-podge of institutional types, but, I think the conference is too heavily rooted in the south for its northeastern members to identify with each other and the rest of the conference. I mean, when you consider that Navy identifies the southwest as a base for recruiting rather than Temple and UConn, and that's tough. You can't force UConn to play nice with UMass, but, I think UMass would struggle there, too.

I think the talking heads are right on this one. I think UConn should really consider the Big East to protect its basketball program, and let football "figure it out" in an environment where it could probably build a viable schedule from many parts. And, yes, I think UConn's name is big enough that it could get them a bowl tie-in.

I wouldn't be surprised if UConn's been trying to figure it out. I think there's been an issue of what happens with all of that money UConn got from the departing C7 members AND what the rest of the AAC might want from that cut. I used to think the Big East schools would welcome UConn back easily, but with its hands outstretched looking for its money back; I think UConn knows departing will wind up them getting sued for something significant from the AAC, and UConn wanting to keep every dime they've collected. Meaning, no movement.

I don't think the Big East's concern is necessarily about wanting money back from UConn. Instead, it's about what caused the Catholic 7 to eventually split off on their own in the first place: membership instability. They want to *control* their place in conference realignment as opposed to having other leagues control them (which is what happened over the course of over a decade in the poaching of the old Big East). Within the realm of non-FBS Division I conferences, the Big East is THE top dog when it comes to conference realignment power. The Big East is the predator in that environment while others are the prey. As soon as they let back in a school whose true ultimate goal is to join a P5 conference, then that lets back in the instability of having other power conferences ultimately dictate their membership. All of the Big East schools would love to play games on-the-court against UConn in a vacuum, but that instability that would be invited back in is what could (and I think would) hold the Big East back from inviting UConn even if UConn was willing to make the move (and I don't think they're willing, anyway).

AAC CCG---3.385 MILLION (pac12 CCG barely topped that with 3.5-6 million :coffee3:playing in primetime with no competition. The AAC was on at noon against the big12 ccg)
MAC CCG --652K
MWC CCG 624K
CUSA CCG 255K
S BELT CCG 225K

I'm not sure what the AAC championship game ratings have to do with the post. Every FBS school that isn't in a power conference (besides Notre Dame) would take a P5 invite sight unseen. That was my point as to why the Big East wouldn't want to deal with UConn or any other FBS school again (and why the C7 left in the first place).
12-06-2017 04:45 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
It's not even really about money - the Big East money and the money UConn would get from Fox and SNY as a football indy would be close enough to revenue-neutral versus the all-in payout from the AAC, in all likelihood. It's about keeping your flagship programs, the ones that keep UConn a nationally-relevant brand, in the best possible home and it's about not letting the fan base wither on the vine playing in a geographically inaccessible league. The NYC connection matters, the tournament at MSG matters, and the recruiting bump matters.

UConn needs to prioritize its strengths, not its weaknesses.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 04:49 PM by Bogg.)
12-06-2017 04:49 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:44 PM)ken d Wrote:  I was watching when Greenberg made that comment. I don't think it had much to do with money. He was speaking, I believe, about UConn's prospects for future success on the basketball court.

When UConn got left behind, and the AAC was trying to salvage/reinvent itself, one of the narratives I kept hearing was that UConn hoops was so strong it would be able to elevate the basketball fortunes of the other AAC members. That they were a national brand who was sure to remain that way post Big East. When I challenged that narrative, and questioned whether UConn could retain its lofty status on its own, I was dismissed out of hand by Husky fans.

My take was that Calhoun and being a member of the Big East is what made UConn successful, and that they only had a short window to show they could sustain success without either of those things. I think Greenberg is saying that they can't, and that they have shown that they can't. They aren't elevating their conference, and the AAC isn't elevating them the way the Big East, with its strong local flavor, did more than 20 years ago.

It may be too late for UConn. The aura of a perennial national contender may have been permanently shattered. And if they are both a football bottom feeder and a so-so basketball program, their future looks bleak. Maybe they could recreate their success by returning to the Big East and maybe they can't. But it's starting to look like it's their only chance.

UConn's coaching situation is worse than their conference affiliation right now. If the AAC was so gawd-awful, they should be dominating the league with the talent they have compared to everyone else. Instead, they finished 6th in the AAC the past two seasons and will likely fail to reach that mark this season based on what I have seen to date.
12-06-2017 04:49 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:30 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  More money combined??! Well let's see.
1.8 million a year from existing tv contract
20+ million a year from current cfp contracted allotment
20+ million a year for being the top g5 conference
4 million from the peach bowl
2.6 million from the liberty bowl
Not including Ncaa credits ?? Millions
Plus the other bowl payouts
I think all of that should total up to an extra 50+ million to split up. Maybe Frank the tank will know exactly since he is so sure that the NBE makes more than all the g5s, but if all of that totals up say 54 million that's another 4.5 million a year and that's before the NBE money is added to the pot. I may have some figures wrong so someone please correct me 07-coffee3

Big East gets $4M per school per year just from the TV deal.

If the AAC really gets $50M from all that, that's = $4.167M per school. And that's a best-case scenario for the average AAC program. (I realize UConn, Cincy, and USF make more from the exit fees, etc.)

So, may be a little more than the Big East. But, the Big East doesn't have all of the football expenses. It costs a ton of money to send football teams and their entourage to the Peach and Liberty bowls and all the other lower bowls, including Hawaii on Christmas Eve. Schools often don't break even on the bowl expenses versus bowl payouts.

And, what did the analysis look like last year, when the AAC's top team played in the Military Bowl and didn't get the NY6 windfall? Whereas, each Big East school still made $4M.

By 2020, I believe the AAC will get a raise and the Big East will be lucky to keep the status quo. However, it's hard to argue that the average Big East school doesn't have a better TV financial setup right now than the average AAC school.
12-06-2017 04:51 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:49 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  UConn's coaching situation is worse than their conference affiliation right now. If the AAC was so gawd-awful, they should be dominating the league with the talent they have compared to everyone else. Instead, they finished 6th in the AAC the past two seasons and will likely fail to reach that mark this season based on what I have seen to date.

All true. Doesn't mean the basketball program wouldn't benefit from a better home.
12-06-2017 04:53 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:44 PM)ken d Wrote:  I was watching when Greenberg made that comment. I don't think it had much to do with money. He was speaking, I believe, about UConn's prospects for future success on the basketball court.

When UConn got left behind, and the AAC was trying to salvage/reinvent itself, one of the narratives I kept hearing was that UConn hoops was so strong it would be able to elevate the basketball fortunes of the other AAC members. That they were a national brand who was sure to remain that way post Big East. When I challenged that narrative, and questioned whether UConn could retain its lofty status on its own, I was dismissed out of hand by Husky fans.

My take was that Calhoun and being a member of the Big East is what made UConn successful, and that they only had a short window to show they could sustain success without either of those things. I think Greenberg is saying that they can't, and that they have shown that they can't. They aren't elevating their conference, and the AAC isn't elevating them the way the Big East, with its strong local flavor, did more than 20 years ago.

It may be too late for UConn. The aura of a perennial national contender may have been permanently shattered. And if they are both a football bottom feeder and a so-so basketball program, their future looks bleak. Maybe they could recreate their success by returning to the Big East and maybe they can't. But it's starting to look like it's their only chance.

To be sure, I don't think UConn's basketball success has much to do with whether it's in the Big East or AAC. (This is MUCH different than football, where being in a P5 conference as opposed to a G5 conference means EVERYTHING.) The NCAA Tournament format allows for schools like Gonzaga, Wichita State and VCU to transcend whatever issues there might be with their respective conferences. While the AAC isn't a power football conference (regardless of the attempted "P6" branding), most reasonable observers would at a minimum call it a major (if not power) basketball conference that will regularly get at-large bids to the NCAA Tournament.

Now, I do think that the fan perception difference between Wichita State and UConn is that Wichita State fans are going to be seeing the best conference games that they have ever had in the AAC, while a UConn fans are going to look at those same conference games as being way less attractive than what they had a few short years ago. Gonzaga and Wichita State never really lost anything near the magnitude of the drop-down that UConn experienced, so that constant comparison to the old days is going to be there in a different way. This is more about fan interest as opposed to the ability to actually compete on-the-court, though. Schools can definitely win on a national level in the AAC for basketball.
12-06-2017 04:55 PM
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