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What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
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ken d Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 10:48 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 04:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well Wedge the states are strapped. Continuing those policies is just plain stupid. Besides the numbers of undergraduate degrees today mean little. Now if you want the kind of job that you or I got with an undergrad diploma you need post graduate work. A BA gets you precious little over what a high school diploma earned you 30 to 40 years ago.

I would postulate that we have too damned many small colleges funded by the states. The privates are their own matter. I see it as nothing more than subsidizing a failed educational model. And if the schools can't field a football or basketball program that can pay for itself it seems to me the conventional wisdom that it attracts students is specious. If enough former students cared about the football program it would be supported. If they can't afford to support it I would argue that the program is an unnecessary expense. After all to some extent too many taxpayers are paying for it.

Or, you can get the kind of job an undergrad degree used to provide with no degree at all - just demonstrated skill in a field like IT.

I agree there are far more students in college than will ever benefit financially from the experience. And, at some point (if they haven't already), states will recognize this and be faced with a tough choice. Because if all those students were to leave school, our economy would not be able to absorb them into the workplace.

Now, it might not be those students themselves who would be unemployed. Probably, they would push some other marginal employees out of their jobs. Either way, we will have a lot more unemployment and underemployment, even as we continue to import illegal immigrants to do the jobs Americans won't do.

It's not easy for economists to calculate the cost to society of eliminating unnecessary colleges compared to the cost of keeping them open. So we keep kicking that can down the road.


There is no such job.

What you mean is illegal immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans will not do for poverty wages.

Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.
12-12-2017 12:17 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:48 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 04:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well Wedge the states are strapped. Continuing those policies is just plain stupid. Besides the numbers of undergraduate degrees today mean little. Now if you want the kind of job that you or I got with an undergrad diploma you need post graduate work. A BA gets you precious little over what a high school diploma earned you 30 to 40 years ago.

I would postulate that we have too damned many small colleges funded by the states. The privates are their own matter. I see it as nothing more than subsidizing a failed educational model. And if the schools can't field a football or basketball program that can pay for itself it seems to me the conventional wisdom that it attracts students is specious. If enough former students cared about the football program it would be supported. If they can't afford to support it I would argue that the program is an unnecessary expense. After all to some extent too many taxpayers are paying for it.

Or, you can get the kind of job an undergrad degree used to provide with no degree at all - just demonstrated skill in a field like IT.

I agree there are far more students in college than will ever benefit financially from the experience. And, at some point (if they haven't already), states will recognize this and be faced with a tough choice. Because if all those students were to leave school, our economy would not be able to absorb them into the workplace.

Now, it might not be those students themselves who would be unemployed. Probably, they would push some other marginal employees out of their jobs. Either way, we will have a lot more unemployment and underemployment, even as we continue to import illegal immigrants to do the jobs Americans won't do.

It's not easy for economists to calculate the cost to society of eliminating unnecessary colleges compared to the cost of keeping them open. So we keep kicking that can down the road.


There is no such job.

What you mean is illegal immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans will not do for poverty wages.

Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.

Funny, from the time I was old enough to handle a knife without removing a digit through college and even after going to work for the fire service I would work for a family friend every year starting about this time and running through a day or so before New Years cutting collards for market. It was the busiest part of their season and they always brought in extra help. Everybody who worked with me was an American citizen, most were high school and college aged kids looking to make a little cash. He'd pay decent based on experience and ability, but nobody was making minimum wage. I was making decent money because I could supervise and could run all of the equipment. Then one year when I hadn't received the usual phone call I called my friend and asked what the deal was. He sheepishly admitted that he had brought in migrants because they would do the hard, 12 hour a day job in the elements for exactly minimum wage and that was the only way he could financially compete with the people who were bringing in illegals who would do it for less than minimum wage.

Americans aren't lazy like the illegal alien apologists try to portray and you are doing here. Americans will do anything as long as you pay them fairly. I don't see many Americans willing to live 15 deep in a ramshackle singlewide with no running water and stealing electricity from the neighbor via a drop cord to do a job for less than minimum wage like the illegals will.
12-12-2017 01:02 PM
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ken d Offline
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Posts: 8,103
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 308
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Post: #33
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 01:02 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:48 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 04:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well Wedge the states are strapped. Continuing those policies is just plain stupid. Besides the numbers of undergraduate degrees today mean little. Now if you want the kind of job that you or I got with an undergrad diploma you need post graduate work. A BA gets you precious little over what a high school diploma earned you 30 to 40 years ago.

I would postulate that we have too damned many small colleges funded by the states. The privates are their own matter. I see it as nothing more than subsidizing a failed educational model. And if the schools can't field a football or basketball program that can pay for itself it seems to me the conventional wisdom that it attracts students is specious. If enough former students cared about the football program it would be supported. If they can't afford to support it I would argue that the program is an unnecessary expense. After all to some extent too many taxpayers are paying for it.

Or, you can get the kind of job an undergrad degree used to provide with no degree at all - just demonstrated skill in a field like IT.

I agree there are far more students in college than will ever benefit financially from the experience. And, at some point (if they haven't already), states will recognize this and be faced with a tough choice. Because if all those students were to leave school, our economy would not be able to absorb them into the workplace.

Now, it might not be those students themselves who would be unemployed. Probably, they would push some other marginal employees out of their jobs. Either way, we will have a lot more unemployment and underemployment, even as we continue to import illegal immigrants to do the jobs Americans won't do.

It's not easy for economists to calculate the cost to society of eliminating unnecessary colleges compared to the cost of keeping them open. So we keep kicking that can down the road.


There is no such job.

What you mean is illegal immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans will not do for poverty wages.

Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.

Funny, from the time I was old enough to handle a knife without removing a digit through college and even after going to work for the fire service I would work for a family friend every year starting about this time and running through a day or so before New Years cutting collards for market. It was the busiest part of their season and they always brought in extra help. Everybody who worked with me was an American citizen, most were high school and college aged kids looking to make a little cash. He'd pay decent based on experience and ability, but nobody was making minimum wage. I was making decent money because I could supervise and could run all of the equipment. Then one year when I hadn't received the usual phone call I called my friend and asked what the deal was. He sheepishly admitted that he had brought in migrants because they would do the hard, 12 hour a day job in the elements for exactly minimum wage and that was the only way he could financially compete with the people who were bringing in illegals who would do it for less than minimum wage.

Americans aren't lazy like the illegal alien apologists try to portray and you are doing here. Americans will do anything as long as you pay them fairly. I don't see many Americans willing to live 15 deep in a ramshackle singlewide with no running water and stealing electricity from the neighbor via a drop cord to do a job for less than minimum wage like the illegals will.

Other than promoting your conservative political agenda, I'm not sure what you are doing here. There is nothing that you have said that in any way is in conflict with anything I have said. So if you are agreeing with me, what exactly is your point?
12-12-2017 02:35 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Posts: 17,663
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Post: #34
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 02:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 01:02 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:48 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  Or, you can get the kind of job an undergrad degree used to provide with no degree at all - just demonstrated skill in a field like IT.

I agree there are far more students in college than will ever benefit financially from the experience. And, at some point (if they haven't already), states will recognize this and be faced with a tough choice. Because if all those students were to leave school, our economy would not be able to absorb them into the workplace.

Now, it might not be those students themselves who would be unemployed. Probably, they would push some other marginal employees out of their jobs. Either way, we will have a lot more unemployment and underemployment, even as we continue to import illegal immigrants to do the jobs Americans won't do.

It's not easy for economists to calculate the cost to society of eliminating unnecessary colleges compared to the cost of keeping them open. So we keep kicking that can down the road.


There is no such job.

What you mean is illegal immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans will not do for poverty wages.

Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.

Funny, from the time I was old enough to handle a knife without removing a digit through college and even after going to work for the fire service I would work for a family friend every year starting about this time and running through a day or so before New Years cutting collards for market. It was the busiest part of their season and they always brought in extra help. Everybody who worked with me was an American citizen, most were high school and college aged kids looking to make a little cash. He'd pay decent based on experience and ability, but nobody was making minimum wage. I was making decent money because I could supervise and could run all of the equipment. Then one year when I hadn't received the usual phone call I called my friend and asked what the deal was. He sheepishly admitted that he had brought in migrants because they would do the hard, 12 hour a day job in the elements for exactly minimum wage and that was the only way he could financially compete with the people who were bringing in illegals who would do it for less than minimum wage.

Americans aren't lazy like the illegal alien apologists try to portray and you are doing here. Americans will do anything as long as you pay them fairly. I don't see many Americans willing to live 15 deep in a ramshackle singlewide with no running water and stealing electricity from the neighbor via a drop cord to do a job for less than minimum wage like the illegals will.

Other than promoting your conservative political agenda, I'm not sure what you are doing here. There is nothing that you have said that in any way is in conflict with anything I have said. So if you are agreeing with me, what exactly is your point?

Nothing except prove you are FOS when you talk about immigrants doing work Americans refuse to do. There's no such job.
12-12-2017 03:01 PM
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ken d Offline
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Posts: 8,103
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Post: #35
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 03:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 02:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 01:02 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 10:48 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  There is no such job.

What you mean is illegal immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans will not do for poverty wages.

Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.

Funny, from the time I was old enough to handle a knife without removing a digit through college and even after going to work for the fire service I would work for a family friend every year starting about this time and running through a day or so before New Years cutting collards for market. It was the busiest part of their season and they always brought in extra help. Everybody who worked with me was an American citizen, most were high school and college aged kids looking to make a little cash. He'd pay decent based on experience and ability, but nobody was making minimum wage. I was making decent money because I could supervise and could run all of the equipment. Then one year when I hadn't received the usual phone call I called my friend and asked what the deal was. He sheepishly admitted that he had brought in migrants because they would do the hard, 12 hour a day job in the elements for exactly minimum wage and that was the only way he could financially compete with the people who were bringing in illegals who would do it for less than minimum wage.

Americans aren't lazy like the illegal alien apologists try to portray and you are doing here. Americans will do anything as long as you pay them fairly. I don't see many Americans willing to live 15 deep in a ramshackle singlewide with no running water and stealing electricity from the neighbor via a drop cord to do a job for less than minimum wage like the illegals will.

Other than promoting your conservative political agenda, I'm not sure what you are doing here. There is nothing that you have said that in any way is in conflict with anything I have said. So if you are agreeing with me, what exactly is your point?

Nothing except prove you are FOS when you talk about immigrants doing work Americans refuse to do. There's no such job.

And yet you keep saying that there are such jobs. And you say there are such jobs for the same reasons I think there are. So who is FOS here?
12-12-2017 03:06 PM
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Kaplony Offline
Palmetto State Deplorable
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Posts: 17,663
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 1472
I Root For: Newberry
Location: SC
Post: #36
RE: What would happen if the NCAA stopped sponsoring football altogether?
(12-12-2017 03:06 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 03:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 02:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 01:02 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  Which is it? If Americans won't do jobs that pay poverty wages, then there are, in fact, such jobs. Some of those jobs are still here, largely by necessity. Harvesting crops by hand is a job that's hard to export, so it is done in the US by migrant labor. Others, like textile sweatshops, can be moved abroad, and so they have been.

Funny, from the time I was old enough to handle a knife without removing a digit through college and even after going to work for the fire service I would work for a family friend every year starting about this time and running through a day or so before New Years cutting collards for market. It was the busiest part of their season and they always brought in extra help. Everybody who worked with me was an American citizen, most were high school and college aged kids looking to make a little cash. He'd pay decent based on experience and ability, but nobody was making minimum wage. I was making decent money because I could supervise and could run all of the equipment. Then one year when I hadn't received the usual phone call I called my friend and asked what the deal was. He sheepishly admitted that he had brought in migrants because they would do the hard, 12 hour a day job in the elements for exactly minimum wage and that was the only way he could financially compete with the people who were bringing in illegals who would do it for less than minimum wage.

Americans aren't lazy like the illegal alien apologists try to portray and you are doing here. Americans will do anything as long as you pay them fairly. I don't see many Americans willing to live 15 deep in a ramshackle singlewide with no running water and stealing electricity from the neighbor via a drop cord to do a job for less than minimum wage like the illegals will.

Other than promoting your conservative political agenda, I'm not sure what you are doing here. There is nothing that you have said that in any way is in conflict with anything I have said. So if you are agreeing with me, what exactly is your point?

Nothing except prove you are FOS when you talk about immigrants doing work Americans refuse to do. There's no such job.

And yet you keep saying that there are such jobs. And you say there are such jobs for the same reasons I think there are. So who is FOS here?

Who was picking the crops before immigrants came in and picked them for poverty wages?

Who was working at the chicken processing plants? BTW, I know of at least one plant here who only hires American citizens now because they actually show up for work and stick around instead of moving on without notice to the next job.

Who was cutting grass?

Who was roofing houses?

Americans were.

This myth that they do the jobs that Americans will not do is just that, a myth.
12-12-2017 04:15 PM
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